Perentie - Tubeless Tyres

dingsy,

My experience of running LR tubed rims as tubeless wasn't successful.
I have the older 130 'Wolf' tubed rims on my 120. When I had new 235/85 tyres fitted, the garage chose to fit them without tubes. I was happy to leave them like that, having read threads suggesting - legalities notwithstanding - there was no problem running them like that, and thinking it would make puncture repair easier.

Unfortunately, I found the tyres would not maintain pressure, continually dropping by 10psi every few days. I took them back to the garage a couple of months later, pointed out they were actually tubed rims, and they put tubes in for cost. (Though, unfortunately for me, not long later one of the valves ripped out of a tube at speed and trashed the near new BFG KM2 in the process...)

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Originally Posted by 2stroke

I realize that, just making the point that 235s aren't a great fit on 5.5s, a whole lot better on a 6".

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The Perentie 6x6 & 4x4 both have a 6" rim.

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

Is it actually illegal? After all, tubeless tyres were being used for years before the safety rim was invented. Certainly it is contrary to 'industry standards', but they are as much to protect tyre fitters from legal action as to ensure safety. And these are the same people who will happily sell you aftermarket wheels with safety ribs!

John

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It's not the tyre fitter at risk of peeling a tyre, digging a rim into the road and rolling.

My offroad set of wheels are tubed and for over 300,000km were my road at of wheels. I have no idea why people are against tubes.

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Originally Posted by Dougal

It's not the tyre fitter at risk of peeling a tyre, digging a rim into the road and rolling.

My offroad set of wheels are tubed and for over 300,000km were my road at of wheels. I have no idea why people are against tubes.

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You might have better roads in the shakey isles and a slightly reduced amount of hard mallee roots to cope with there Dougal :)

More seriously, the small amount of tubed tyres in existence here now mean that
(1) tyre fitters have little expertise in fitting them (so tubes can be damaged on installation),
(2) the inside surfaces of tubeless tyres (usually the only type of tyre available) can roughly manufacttured/finished and thus will be abrasive for tubes,
(3) the tyre fitters make no effort during tyre replacement to remove rust from the inner surfaces of rims (they need to be taken back home and treated/painted before the new tyre is fitted) , and (4) the quality of readily available tubes can be quite poor (a bit of a lucky dip really)

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Originally Posted by DeeJay

The Perentie 6x6 & 4x4 both have a 6" rim.

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Oh, okay, didn't realize they had different rims than every other 110.

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Originally Posted by 87County

You might have better roads in the shakey isles and a slightly reduced amount of hard mallee roots to cope with there Dougal :)

More seriously, the small amount of tubed tyres in existence here now mean that
(1) tyre fitters have little expertise in fitting them (so tubes can be damaged on installation),
(2) the inside surfaces of tubeless tyres (usually the only type of tyre available) can roughly manufacttured/finished and thus will be abrasive for tubes,
(3) the tyre fitters make no effort during tyre replacement to remove rust from the inner surfaces of rims (they need to be taken back home and treated/painted before the new tyre is fitted) , and (4) the quality of readily available tubes can be quite poor (a bit of a lucky dip really)

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Our roads are particluarly terrible. But the #1 risk with a tubeless tyre on a tubed rim is peeling it off on a corner or side-slope. If that happens on a 4wd then you're extremely lucky if you don't roll.

None of those reasons you've mentioned stand scrutiny. Take a look at how ribbed the inside of a set of BFG's are. I have worn out two sets of those with tubes (about 160,000km) and zero related issues.
If a tyre-fitter can't fit tubes, then I wouldn't trust them undoing the wheel-nuts.
If a steel rim is rusted badly enough to damage a tube, then it's not going to work tubeless.

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Originally Posted by Dougal

Our roads are particluarly terrible. But the #1 risk with a tubeless tyre on a tubed rim is peeling it off on a corner or side-slope. If that happens on a 4wd then you're extremely lucky if you don't roll.

None of those reasons you've mentioned stand scrutiny. ....

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I think that's a bit harsh mate, I was just stating what the situation here actually is... and my opinions as to why people try to avoid tubed tyres if they can.

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Originally Posted by 87County

I think that's a bit harsh mate, I was just stating what the situation here actually is... and my opinions as to why people try to avoid tubed tyres if they can.

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The problem is, those reasons aren't real reasons. They are simply excuses which as I said don't stand scrutiny.

But if excuses like those are posted on the internet it becomes a self-perpetuating myth and people start to beleive that tubes are evil and running tubeless on tubed rims is safe.

When the truth is the exact opposite.

Tubeless steel rims are not in any way new. There is a 1979 car in my garage which has factory steel wheels with the safety bead for tubeless.

First let me state that I run tubes!

But, I agree with 87County's comments. In particular, I have had a lot of problems with faulty tubes that develop porous spots after 10,000 or so km, tubes where the metal part of the valve parts company with the rubber stem, quite apart from the usual unexplained punctures that are probably also tube faults. Quite often, these faults result in sudden deflation that is just as bad as rolling a tyre off, and in probably 50% of cases the destruction of the tyre. (A possible explanation for the poor quality of tubes today is that they spend a lot of time on the shelf.)

I can also add that tubes can be very hard to find in many cases, so you are faced with patching one you would prefer to replace. Then there is the cost. My experience is that tubes have almost doubled in cost in the last five years - recent quotes being $36 each. And if anything the quality is worse.

So I can see very good reasons for running tubeless, and I know of quite a few cases where these have been run for many years on Landrover or similar rims without any issues, and with far fewer problems than running tubes.

I suggest if the pressure is low enough to roll a tyre off the bead it will do so even if there is a tube - and in most cases rupture the tube, especially with the quality we seem to get today.

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

So I can see very good reasons for running tubeless, and I know of quite a few cases where these have been run for many years on Landrover or similar rims without any issues, and with far fewer problems than running tubes.

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If you want to run tubeless, then go ahead. But do it on a tubeless rim.

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

I suggest if the pressure is low enough to roll a tyre off the bead it will do so even if there is a tube - and in most cases rupture the tube, especially with the quality we seem to get today.

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You do not need to roll a tyre off the bead to dump pressure on tubeless. You only need to roll it enough to either burp it or get debris in the bead.

Now if that happens with a double-hump rim. It's no drama beyond a flat tyre.
If that happens with a tubed tyre you don't even notice. There is no air loss.
But do that with a tube type rim and the tyre completely unseats without warning.