Thread: The New Defender

Originally Posted by AK83

some light facts on this apparent requirement for LR to make a low cost cab chassis version of the new D.

In Europe commerical vehicle sales:
Ford: 318,718 (256, 099 of which were Transits)
Mercedes: 179,080 (99,937 of which were Sprinters)
Renault: 289,236 (85,315 Kangoo, 78,303 Master, 77,355 Trafic)

Look at Toyota's commercial vehicles sales by comparison ... how many Hiluxes in AUS? .. 50K per year?
In Europe, total commercial vehicles sales = 47,258.

So maybe total sales of utes in Europe may have equated to 47,259 all up or something.

Question, if you had to spend 100 million dollars to develop a particular type of vehicle for world markets .. would waste that on an insignificant market potential of say .. 30,000 units in a dreamtime scenario .. or go for a more lucrative European type commercial market where numbers are 10x the size of ours?

At about $80L the Merc X types are not doing too well, I think I saw they may have hit 1K units this year, and Mercedes is thinking of ceasing it!

Now if you were running LR, and your primary concern was to produce a return on the $ invested in the new vehicle .. seriously would you bother to spend an extra X million $s to develop a chassis ute/cab version that may potentially sell 1000 units per year?
That'd take say 20 years with zero additional development budget, just to balance out the initial developement cost.

People that continuously make these replies that LR need a cab/chassis variant for our market are seriously deluded!
I thin LR knows it's market potential better than the starry eyed local marketing gurus think they know .. locally they could have easily ignored us and potentially made more profit per unit overall for the company.
Must be remembered, they're not here for our amusement .. you don't like it .. get a tojo!
Their priority is to sell as many as quickly to the largest markets first .. those being European.

They don't and have never had the ethos to sell in large volumes to the US market .. that's F150, Toyota Tundra stomping ground .. nothing like it ever built by LR .. not even the cab overs .. which aren't the same thing anyhow.

What they've done seems to be clear and level headed .. and to have had an additional cab chassis model which would only have served to add to the overall cost of the entire range makes zero sense.

Hopefully they'll prove themselves to be both capable and reliable .. when all the hiluxes are resting at the wreckers due to lack of demand re their DPF issues.

We're a small market, and until we change our buying habits and buy sensible vehicles, our wishes will basically be ignored by all but Toyota .. sell you the same stuff they sold you 30 years ago.
So it seems that most manufacturers have 'given' the Aussie market to Toyota to do what they like with .. and we're too ignorant to realise we're paying premiums for garbage vehicle designs(or more accurately non designs).

Personally, I like this new Defer(so far) .. not enjoying it's front styling, but even at $80K-$100K for a new version .. not unreasonable given what it has.
How much is an air suspended 8 speed auto Prado selling for again?

ps. had a dual cab long ago .. never again,. far too impractical for it's supposed intended use. Much prefer a transit style van, if I ever needed it for some reason. Much more practical for every day use.

anyhow .. thanks BR for your input so far. Always good to have a read of the latest.

Wow, you make a good point with facts to back it up, cheers, around 70percent of the tradies i know socially run vans for work, space/security. No worries, plenty of good contributors here, thanks to all.

Excellent post AK83, thanks for sharing those insights. The ute market here is bonkers, I agree. Although not as bonkers as USA pickup market! A Ranger or Hilux looks like a toy car over there. The massive ute culture is starting to creep I to Australia too.

Bring on the 4x4 Land Rover van! I’d buy one. Hopefully the new commercial Defender 130 is reasonably priced and comes in a hybrid when it’s released.

Has anyone got they’re head around the blind-spot panel? Does it open? Is it optional? It looks wierd to me.

Originally Posted by 16PMark

Cool pic, and not a bad colour.
Shows how big they actually are, with 'him' in the driver's seat. (Smiling proudly)

His even dressed like a new defisco driver

Originally Posted by SpudHeadTed

Has anyone got they’re head around the blind-spot panel? Does it open? Is it optional? It looks wierd to me.

It can be deleted on the 90 but it covers the C pillar on the 110.

Originally Posted by AK83

Question, if you had to spend 100 million dollars to develop a particular type of vehicle for world markets .. would waste that on an insignificant market potential of say .. 30,000 units in a dreamtime scenario .. or go for a more lucrative European type commercial market where numbers are 10x the size of ours?
....
People that continuously make these replies that LR need a cab/chassis variant for our market are seriously deluded!
.....
anyhow .. thanks BR for your input so far. Always good to have a read of the latest.

Good points AK83 and yes being a LR tragic can be delusional. My Toyota and Ford friends tell me this all the time.

New Defender is brilliant and no doubt will out sell the 43,000 Discovery’s that they sold in 2018. They could even exceed 100,000 New Defender sales making it more successful than the Range Rover Evoque or Discovery Sport. Assuming of course they can recover the development costs of now 12 luxury SUV’s across JLR and one model does not just take sales off another.

Many of us are just annoyed that LR have decided to concentrate on pretty much one segment of the market when they used to bridge the full 4WD market - work, leisure, and luxury.

And yes - I get that they probably don’t want tradies or farmers walking into their sales rooms or bringing them back dirty for servicing. Must have been upsetting for some clientele. The commercial side really needs to stand alone.

It will be successful but a bitter pill to swallow now that there is no low cost entry point into the LR product range. Even the successful Freelander has gone up market.

I remain a loyal and delusional supporter, but gee the Ford Ranger is looking good.

Originally Posted by DiscoDB

Good points AK83 and yes being a LR tragic can be delusional. My Toyota and Ford friends tell me this all the time.

New Defender is brilliant and no doubt will out sell the 43,000 Discovery’s that they sold in 2018. They could even exceed 100,000 New Defender sales making it more successful than the Range Rover Evoque or Discovery Sport. Assuming of course they can recover the development costs of now 12 luxury SUV’s across JLR and one model does not just take sales off another.

Many of us are just annoyed that LR have decided to concentrate on pretty much one segment of the market when they used to bridge the full 4WD market - work, leisure, and luxury.

And yes - I get that they probably don’t want tradies or farmers walking into their sales rooms or bringing them back dirty for servicing. Must have been upsetting for some clientele. The commercial side really needs to stand alone.

It will be successful but a bitter pill to swallow now that there is no low cost entry point into the LR product range. Even the successful Freelander has gone up market.

I remain a loyal and delusional supporter, but gee the Ford Ranger is looking good.

I was thinking about this last night and not the right thread for this, mods move if you wish.

Do we think the price point will drop once the coil options and other options it next year? Remember more options will be able to be selected in 2020.

Add to that the 90 and the commercial.

We will most likely see as significantly lower base than we do now.

Any ideas on how low a commercial deisel coil 90 base price would be?

We have never seen a commercial in AU so don’t hold out for it.