Thread: Winch Selection Advise

Originally Posted by ugu80

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"Post-purchase rationalization, also known as Buyer's Stockholm Syndrome, ...

Now, let the (defensive) abuse begin!

When I began my career, I designed mine winders and haulage's, for raising/lowering workers and materials between the underground workings and the surface. They were installed in mines in NSW, QLD and WA. With the exception of the friction winders, the wire rope was wound in multiple layers on drum, not unlike a vehicle winch drum, except the drum had grooves for the rope, and some winders were double drum (simultaneous raise and lower). BTW the largest I have designed was 2 speed for hauling 90 tonne of material, or a lower load of men and material at 4 m/s, or 60 tonne of material at 6 m/s.

I don't base my comments on brand name. I prefer my experience and judgment.

I still have 3 Warn high mount winches, 1 low mount Warn XD9000, and 1 OX (TJM re-badged Mile Marker) hydraulic winch. I have had all of these for many years, over multiple vehicles.

The low mount I bought new, it was my first winch and it fitted the bar that was on my rangie at the time. That could have been 20 years ago, too long for my memory to be exact. I do remember Warn didn't have too much competition back then, and was easily the most popular/common.

What can I say - it is a common or garden type low mount winch. I found fitting a 6HP motor made it better and able to pull further before overheating.

That is possibly the main problem with low mount winches. Overheating if called upon for long heavy winching. The issue is the poor mechanical efficiency of their planetary type reduction gearbox.

If you are prepared to take a lot longer for a long hard recovery, allow the motor time to cool when it gets hot, and use a snatch block to reduce the rope load, a good low mount will do the job.

If you demand a winch that will work hard and get the job done in the least time, you need to look for something much better than the common batch of electrical powered low mounts.

Even though only rated at 8000 lb, Warn high mounts will out pull the low mounts, and particularly when the motor is uprated. Their triple reduction, spur gear box is much more efficient than the double reduction planetary, or worm gear boxes on low mount winches. This allows them to work harder and longer than low mount winches.

They are the best choice for driving while winching. Now everyone and their dog will now jump up and criticise driving and winching, but there are times when it is desirable, e.g. positioning the vehicle to negotiate difficult obstacles, or assisting the winch to get over an obstacle, or during a long steep pull. Low mounts are hopeless for this as the winch is too slow to keep the rope taught when the vehicle gains a bit of traction (even with an underdrive to reduce the vehicle speed - BTW the main market for the Ashcroft underdrive is for those who need to winch and drive without wheel spin).

The best winches for long hard work are hydraulic or PTO driven. These can also be faster than electric powered winches. They don't suit driving while winching when it is necessary to avoid wheel spin as it is too difficult to match winch speed and tyre speed, not impossible with hydraulics, but expensive to implement a good hydraulic solution.

I paid $300 dollars each for 2 of my high mounts. High mounts in good used condition would come up at that sort of price and represented excellent value. If I wanted a high mount I wouldn't hesitate to by a good used one. As long as they have not sat with water in them, replacement of a few consumable parts can have them back in almost as good as new mechanical condition. So I reject the higher cost argument against high mount winches, unless referring to competition winches.

My 3rd high mount was a bit more expensive. It came off one of the top competition vehicles in Aus at the time, and was one of, if not the first to have an air free spool that disconnecting the drum from the drive.

The stock free spool is a design weakness of high mount's, so most people simply power out, while pulling of the rope to reach the anchor point. There are some other well known issues and appropriate fixes, all bar a good fix for the lousy brake, but few winch recoveries are compromised by the poor brake holding.

Warn based the high mount on the old Bellevue (sp?) winch that they bought. They re-designed it to make it cheaper, but the Bellevue was a much better design in all respects, except it lacked a free spool. Warn have never addressed the few issues, and never will because they would like to kill-off the high mount (I guess better profits in low mounts), but people keep demanding it because, even with its faults, it is a better winch than their low mount offerings.

Originally Posted by brendanm

Hi Iain
Just saw the post. Before I got my first winch I asked a few people with winches how often they used them and often the reply came back seldom or occasional use rescuing others.
This makes me think there are bargains on the second hand market with little use. Mine is a Warn which was $800 off ebay from memory, but that also included the ARB bullbar. Never had an issue, though I think the wire may be nearing the end of its life expectancy.
The Plasma/Dyneema will wear quickly when abraded on rocks and shrink wraps the drum on a low mount very well. Although it can be joined and is heaps easier to pull up the hill and floats. Maybe the moral here is to use the type of cable originally supplied with the winch.
The cheapest way out is to travel with friends who have the type of winch recommended by the good people on the forum. You just need to stipulate this as criteria for the pleasure of joining you on your next listing of an upcoming trip

And here I was thinking you were getting sick of winching me up hills

Originally Posted by isuzutoo-eh

I have had 2x Aldi, 1x Warn 8274 Hi-Mount and 1.5x Thomas PTO winches through my hands. The Warn has been with me the longest therefore must be most reliable on a number of failures vs time graph, the Aldi jobs only survived a few weeks, but the PTO is easily my favourite, I like oddities and alternative solutions!

Interestingly, the Hi-mount and the PTO winch date from the same period, back when winches were very expensive rarities in the 4WD world that were moved from car to car and manufacturers didn't build in obsolescence (thus made reliable goods). There are a fair few 20+ year old 8274s around, and still will be around in another 20 years.

The hydraulic winches I suspect would be just as robust and reliable as the PTO and 8274 winches.

Now, just because none of my winches have been used by me has no factor in it at all, certainly not making me an expert at hearsay or anything. Heck, of the four, only the Warn has been on my 110 (for a week or two) and never wired up!

Oh, you wanted useful feedback

Any feedback about a winch you have owned, fitted and worked at some point on a car that actually drives is useful……….

Originally Posted by Bush65

What can I say - it is a common or garden type low mount winch. I found fitting a 6HP motor made it better and able to pull further before overheating.

Even though only rated at 8000 lb, Warn high mounts will out pull the low mounts, and particularly when the motor is uprated. Their triple reduction, spur gear box is much more efficient than the double reduction planetary, or worm gear boxes on low mount winches. This allows them to work harder and longer than low mount winches.

Ok a bit of a dub question but how do the manufacturers actually get the winch rating and what does it refer to if its not a WWL or a SWL? How does a 12,000lb low mount then compare with a 8,000lb low mount in terms of a meaningful comparison or is that just unrealistic.