Premium unleaded?

**solmanic** · 18th November 2010, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by garrycol

Isn't Fuelstar one of the products banned about 6 months ago from sale due to unsubstantiated or false claims of performance.

Could be. Like I said, they seem to have copped a bagging because of their claims of improved economy but that has nothing to do with their original intended use which is as a lead replacement fuel additive alternative. Maybe their marketing boffins decided to chase the volume consumer market by making these claims and now they have been crucified for it.

If they no longer exist then surely someone is making an alternative. The logic behind using tin as a lubrication additive in unleaded fuel makes sense. I was told that when "super" fuel was introduced they originally tried to use tin but couldn't find any way of suspending the particles in the fuel so opted for lead. The tin cannister gets around this problem by releasing the particles into the fuel as it passes through. It's pretty low-tech but surely at least that aspect of the Fuelstar's performance was easy to verify.

**mildred** · 18th November 2010, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by garrycol

Isn't Fuelstar one of the products banned about 6 months ago from sale due to unsubstantiated or false claims of performance.

II have not heard about that Garry?
My fuelstar's have been fitted for years.
The use of tin used to create a cushion for valves is a well know and proven science, used in the second world war. It was developed to use the very low octane Russian fuel for use in the allied tanks etc.
After the war, improvements in fuel refining led to the use of lead and the tin method was abandoned. then of course with leaded fuel being phased out the fuel-star device came back into its own.
That is all I know about fuel-star, the technology does work, but I never heard of it helping with economy?

**Lotz-A-Landies** · 18th November 2010, 12:41 PM

It would be pretty easy to check. Accurately weigh the tin canister, force about 10,000 litres fresh unleaded fuel through the canister and see if the canister still weighs the same. If it does, then the clams are false.

**101RRS** · 18th November 2010, 01:12 PM

Fuelstar as a brand has not yet been banned but similar products have been such as Fitch.

However has been proven not to work
Fuelstar device no fuel saver, says Commissioner | Perth Now

Another fuel scam hits WA - ABC Perth - Australian Broadcasting Corporation

**mildred** · 18th November 2010, 05:09 PM

I did not buy this device many years ago as a fuel saving or an emissions saving device.

The technology is very simple and does what is claimed, the tin leaches off the pellets and provides a cushioning effect to protect valve seat recession in lieu of lead introduced into the fuel.

That is all is does and with my vehicles that it is fitted to, has been a success.

I dont care what some commission in Perth says ,

I have the ongoing proof in my cars and that to me , is all that matters.

Originally Posted by garrycol

Fuelstar as a brand has not yet been banned but similar products have been such as Fitch.

However has been proven not to work
Fuelstar device no fuel saver, says Commissioner | Perth Now

Another fuel scam hits WA - ABC Perth - Australian Broadcasting Corporation

**mildred** · 18th November 2010, 05:25 PM

Do you have access to unlimited fuel for testing.
If u do then my shed is yours, lets get this test in motion .
Has any testing like the one that you advocate ever been done.
Seems like truthful test and that would be the proof in the pudding ?
tin or not to tin, that is the question to suffer the slings and arrows of misfortune or drive a landie with a fuel-cat is your fate...

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

It would be pretty easy to check. Accurately weigh the tin canister, force about 10,000 litres fresh unleaded fuel through the canister and see if the canister still weighs the same. If it does, then the clams are false.

..at

**isuzurover** · 19th November 2010, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by solmanic

Correct! I ALWAYS ask the servo where their fuel comes from when filling up the Alfa if I am using one I don't know.

I would imagine your alfa has an alloy head, and therefore by definition has hardened valve seats. So it doesn't need lead (or snake oil).

What form is the tin? If it is elemental tin then the device likely has no effect on VSR.

**bee utey** · 19th November 2010, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by isuzurover

I would imagine your alfa has an alloy head, and therefore by definition has hardened valve seats.

Ergh. Lotsa alloy head engines have soft(ish) seats. Datsun L16-L28 engines, Toyota 2RZ-FE, Nissan KA24E to just name a few...

I know a bloke in Sydney runs his 6 cyl P76 for 10 years on unleaded and fuelstar, hasn't burnt a valve yet, so he believes it works. Not that I believe its a particularly good idea, I'd rather have the head done properly if needed.

**isuzurover** · 19th November 2010, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by bee utey

Ergh. Lotsa alloy head engines have soft(ish) seats. Datsun L16-L28 engines, Toyota 2RZ-FE, Nissan KA24E to just name a few...

I know a bloke in Sydney runs his 6 cyl P76 for 10 years on unleaded and fuelstar, hasn't burnt a valve yet, so he believes it works. Not that I believe its a particularly good idea, I'd rather have the head done properly if needed.

I bet they are still significantly harder than cast iron.

A sample size of 1 doesn't prove much. I was working with refinery R&D engineers/chemists when LRP was being formulated. They showed me a bunch of research which showed that it takes up to 25000 miles (US research) for significant VSR to occur once engines are switched over from leaded to unleaded. They were really surprised at how long the "lead memory" lasts.

How far has the P76 owner driven in 10 years?

**bee utey** · 19th November 2010, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by isuzurover

I bet they are still significantly harder than cast iron.

A sample size of 1 doesn't prove much. I was working with refinery R&D engineers/chemists when LRP was being formulated. They showed me a bunch of research which showed that it takes up to 25000 miles (US research) for significant VSR to occur once engines are switched over from leaded to unleaded. They were really surprised at how long the "lead memory" lasts.

How far has the P76 owner driven in 10 years?

Don't know much about the P76 just threw that in as a talking point. As far as the L series engines are concerned they recess valves much faster than Holden red motors on gas. I have seen the L series valve inserts and they are quite soft, like brass. I don't disagree with your posts other than on the degree of hardness which is quite variable. Mitsubishi 6G72 3.0 V6 engines are another, Mitsubishi had to make valve seats harder from about 1993 so the fleet buyers would still buy them for use on gas.

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