First K&N filter clean, I wish I had millions of dollars

**Dougal** · 3rd December 2013, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Davehoos

I had K&N on my Nissan/holden cars. the skyline diesel suffered oil in the air box until I fitted a K&N.

And how did that help? Oil in the airbox (presumably from the breather) would indicate excessive blowby. A change of filter won't do much to help that.

Originally Posted by Davehoos

the bomag roller we have at work uses a MANN filter. every oil change,250hr, the filter is removed-and was binned. ever few filters the safety filter is replaced. the supplier recommended never to reclean these filters as they are paper and they are easily damaged.-recently we been sending them out and often they are rejected.

Is that by the book or because the guys at service do everything? Normally the instruction is to not change the filter until the indicator trips (i.e. no set hours). But with operators who don't know or care I can understand why periodic replacement is done instead. Safety filter every 3 main filters is standard.

250 hours at 60km/h is about 15,000km. Quite good for extremely dusty conditions. The MAN filter will be taking out 99.9% of everything too.

Years ago in Aussie I saw a one year old Moffet forklift which had never had it's filter changed. 2000 hours and the filter housing was packed full of dust. It came in for engine trouble. The head was pulled and there was about 1mm play in the bores, I'm guessing "engine trouble" meant compression so low it wouldn't even start.
It would have vacuumed the filter to the point where it sucked dust through it.

**isuzurover** · 3rd December 2013, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by rick130

Bingo.

High Si in particular will show with a K&N in dusty conditions, as well as elevated Pb, Al and Fe.

Silicon is used in some/most oils as an anti-foaming agent, but it's noticeable on a UOA when it's dust ingestion.

One of the South Africans posted some really good pics probably a decade ago on one of the now defunct UK boards of a 300Tdi with 80,000km of K&N use in predominantly dirt road conditions.

Every bore was totally stuffed, required a maximum re-bore. (and it wasn't a case of soft bores)

isuzurover also recounted the story of an F1 engine manufacturer that used K&N's until the first race in the middle east where they dusted multiple engines from the constant sand blowing across the circuit.
IIRC air flow and face velocities were pretty high, (naturally) but it's a pretty good illustration of what can happen.

What Rick said...

Also, there are cheap and nasty cellulose (paper) filters on the market. I believe the filters in question were an unknown brand???

Oil analysis costs ~$20-30 a go. Usually you need to buy the kits in lots of 10.

**joel0407** · 3rd December 2013, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by isuzurover

What Rick said...

Also, there are cheap and nasty cellulose (paper) filters on the market. I believe the filters in question were an unknown brand???

Oil analysis costs ~$20-30 a go. Usually you need to buy the kits in lots of 10.

The filters that failed were 2 x Coopers and then one Ryco. I bought the Ryco because it was the only thing I could get at the time. Now I'm running visible dust free with the K&N and will do a oil analysis at the next change.

Happy Days.

**MR LR** · 4th December 2013, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by joel0407

The filters that failed were 2 x Coopers and then one Ryco. I bought the Ryco because it was the only thing I could get at the time. Now I'm running visible dust free with the K&N and will do a oil analysis at the next change.

Happy Days.

So did the elements in all 3 filters rip? Or what exactly 'failed' on them.

I've run both those brands without issue, the Ryco was also when I couldn't get a Cooper.

Cheers
Will

**joel0407** · 4th December 2013, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by MR LR

So did the elements in all 3 filters rip? Or what exactly 'failed' on them.

I've run both those brands without issue, the Ryco was also when I couldn't get a Cooper.

Cheers
Will

Apparently there is a difference between Cooper and Coopers Filters. So just to clarify it they were Coopers with and S.

The all let dust past and one of the Coopers ripped on one of the pleats.

I know the Disco 2 air box is rubbish and I was fully aware of this very early on. Some are suspecting that the filter box didn't seal and dust got around the edge but I suspect the dust actually went through the filter. Very fine dust covered the inside of the air box lid and inside the pipe that goes to the turbo. I washed this dust and stressed out every time I saw it and it happened with all 3 filters. The dust was also evenly distributed. If the dust came past the seal I wouldn't expect it to be the whole seal and I'd expect there to be some indication of where it came from.

Happy Days.

Happy Days.

**Redback** · 4th December 2013, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by joel0407

Apparently there is a difference between Cooper and Coopers Filters. So just to clarify it they were Coopers with and S.

The all let dust past and one of the Coopers ripped on one of the pleats.

I know the Disco 2 air box is rubbish and I was fully aware of this very early on. Some are suspecting that the filter box didn't seal and dust got around the edge but I suspect the dust actually went through the filter. Very fine dust covered the inside of the air box lid and inside the pipe that goes to the turbo. I washed this dust and stressed out every time I saw it and it happened with all 3 filters. The dust was also evenly distributed. If the dust came past the seal I wouldn't expect it to be the whole seal and I'd expect there to be some indication of where it came from.

Happy Days.

Happy Days.

That's something I didn't realise, Cooper and Coopers filters

Might do a google search to see what is what.
Baz

**joel0407** · 4th December 2013, 02:22 PM

Here's a thread by "Offtrack". I have a good amount of respect for his posts.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-...r-filters.html

I also posted a picture of my air box lid in that thread.

Happy Days.

**Redback** · 4th December 2013, 02:53 PM

I also have respect for Offtracks knowledge.

Just doing a search brought them both up, the two are;

Coopers/FIAAM and Wesfil/Cooper

Most of the Land Rover filter kits have either Coopers/fiaam or Mahle air filters, with either Mahn or Bearmack oil filters.

The other kits are Wesfil/Cooper, which was recommended by our Mobile Mechanic as an alternative to the Coopers/Cooper filter.

At the moment we have the Mahle air filter in our D4, from my last inspection it was fine.

Like a lot I too thought Coopers made the OEM LR filter.

Baz.

**scarry** · 4th December 2013, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by joel0407

I know the Disco 2 air box is rubbish and I was fully aware of this very early on. Some are suspecting that the filter box didn't seal and dust got around the edge but I suspect the dust actually went through the filter. Very fine dust covered the inside of the air box lid and inside the pipe that goes to the turbo. I washed this dust and stressed out every time I saw it and it happened with all 3 filters. The dust was also evenly distributed. If the dust came past the seal I wouldn't expect it to be the whole seal and I'd expect there to be some indication of where it came from.

Happy Days.

Happy Days.

FWIW,i had three d2's from new,everyone let fine dust bypass the air filter.I could never see where the dust got through,tried different filters,same problem.
Eventually i put silicone grease around the top side of the filter seal of the air box,problem solved.
I recon the top and bottom sections of the box move due to vibration or whatever and let the very fine dust through.
And no fitting a snorkle did not fix the problem,but what it did do was lengthen the life of the air filter in dusty conditions.

Davehoos · 4th December 2013, 09:28 PM

And how did that help? Oil in the airbox (presumably from the breather) would indicate excessive blowby. A change of filter won't do much to help that.
quote-

factory systems normally set up to reduce noise, Japanese diesel use restriction to draw in PCV fumes,most are on pressure control,also brake booster and fuel tank breather.-EGR at low engine speeds, higher speeds they restrict heeps to lower noise..

improved idle, exhaust emisions. I wasn't racing these, with a trailer on the RD28 the engine temps are lower, the bluebird LD20/CD20 the black smoke stops collecting on the tail lights. LPG skyline and commodore you can tune the mixtures much better.

1985 R31 skyline RB20E auto 170 000Km passed bag test at Penrith RTA for a 2002 new engine. RB engine are good but.

the bomag operators-its best if I do it. the other plant are often given a basic clean when radiators are cleaned. the deal with filter services have dropped the operating costs.

Cat 432E hoe would be the worse for air cleaners. these are used mostly on tar roads.
average 1000 hrs a year and our trucks will do 5000, recently due to rain they done 15000.RFS vehicles wil be lucky to do a few hundred KM a year on an air cleaner.

by the book--drive till it dies and trade in.

Thread: First K&N filter clean, I wish I had millions of dollars

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