Thread: About to lose my licence

Originally Posted by trout1105

The alcohol limits in WA are;
Over 0.05 to under 0.08 is driving whilst under the influence and anything over 0.08 is drunken driving, Wardy was 0.086 So he was Drunk and Not just a little bit "Tipsy"
Am I "Perfect" ?
NO I have been busted for D.D. in the past which cost me my licence and a hefty fine at the time.
Did I consider the fine and the 6 Month suspension to be too harsh? Of course I did But it had the effect that I haven't had an illegal B.A.C in over 20 odd years since
I am pretty sure that just about everyone is aware how a persons sex, weight and metabolism will affect their B.A.C. so pulling the "I'm only a skinny guy/girl officer " is NO excuse.

I guess that you completely missed the point. BAC in MANY jurisdictions in the world is still .08. NSW changed, as did WA, some time ago. Has changing it down had an appreciable affect on the road toll? Going by reports in the last month I would argue that it hasn't.

You also missed my point about .00. If they are serious about the road toll issue then .00 is really the only way, as nobody knows when they reach .05. I tried to point that out in my little story, but I guess you missed that too.

I find it very strange that people accept the totally arbitrary nature of a BAC legislation that does not accept, not at all, that different people are affected differently by alcohol intake, and yet being impaired by alcohol or, for example, amphetamines, is used often in a defence of a homicide.

I'm sure your driving record makes you feel proud, Trout. I will tell you that I beat you by 30 years, and I have NEVER been done for DUI. Perhaps I have been lucky, as a drinking culture is very definitely a result of 4 years in the Army in the '70s, and a life in construction in Qld, and in many and varied occupations since then. Drinks on Friday after work were the stuff of legends.

I have posted on here before, and I will do it again now. .00 is the only answer to this, and, as I have said before also, there is no politician in the country who will advocate that. So, I challenge anyone, you included Trout, to tell me the Governments and the Police are seriously trying to contain the road toll through their "efforts". I will bet that you cannot demonstrate that they are.

Wardy got done. He's copped to that, and I for one thank him for sharing. His point about serves is something all of us should take note of. My daughter, who used to manage a Hotel, tells me all the time about the RSA laws now. Bar staff MUST count drinks being served here in Vic. That is an incredibly big ask for someone serving drinks in a busy bar, especially one with live music. But, they have liability. As does nearly everyone else.

I am not disagreeing with your position, Trout. I am merely pointing out that an arbitrary line in the sand position is not necessarily the right way to go. I feel for Wardy, as the penalty he faces is far worse than his crime. Some fancy lawyer in his Beemer would find a way around it, or just pay. Wardy can't do that. So, the law is iniquitous. Of course, all laws are.

We need laws. I am in no way an anarchist ( Jan would have argued with me about that, but she is no longer here ), but I believe laws should be fair, and I also believe every person should be given the right to speak in their defence and get a hearing. That is NOT what happens in Victoria.

You say"I am pretty sure that just about everyone is aware how a persons sex, weight and metabolism will affect their B.A.C. so pulling the "I'm only a skinny guy/girl officer " is NO excuse."

Sure, but who offered it as one? I was merely pointing out that EVERYONE is different, and the law does not recognise that. There have been Formula One drivers that drove after drinking ( James Hunt comes to mind ). BAC is not as arbitrary as 60 KMh, for example. and yet nearly all jurisdictions apply a % leeway on speeding fines. Except Victoria, of course, who changed the % thing to a 3 K leeway. Dunno who on here is good at maths, but 3 k in a 40 zone is NOT the same as 3 K in a 110 zone.

Everything about the laws here in Vic are about revenue. The former Treasurer of Vic, who became Premier by default, John Brumby ( disclaimer: I was at school with John, and his brother was my best friend in those days ), bragged openly about his measures to help "balance" the budget. Not once in his speech did he mention the 'lowering' of the road toll. Yes, he mentioned the road toll, but it was purely emotive jargon. Things have not changed here.

If you insist on your views, I would suggest that you look at how the UK deal with the road toll. I would then suggest that you look at their toll compared to ours. Then I would suggest you look at the size of the place, and the population, and the number of vehicular movements they experience, and consider that they are where many of us came from, and come back and tell us what you think.

I have spent Many years in the Mining game and if you don't blow 0.00 at the start of your shift then that is the end of your job, I agree that 0.00 WORKS.
All we now have to do is to convince the government to change the law, Good luck with that.
Even IF 0.00 was the limit there would Still be people that would "Run the Gauntlet".
It NOT about changing the Law it's More about changing peoples attitudes that will help to stop drunks killing/injuring themselves and others on the road.
BTW I too spent time in the Army in the 70's and then went professional fishing and working on the Mines all these occupations promote a drinking culture.
Yes I still love to have a few beers with my Mates But I am not stupid enough to drive even if I have only had 1 or 3 beers.
I may or may not be over the legal limit after 1-3 beers But I can most definitely say that my driving ability is far better when I have had Zero beers.

it used to be .008 in wa Those in charge didn’t want to change it, didn’t think it necessary
It was the feds that made them change it to .005

Originally Posted by trout1105

I have spent Many years in the Mining game and if you don't blow 0.00 at the start of your shift then that is the end of your job, I agree that 0.00 WORKS.
All we now have to do is to convince the government to change the law, Good luck with that.

I made the point about government in this thread, and in many others..

Originally Posted by trout1105

Even IF 0.00 was the limit there would Still be people that would "Run the Gauntlet".
It NOT about changing the Law it's More about changing peoples attitudes that will help to stop drunks killing/injuring themselves and others on the road..

Indeed. But .00 takes ANY doubt out of the equation, does it not? If I drove right now, in my grief and lonelieness, I would bet I could pass a RBT. Here, in Vic. My situation would be that I have had a drink, I am emotionally ****ed up, my driving would not be ok, bur my experience of RBTs is that I would pass. This is by no way definitive, but it is my experience. I would addd that I have not been counting 'standard drinks' even a little bit, and I have had a very emotional day.

Originally Posted by trout1105

Yes I still love to have a few beers with my Mates But I am not stupid enough to drive even if I have only had 1 or 3 beers.
I may or may not be over the legal limit after 1-3 beers But I can most definitely say that my driving ability is far better when I have had Zero beers.

Is it one, or is it three, beers, Trout? When do you call it? Do you know what your BAC is at that point? Do you understand that you are not the best person to judge?

As for an individual's driving, I have met Wardy. Legal or not ( can of worms right there ), I would rather be in the car with him at .08 than in the car with my daughter with just one drink, when she would be about .001.

This could go on and on. Go for it if you wish. I don't care. I would hope I could open some people's eyes, but I doubt it.

Is it one, or is it three, beers, Trout? When do

you

call it? Do you know what your BAC is at that point? Do you understand that you are not the best person to judge?

1, 3, 5 or ten beers it doesn't matter, I won't drive even after only 1 beer.
I do know that after 3 Carlton Mids in an hour I am just under 0.05 as I have self tested myself Many times just out of curiosity But I still won't drive.
All minesites have a self testing machine available, Maybe it would be a good idea if EVERY Pub had one to it could help.
Having NO drinks before driving is the BEST method of knowing what my BAC is Exactly , So yes I am the best person to judge my BAC before I drive.

As for an individual's driving, I have met Wardy. Legal or not ( can of worms right there ), I would rather be in the car with him at .08 than in the car with my daughter with just one

drink

, when she would be about .001.

Have you ever been severely injured in an MVA because of another drivers irresponsibility?
I Have.
Taking chances driving drunk, dangerously or even tired is irresponsible, selfish and thoughtless behaviour behind the wheel that can cost people their lives and their health.
It can also cost innocent people their jobs and livelihood also a lifetime of disfigurement and pain, Ask me how I know this.

This is why I have NO compassion for people that get busted for DD, speeding or dangerous driving OK.

Originally Posted by johntins

... ....
Indeed. But .00 takes ANY doubt out of the equation, does it not?
.. .... ...

I'm not sure it removes all doubt.

I know there are guidelines about how quickly alcohol is removed from the body, but it varies.

There is still the potential for doubt. If you have one beer, how long do you wait until you know you are 0.0? If you have a glass of wine with dinner, do you wait 30 minutes before you know you will blow zero, or one hour or the next day?

Even if the limit was 0.0, even with the best will in the world people could still miscalculate.

I'm not arguing about whether 0.0 is a good idea; just pointing out that it is still possible to unintentionally get it wrong.

My view on all of this has two fronts. If we want to stop drink driving why not make manufacturers put an interlock device in all cars and the driver has to blow into each time the car is started. Its a pain but then the police would not have to patrol booze buses as much. Also we hear speed kills. Why not have all cars made with navigation communicating with a governor to restrict the car to the speed limit for the road they are on or the time of day (ie school times and zones). Then we would not have speeding fines and police and others could concentrate on other serious crime. Oh I forgot, the government needs the revenue to support their perks and retirement packages! I am as guilty as anyone here. I have driven past booze buses clearly over the limit. As I live in inner city it seems the cops set the booze buses to catch people leaving the city not coming in!

Originally Posted by wardy1

In October last year I was caught at an RBT. I Blew 0.086. I had enjoyed 3 glasses of white wine 2 hours before. A warning to all, when we drink at home (according to the officer), the drinks we drink are substantially larger than those we may be served at a licensed establishment. Most he says are nearly double a standard drink. So effectively I may have had 6 standard drinks...... over the period of time, most of us would say we’re ok right?

WRONG

Now I’m prepared to cop what is coming to me, which will be a 6mth cancellation plus a fine. I’m not denying the charge. The reason for posting this is totally separate from this.

As a consequence of a conviction/cancellation I will lose my job. In Victoria there is no “licence to work”, which means I lose my job immediately. This in turn means zero income which in turn means that I will lose the place I live. Many here know that I’m single these days so there is no other income to pay the bills. Hence, I lose my home and whatever else.

I see people who have committed crimes against others or property and they get good behaviour bonds etc. I commit a Minor offence and stand to lose the lot!

Is this fair? Is it justice?

BTW, I’ve been driving almost 44 years and never had more than a speeding fine <10k over.

Until it happens to you, you don’t think too much about it I guess, but the penalty I now face seems way outside the crime.
Interested to hear your opinions

MINOR OFFENCE?

Most people don't see drinking and driving a MINOR OFFENCE!
You may not have felt drunk, but your reactions will have been dulled.
NO SYMPATHY WHAT SO EVER!
Maybe next time you decide to have a couple of glasses of wine you WON'T decide to drive!