Thread: Bull bar

Originally Posted by frantic

Lets just go back to the bible for quotes and info?
He's quoting a 12 year old report on 4 cars ,17years old(2006 lowlux) with cheapest supplier bars!
But i guess Toyota and BHP stopped using bars? ooops no, even the latest electric troopies have them!
Ohh but they also cover the corners, and depending upon which EV troopie pic you look at their either plastic fugly or an ARB steel.
Toyota Australia, BHP unveil new battery electric-converted Land Cruiser for underground mining use 2021 Toyota Land Cruiser 70 Converted EV - Paul Tan's Automotive News

Also ARB and TJM amongst other good manufacturers do impact tests to match up with crush zones and airbags,
Best Bull Bars | Fitting & Installation | ARB 4x4 Accessories
Engineering ADR-compliant gear

Bullbars are pretty important when you do a lot of outback travel or need a winch or live in Skippy country. But the idea that TJM and ARB sort things so there is no change in vehicle crash performance is doubtful. They don't actually crash the cars they make bars for, with bars on and of course it would be too expensive to do so. I recall when I put the TJM on the D2 (ADR compliant bar) the very very light alluminium accordion style crush cans came off and the very heavy steel plates with a few corrugations went in...no way that didn't change things. Now I know they get better at the simulations and computer assisted engineering over the years but I just can't see short of testing the bar on the given vehicle how they know for sure it will deform at the correct rate to trigger the bags and pretensioners etc correctly (and a tiny fraction out can be catastrophic). And then there are the changes to forces that effect the offset crash design - that is a given thinking about the bars that transfer the forces.

Now in the past I liked the idea of spreading the load over 2 chassis rails in an offset crash, but these days I wonder whether that is a good idea with the very clever new vehicle designs.

It's not to say I wouldn't get a bar if I needed it for roos and winch on a modern vehicle, but I would (and have for my modern ute) think very hard first knowing it's not all pros. Cheers

Originally Posted by scarry

I am amazed he is called the "Auto Expert"

Self titled me thinks.

Originally Posted by ozscott

Bullbars are pretty important when you do a lot of outback travel or need a winch or live in Skippy country. But the idea that TJM and ARB sort things so there is no change in vehicle crash performance is doubtful. They don't actually crash the cars they make bars for, with bars on and of course it would be too expensive to do so. I recall when I put the TJM on the D2 (ADR compliant bar) the very very light alluminium accordion style crush cans came off and the very heavy steel plates with a few corrugations went in...no way that didn't change things. Now I know they get better at the simulations and computer assisted engineering over the years but I just can't see short of testing the bar on the given vehicle how they know for sure it will deform at the correct rate to trigger the bags and pretensioners etc correctly (and a tiny fraction out can be catastrophic). And then there are the changes to forces that effect the offset crash design - that is a given thinking about the bars that transfer the forces.

Now in the past I liked the idea of spreading the load over 2 chassis rails in an offset crash, but these days I wonder whether that is a good idea with the very clever new vehicle designs.

It's not to say I wouldn't get a bar if I needed it for roos and winch on a modern vehicle, but I would (and have for my modern ute) think very hard first knowing it's not all pros. Cheers

I can see how they can…

ARB for example - are given crash pulse testing data by the vehicle manufacturers. This is then fed into the test jigs - to meet requirements crash pulse must be maintained.

Remember alloy was replaced with steel, but so was the plastic etc. so everything changes and is accounted for.

Chassis zones etc are still also all unaltered - so it still folds the same behind the bar.


And as pointed out - all mine LVs still have ROPs of some type and Bars!!! I’m looking at over a 50 of them (LVs) at this very moment.

Originally Posted by ChookD2

Self titled me thinks.

Yep. Met him decades ago. Just an angry little man.
Lacking substance and has a huge (enormous) chip on his shoulder.

His channel is predominantly click bait

Originally Posted by Tombie

I can see how they can…

ARB for example - are given crash pulse testing data by the vehicle manufacturers. This is then fed into the test jigs - to meet requirements crash pulse must be maintained.

Remember alloy was replaced with steel, but so was the plastic etc. so everything changes and is accounted for.

Chassis zones etc are still also all unaltered - so it still folds the same behind the bar.


And as pointed out - all mine LVs still have ROPs of some type and Bars!!! I’m looking at over a 50 of them (LVs) at this very moment.

I see Mike. Thanks. How do they account for the differences in forces caused by the bar in offset crashes? They would have to make the bar so that it transferred no more force force than the original front of the vehicle. Be interested to see how that would be achieved.

Cheers

Originally Posted by ozscott

I see Mike. Thanks. How do they account for the differences in forces caused by the bar in offset crashes? They would have to make the bar so that it transferred no more force force than the original front of the vehicle. Be interested to see how that would be achieved.

Cheers

ARBassesses each vehicle's frontal crush characteristics and replicates the crush rate into the design of each air bag compatible bull bar and its mounting system. This achieves maximum possible vehicle and passenger protection without affecting the crash pulse.

Best Bull Bars | Fitting & Installation | ARB 4x4 Accessories

Originally Posted by Tins

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Best Bull Bars | Fitting & Installation | ARB 4x4 Accessories

Probably just me not being an engineer or physicist experienced in the sort of physics involved but I cannot see how the building of the bar and crash cans for an offset crash can replicate exactly the standard vehicle in an offset test buy hey, sounds good that they say they can and as i have a BB on my D2 from TJM (who claim similar things) happy days. Cheers. PS do they claim to do the design to meet offset?

I believe you will find the ADR 73/00 offset requirements only apply to passenger cars with a GVM less than 2.5t.