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Uhm...how does that prove anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by PAT303
If anything it only proves that people are more willing to keep Land Rovers alive over Toyos...which was always obvious.
Doesn't prove that the vast majority of Land Rovers made are still driving. Doesn't prove that at all.
On the contrary, Pat's comment does, absolutely, support the original statement. The quote is about, "still going" - as to the reasons, such as people being willing to maintain them - well, that is clearly irrelevant. Still going is still going, regardless. I would take it as a given that one needs to maintain a vehicle (to keep it going).Quote:
Originally Posted by subasurf
No it doesn't. Just because there are a lot still going, doesn't mean the vast majority are. That's the argument. We're not arguing that there are lots of classics still going.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scallops
I personally believe that for every Landy still on the road, there would be at least two knackered in bits on someone's farm.
You originally asked for some evidence - I would maintain that Pat has provided some evidence. The evidence is that we can find many more examples of vintage LR than vintage Tojos.Quote:
Originally Posted by subasurf
Your statement that, there would be at least two knackered in bits on someone's farm may in fact be quite true, which would render the original proposition false - so I do understand your point, but the reality is, it's simply another unsubstantiated comment, much like the original proposition. :D
But the fact remains - you have been presented with some evidence, at least, for the former situation.
The question was 75% of LR's are still going,the fact that you can with very little effort find and buy any number of series 2-2a-3 vehicles and you only have to look at the huge worldwide spare parts market for them same vehicle to see that many of them must be still going to support that supply.LC's built before the 1980's are slim pickings by contrast. Pat
Of course there are more vintage Landies compared to vintage Tojos. That's because no one gives a **** about old Tojos. It's not due to reliability. They're just soulless tools that get the job done. But just because there are lots of vintage Landies out there doesn't equate to there being 75% still on the road :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Scallops
Oh and yes, my comment was unsubstantiated. But that's why I said "I personally believe" as opposed to a lot of people stating things as facts.
Don't get me wrong guys. I absolutely love Land Rovers. I don't care much at all for Land Rover as a company or anything they produced after the Series. But I do love the idea of an old Landy. Heck, I own one. It's given me nothing but sheer grief but I still love her. I got her for her soul. Which we can all agree is something you can't find in a Toyota....but sadly in the year I've had her she's only given me one good offroad trip. The rest of the time she's broken....
A mate of mine,Ernie Hill from Newcastle bought a brand new troopy that had it's engine fail 10 mins after he drove out of the dealership.I worked on site last year with a bloke who's 1-FTE snapped its crank with just under 50k on it.Why did they fail,unlucky,friday cars who knows,**** happens. PatQuote:
Originally Posted by uninformed
At the risk of repeating myself - I'll say it just once more - it is, nevertheless, evidence. Evidence is just that - it doesn't imply proof. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by subasurf
very true Pat, and with the Jap cars it seems the bits that fail are way more predictable than the rovers.....Quote:
Originally Posted by PAT303
I will say that with all the Def drivers i have spoken to face to face that are using their trucks as work vehicles, ie towing loads daily/weekly and loading etc have all experienced faily major problems either engine and or gearbox, and most all have replaced axles/flanges due to spline wear, clutches go within 100k etc etc.....
these failures all well before the 400,000 mile engine design life
dont get me wrong Pat im a LR guy, have ONLY ever owned LR products, never a car nore another make......now who here can claim that?
Reliability is only one aspect of comparison. One of the major differences between the Series Landrover and the equivalent Toyota is that the Landrover is more repairable and more maintainable. To give you an idea what I mean by this, a few examples:-
In a Series Landrover, no body parts need more than two men to lift them, most can be moved by yourself. And the only tools needed to remove and replace them are a few hand tools. In the event of a front axle swivel ball needing replacing - with a Landrover you can - with a Toyota you have to replace the whole axle housing. Parts commonality or interchangeability remained typically for about twenty-five years (some longer) - in contrast, for example, when I was first using Landcruisers, among the ones we had, all sold new in 1965, there were three different diff ratios. The series Landrover workshop manuals give step by step instructions, and detail what tools you need and whether it can be done in situ.
John