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Thread: Binary File for EPROM in 14CXU Computer

  1. #11
    pibby is offline Master Silver Subscriber
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    freestyler - there's a write up i've read which says there are approx 5 fuel maps in the 14cux. you change the resistor in line with the ecu to determine which fuel map it uses. in philipa's post he shows how to do this and advises which is the NAS resistor to use. i read and also found that if you pull the resistor out altogether then by default it uses the closed loop fuel map.

    with the injected lpg system they rely on the petrol ecu. so in your case the map on your 14cux is the aus map which has no feedback. you will find it isn't quite right for your motor either - i'm assuming the 14cux is for the 3.9 motor whereas you have a 4.4. so at idle and lite throttle it will be running rich (as it will be sucking more air than a 3.9) then there will be a transition point where it goes from rich to lean with the higher throttle openings. there is no feedback so it hasn't got a clue what's going on.

    by putting in the oxygen sensors and wiring them back to the 14cux and changing the resistor you then have closed loop fuelling (please see philipa's write up).

    this is important for the injected lpg. these work by getting a petrol map then making a lpg map from it. you hook up a laptop with the lpg software on it which is connected by cable to the lpg ecu which is spliced into the petrol injector wiring (this is how it knows what the petrol injectors are doing and can cut them off when running on lpg). to collect a petrol map you just drive around and the lpg ecu takes the readings of petrol injector opening time vs vacuum (it has it's own manifold pressure sensor). once you've covered a wide enough range of throttle openings and rpm, the lpg software has some swanky algorithims which give you a first cut of a lpg map. you then proceed to drive around on lpg adjusting this lpg map till the car drive correctly.

    this bit is my interpretation of what's happening so please don't quote me! the algorithim is based on the petrol readings being correct ie the correct petrol ecu/map running the vehicle. in your case (and mine) it's not. hence the algorithim the lpg ecu uses ends up generating a poor lpg map which you then have to spend a lot of time fine tuning. sure you can get the motor running ok but i found there wasn't enough resolution in the software to get the map just right.

    when you run closed loop the petrol map becomes perfectly suited to the engine which is in the car to feed in enough fuel to run lambda 1.0. so when you hook up your lpg software the algorithim works on the petrol map. so you end up relying on the processing power of the 14cux which is reading the oxygen sensors but also is reading the afm/tps/temperature etc to get the initial fuelling close to right in that millisecond when you bang on the throttle.

    i have two led's from jaycar on my dash which tell me if each bank is running from lean to rich. i used these to tweak my lpg map when i used to run open loop. now i run in closed loop i can see my fuelling is working and corrects itself.

    probably the best way to explain the difference is using the led's. when running open loop and you accelerate the led's would go to either end of the gauge (rich or lean) then eventually come back to running approx stoich. it was very hard to get fuelling that accurate under continuous throttle positions. under closed loop, with a proper petrol base map the led would shoot up to rich momentarily then come back to stoich. the better your map the less the led's go to the outer ends of their readings. from memory correctly functioning oxygen sensors should cycle at 300 ms or thereabouts which you can see in the led's (each is about say 10 individual led's in a row).

    so to do this you will need to source a cable and software.

    the closed loop injected lpg map relies on the work done by the land rover engineers in the 14cux not me playing around with my lpg software. i know which one i prefer!

    hth,
    brett.

  2. #12
    Freestyler Guest
    Thanks heaps Brett, I and a radio tech and understand all the electronics just hadn't thought of using the O2 sensors. I also know that there are different O2 sensors and they work differently, which one's are you using??
    Tim

  3. #13
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    The only ones a 14CUX will talk to are Titania.

    Regards Philip A

  4. #14
    pibby is offline Master Silver Subscriber
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    Hi tim – as philipa notes – only titania BUT they have to be specified to be for your land rover vehicle as there are other titania sensors out there.

    Philip – at one point I investigated running some wideband sensors in lieu of the titania sensors which would convert the signal back to narrowband. I was looking forward to having the ability to control fuelling to such a level. The software/sensors came with a proviso that they were not suitable for titania sensors. I had read this numerous times that what was suitable for normal narrowband sensors was not suitable for narrowband titania sensors. I noticed when I installed my o2 sensors their supply was 12 volt from the fuel pump relay and didn’t understand why they couldn’t be used with the wideband sensors with an emulator.

    I ended up going onto the support forum for the product and there was a user on there who had a bmw which had titania sensors and he was able to use the wideband sensors in lieu of the titania. I vaguely remember you mentioning that the 14cux was the same or very similar to bmw efi control at the time.

    I kept looking into it found a diagram (I think by Toyota) which showed the wiring circuit of a titania sensor and the power supply was controlled by the ecu hence it would measure what was going in and relate this to what was coming out. It struck me that this was different to the way the 14cux worked.

    So now I get to my hypothesis – the titania sensors used with the 14cux differ from other titania sensors by limiting the supply voltage down to 1 volt. Other titania sensors have this done for them via a controlled supply through the ecu. In my mind this would explain why there are no universal titania sensors for the 14cux yet for most other vehicles with titania sensors there are. I also think this helps explain why the jaycar led’s show the correct fuelling.

    Well……..them’s my thoughts at least.

  5. #15
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    If you look at this page you will see there is a Universal sensor available. They are GBP 66 including VAT.

    Just Lambda, Landrover lambda sensors, Bosch and NTK zirconia and titania sensors by post
    Looks like a good price as they are also here

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-Ox...item35af7f3150
    BTW I think there are 2 types of Titania 5V and 1v.
    Regards Philip A
    Last edited by PhilipA; 26th October 2011 at 08:51 AM. Reason: More info

  6. #16
    pibby is offline Master Silver Subscriber
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    tim - i vaguely remember getting mine from this place :

    Lambda Sensor Discovery 3.5/3.9EFI ERR6729 Island 4x4 - Specialists in Land Rover and Range Rover Parts and accessories for all models. UK and worldwide mail order.

    45 pound ex vat, i think you will struggle to better this price wise and it is a known fit given they are land rover specialists.

    hi philip - this is testing my memory a bit. when i got my sensors i recall speaking to ntk and bosch neither of whom had a universal sensor. so i would reckon that any universal sensor which would work for the 14cux would not work in any other car, it's like it is a direct fit with it's plug cut off so you have to splice it in. i had a look on the justlambda site to see if the universal sensor for the discovery would work on the bmw vehicles of the era requiring a titania sensor and it does not pop up (hardly scientific but a seat of the pants check?). maybe this is done for all those people running TVRs or transplanting the 14cux and motor into their custom vehicles???????

    brett.

  7. #17
    Freestyler Guest
    Thanks PhillipA and pibby, I'll get some ordered soon and try it out. Let you know how I go. I thought my engine went OK till I drove my Fathers 4.6 in his county which I put in for him. Neither of us can get any better than 20ltr /100km but the LPG make them cheaper. any improvement would be great
    Tim

  8. #18
    Freestyler Guest
    The O2 sensors arrived last week and I got them in and hooked up this week end. Initial indications are that they are working well. I have to take my quad in for a service and saftey recall today see how it goes on a longer trip pulling a trailer. Tim

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