Thread: Buying a P38

Originally Posted by jsp

Thats a big can of worms and a personal taste thing. The 322 is easily the step up from the P38 that the P38 is from the hard dash classic.

Even given, I miss driving my P38 daily, and also my worn tattered old P38 seat which fit my backside perfectly is just as comfy as the non lux seats in my 322. my wife likes the 322 and says I should be selling my P38

The only other thing I can throw in is try and find a P38 which has been undercover most of its life. Mine spent most of its life parked during most days in the sun in the work car park, not only is paintwork an issue, but all plastics exposed to sunlight are also now proving very troublesome. Including a very warped dash. Things snap and crack so easily, but then most plastics which were out of the direct sun still seem to be fairly solid, I guess its UV breakdown.

I feel I have looked after mine well, but its a mess compared to lots of them I see in the 200-250 k's range and mines done just over 260.

personally, put in the audi heater matrix with clamp on fittings, somehow jerry rig and fit in the eas valve block from the L322 (simple plastic long life low leak masterpiece compared to the aluminum brick on the p38), and some how take away the becm's ability to go into lockdown mode and I think you would have a very reliable car - and I dont think those things are impossible at all.

PS - I put my hand up to say Hard Range Paul's a top bloke as well helped me out a few times now!

sorry for low level 'hijack' This is indeed very interesting development! Probably needs a separate thread ... Have not seen the L322 option mentioned anywhere else...is it really that much of an improvement?

(Have seen reference to the audio heater matrix in the US sites...but which model Audi?)

Originally Posted by Hoges

sorry for low level 'hijack' This is indeed very interesting development! Propbably needs a separate thread ... Have not seen the L322 option mentioned anywhere else...is it really that much of an improvement?

Improvement is an understatement..

I'm blown away at the quality difference between both.. Totally different cars.

Ive had my L322 for a year now.. Still love it.. next car will be another L322

Camo

Originally Posted by Hoges

sorry for low level 'hijack' This is indeed very interesting development! Propbably needs a separate thread ... Have not seen the L322 option mentioned anywhere else...is it really that much of an improvement?

I have had no luck rebuilding two P38 valve blocks I have, every time I have ended up with some form of issue. its most likely my own incompetence

The L322 one if plumbed in would be a vast improvement, i haven't sat down and compared the two systems to see if you could splice in the 322 kit.

The only issue I can see going wrong with the 322 block is rusty springs, and maybe o-ring's but the fact they are in plastic which is that bit more maleable than the aluminium and the fact its under the car like the classic's was keeping it out of the engine bay heat I think means o-rings are not an issue.

if water gets in the system the valve return springs can go rusty and cause the valve to seize.

here's a pic of a 322 valve block in bits



also the air lines are connected by a nut with an insert o-ring, its just a far superior and simpler way of doing it, and again allot is to be said for having all that gear away from engine bay heat as the original valve block on my classic gives no issues thus far at 240k's.

Still there's allot of P38's on the road so the eas can't be all that bad

The L322 is still a bit out of my price range. I don't know how true this is, but have been told that the 4.4 BMW V8 is a non- serviceable engine, meaning you cannot get a lot of internal parts apart from the head gasket. Wouldn't surprise me, as engine recycling is a big viable thing in Germany, not here though.

If i was getting one, I wouldn't go any later than a 2005 model, as you'll be pushing to get any aftermarket accessories I.e Bullbars, mud terrain tyres etc. I know today's model you can almost forget about going off-road with them as the rim sizes are too big for any tyre options. The Discovery has really taken over where the Range Rovers left off, some are even saying that P38 was the last of the true Range Rovers. There's a point somewhere.

Originally Posted by redandy3575

The L322 is still a bit out of my price range. I don't know how true this is, but have been told that the 4.4 BMW V8 is a non- serviceable engine, meaning you cannot get a lot of internal parts apart from the head gasket. Wouldn't surprise me, as engine recycling is a big viable thing in Germany, not here though.

If i was getting one, I wouldn't go any later than a 2005 model, as you'll be pushing to get any aftermarket accessories I.e Bullbars, mud terrain tyres etc. I know today's model you can almost forget about going off-road with them as the rim sizes are too big for any tyre options. The Discovery has really taken over where the Range Rovers left off, some are even saying that P38 was the last of the true Range Rovers. There's a point somewhere.

Re. the BMW engines...I've seen posts in other fora where big end bearings etc are virtually unobtainable. As mentioned previously, there's a well known LR parts bloke in the Bris area who describes BMW and derivatives (L322 etc) as "one owner cars" ... keep 'em for 80k km then move on... for exactly the reason you state...

The plastic EAS unit in the L322 worries me as much as the alloy unit in the P38. Porting the L322 valve block to a P38 would also have challenges in terms of cross-linked EAS, driver module, CAN-Bus etc. I dare say not worth it.
The use of screw-in air-fittings however has a lot of merit. It would not be difficult on the P38 EAS Valve block with a thread cutter (note to self - check this out as a way to do away with dodgy collets).

I can certainly understand the bias some folks have to the L322 (but only if they have driven/owned a P38) as I felt the same when moving between RRC's and the P38. I have purposely not spent any significant time behind the wheel of a L322 or RR Sport for that very reason.... I'm not done with the P38 yet... love it, drive it most days, and there are still enhancements and add-ons that I want to see in production before I get distracted/ obsessed with another model Rangie.

Andy has a TD6 L322 and it is a lovely car to drive, looks great and I reckon it would give my modified P38 Hard Rangie a good run for its money off-road. It is not for me yet, but I do respect the folks who choose this over other Land Rovers. Andy has done some impressive stuff to the L322 in the time he has had it... one day they may become Hard Range "bespoke stuff"... snorkel, bullbar, sliders etc.

Some people have the very unfortunate experience with their P38's of buying one that has been neglected in terms of EAS maintenance items (Valve Block, compressor and air-springs) which leads to the impression they are unreliable. Pre-99 models are getting more Brake Modulator issues (due to the plastic discs) and liner/gasket issues are common in alloy engines (not just Rover).

Here's an recent example of a situation that could have led to tears if neglected:
My wife mentioned that her P38 was riding rough and the "light thingy on the dash" was flashing on her way to work (translated as EAS not reaching desired height). A quick look at the EAS Emergency Bypass Kit showed the tank was not at full pressure (> 140psi) indicating a leak or compressor not working efficiently. No obvious leaks using a spray bottle. Pulled out the compressor and checked the piston seal... sure enough, it looked pretty flat and offered little resistance to the cylinder. Swapped for a new piston seal and the whole thing was done in less than 30 minutes. Car lifting quickly, Wifey happy again... so me fed, clothed and happy too

The P38 is not for the faint-hearted, poser or lazy person. It is a member of the family and demands attention like a dog or child. Neglect it and you will pay the price later.

Cheers, Paul.

Paul, the Autobiography in Sydney has gone up on price by $3k! Better photos also reveal the bonnet and roof paint is a real mess. That one's out. Appears there are more HSEs for sale in Melb which also seem in better nick. Gah!

FWIW: According to some vintage car buffs with whom I have a passing acquaintance, Adelaide is the best place to find second hand vehicles ...especially those which have been there since new... Canberra is next and then Melbourne. It's all to do with the weather apparently and the usually lower relative humidity... Also Adelaide and Canberra have better roads generally so less wear 'n' tear...