Dislocation or Retention?

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4th January 2012, 02:19 PM
rick130

Quote:

Originally Posted by modman

[snip]
(took me 5 min in google to work out Betty swollocks):(

[snip]
Dc

:lol2:
4th January 2012, 02:24 PM
rick130

Quote:

Originally Posted by wagoo

Did you get that from an association with Betty Swollocks?:)

Balancing the rear suspension to the front is all well and good, but with the flex of RAs being very limited, 2 times nothing is still nothing:wasntme:
Seriously though,after some geometric doodling. If you drilled all the rubber in the RA bushings so that their bolt sleeves could touch the outer shell of the bush during articulation, the maximum angular axle displacement relative to the chassis of the front axle would be 20 degrees,which translates to around 20'' of wheel travel, measured at the wheel track of 58.5''.
I guess that's not too bad, as the 20 degree axle displacement is fairly close to what the rear suspension gives, which is limited to 22 degrees by the angular limit of the A frame ball joint. But then you would have to allow dislocation at the rear to get the 22 degrees rear axle displacement.
Bill.

Hmm, I wonder if you could make (or use) a Johnny joint to replace the RA bushes ?????

I reckon that'd work a treat :twisted:

[edit]
BTW, I found that when I went to PU bushes from holey bushes and greased them well at the pin end, the rotation at the pin/chassis end made up for a lot of the lack of deflection at the diff end.
I was almost tempted to drill up the threaded end of the RA pin and install a nipple so I could grease the bushes when I serviced the car, except I was worried about introducing a stress raiser and propagating a crack from the cross drilling.
4th January 2012, 03:10 PM
rick130

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick130

Hmm, I wonder if you could make (or use) a Johnny joint to replace the RA bushes ?????

I reckon that'd work a treat :twisted:

[snip]

Actually, I wonder if they would work looking at the distortion on my old buggered holey bushes.

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/4747/imga0263.jpg

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8746/imga0264.jpg

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/2952/imga0265u.jpg

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1952/imga0286.jpg
4th January 2012, 03:56 PM
LowRanger

Quote:

Originally Posted by modman

Any muppet can put 14 inch shocks in the rear of a rover with eBay mounts and dislocation cones
Usually the same crew that has NO flex in the front end
Meh....... I'm trying to mount a swaybar (properly) in the rear to help balance/force the front end to flex RELATIVE to the rear

The web seems full of coil sprung rovers with rear ends Maxing out 14inch shocks but the front end is barely flexed ??????:bangin:
Dc

Yep,see it all the time.
I tried a set of "flexi Coils" front and rear.They are no longer in the vehicle.They were "block progressive" and allowed the rear to flex a lot,but while the fronts were soft,they didn't allow the front to work to my satisfaction in extension.I use drilled standard bushes at the diff end and since changing the springs in the front to a linear rate,after having the corners of the vehicle weighed and using the longer "taper wire progressive" springs in the rear,I find the front now works to the limits of the available travel inherent to the design parameters of the front R.A. design.
4th January 2012, 03:59 PM
LowRanger

Quote:

Originally Posted by uninformed

Modman, what do you mean by misalingment spacers?

Serg

I think you will find that the misalignment spacers are conical spacers that are used when fitting "skinny" front R.A's into wide mountings
4th January 2012, 04:12 PM
LowRanger

Quote:

Originally Posted by modman

front 10 inck 80s toy ridepros, skinny arms holey bushes, 20mm turrett spacer, spring king 50 mm lift, the rate is first level above standard

rear is standard koni, cranked standard bush king 50mm lift spring recommended for 110 tray.
rubber bushes throughout

all three brakelines are braided (longer)

when i enter the valley of the travel ramp and drive foward (up) i end with 1 inch of bumpstop clearance at oposing corners. has a smooth transition of front/rear flex.

110 200tdi, was a cab chassis, now a wagon
i find this setup climbs well and when negotiating steep declines if a wheel drops into a rut/hole the ass end dosent want to overtake me (from above)

am collecting parts like rr eas front housing to use with eshock bilsteins
taper ground progressive front springs, new turrets
building rear mounts or maybe buy gwn lewis/d44/generic ebay challenge mounts, rear swaybar set up using cheap ass standard set up

balaclava and gun to rob bank..........

unfortunately these days i seem to have more fun building 'stuff' than wheeling it. like the 10 sets of 20mnv6 40/10 cranked rear links i started 12 months ago:D
barely enough time to rub the tinea these days
DC

DC

Don't confuse the available types of mounts,though they look similar,some are not what they seem:eek:
After a lot of searching and a lot of asking pertinent questions,I went with the Gwyn Lewis mounts,as they were proven in competition use,I could not find anyone with a bad thing to say regarding them,and when I rang,I was able to speak to the guy that designed and makes them.And his answers to my questions were to my satisfaction.
They are not made to look pretty like some of the "imitations".But there are slight differences in Gwyns mounts that the others never looked at,such as the front extended towers being made with an offset that helps to eliminate the front shocks rubbing on the springs on extension.And the quality of the welding on some of the more well known products leaves a bit to be desired.
I haven't seen the D44 system mounts,but when I purchased my GL mounts,the D44 mounts were not available.

And I agree that making things to suit a specific need is the way to go,unfortunately I am TIME poor,due to work commitments and don't get the time in the workshop that I used to get as a younger man....unfortunately
4th January 2012, 05:21 PM
modman

point taken with mounts, thanks lowranger
where did you get the tapered progresive springs from if i may ask??
jhonnie joints/heims don't work in ra's, with the arc the axle travels in around the chassis mount during crossed articulation
see how close the ra's are to the axle housing in ricks photos
in the next 2 years:D i'm really keen to bang the skinny arms in
Dc
oh yeah i would retain my coils if i needed to, coz zombies are coming!
4th January 2012, 05:40 PM
wagoo

Rick, I doubt that Jonnie joints would be successful in that application, in that whilst they swivel ok, the bolt cannot displace off centre from one side of the bush to the other like a rubber bushing can, and that is the only way that the radius arm principal can work. Incidently, at max articulation on my ramp, neither the RRC or the hybrids RA bushings twist like in your photos. They stay square in their mountings.Are you getting binding at the chassis ends to cause this? Eurathane bushings corroding to the RAs/chassis mounts perhaps?
After having a closer look at the hybrid, which doesn't have drilled bushings, and noticing how the metal of the RA that surrounds the bushing fouls on the top of the axle mounting, I think my previous calculation of 20'' of wheel travel was a bit optimistic.Unless this area of the mounting was clearanced and maybe reinforced, my revised calculation is 16'' of wheel travel and about 15 degrees of axle displacement relative to chassis.
Bill.
4th January 2012, 05:52 PM
LowRanger

Quote:

Originally Posted by modman

point taken with mounts, thanks lowranger
where did you get the tapered progresive springs from if i may ask??
jhonnie joints/heims don't work in ra's, with the arc the axle travels in around the chassis mount during crossed articulation
see how close the ra's are to the axle housing in ricks photos
in the next 2 years:D i'm really keen to bang the skinny arms in
Dc
oh yeah i would retain my coils if i needed to, coz zombies are coming!

My tapered wire progressive springs are "Kings" and are actually Patrol springs.
I won't mention where I got them from,as I won't promote the place,although the springs work very well in my application.

If I was doing it again,I would definately get the rear corners weighed and calculate a custom spring to suit the length and rate required,similar to what I have done to the front using Lovells springs.
4th January 2012, 05:57 PM
LowRanger

Quote:

Originally Posted by wagoo

Rick, I doubt that Jonnie joints would be successful in that application, in that whilst they swivel ok, the bolt cannot displace off centre from one side of the bush to the other like a rubber bushing can, and that is the only way that the radius arm principal can work. Incidently, at max articulation on my ramp, neither the RRC or the hybrids RA bushings twist like in your photos. They stay square in their mountings.Are you getting binding at the chassis ends to cause this? Eurathane bushings corroding to the RAs/chassis mounts perhaps?
After having a closer look at the hybrid, which doesn't have drilled bushings, and noticing how the metal of the RA that surrounds the bushing fouls on the top of the axle mounting, I think my previous calculation of 20'' of wheel travel was a bit optimistic.Unless this area of the mounting was clearanced and maybe reinforced, my revised calculation is 16'' of wheel travel and about 15 degrees of axle displacement relative to chassis.
Bill.

Bill

I think you will find that the mounts twist like that,due to the fact that they are completely flogged out.I know mine did the same when they were flogged out,and they were genuine

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