Did You know this 'Can' happen to a diesel (Death by oil)

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Originally Posted by Dougal

And confirmed by Serge's video above.
Honestly to get enough oil into the engine to hydraulic it, you would need to fill the intercooler. Further it doesn't look internally like the engine has been hydraulic'd.
I'm thinking the oil is a red-herring and the run-away problem (and cylinder damge) may be completely unrelated to the high oil level.

Serge, there is a Brazillian guy on 4btswaps.com who could do with a productive research job on 2.8 parts. He loves diesels and knows a lot about which vehicles and engines are available there. Let me know if you want to get him in contact.

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I will just re vist the few facts I have from this whole incident:

max oil amount on refill is 7 litres. I measured plus 2 litres (what I removed)

Turbo was removed and repaired before oil change.

Oil level was checked at dipstick BEFORE starting engine after change. It was high. After a small 5km run home, it was checked again. It was now 15-20mm higher than max on the dipstick.

Lift pump was not working (bent arm) after the over rev incident. Note, manual lever arm can only be moved through 30 degrees from level due to set up on this engine (it fowles on a pipe outlet from oil filter/cooler housing. I have seen some photos of these engines brand new and there is NO lever arm on the outside of lift pump. So hand priming proves nothing.

Oil was found in the bottom hose from turbo to intercooler AND in the intercooler (1/2 a cup in each). Oil was found in the main intake hose from the air cleaner (the bottom of the filter has oil on it), about a table spoon of oil was removed from the main intake hose(Filter to turbo). Engine breather hose (cyclone to air intake) was very oily. Cyclone feed hose is fed of the dipstick pipe (1/2 way up it) cyclone is also attached to the rocker cover same as a 300tdi.

#2 Injector may well be buggered now, but is that a result or cause?

Lift pump main arm may have bent due to either diesel seeping through a split in the diaphragm and then the arm could not compress it and bent. Or it was oil pressurised in under the diaphragm and same result for arm????

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Originally Posted by wrinklearthur

Don't forget this listing on eBay, could help someone.
eBay Australia: Buy new & used fashion, electronics & home d .

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Another place to try, as they do sell sleeves for 300 TDi's.

Online Catalogue
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Rick, how much does it cost to get an oil analysis? I still have the engine oil removed on the day of incident....

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Originally Posted by uninformed

Rick, how much does it cost to get an oil analysis? I still have the engine oil removed on the day of incident....

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~$25 a pop, but you need to buy them in kits of 10 usually (postage paid).

That is a good thing because their numbers are a bit rubbery. I would buy a kit for 10 samples, thoroughly stir your oil and then fill 3 sample jars at once. Don't tell them that the samples are all the same.

I use(d) ALS Wearcheck, until we found their soot numbers were wrong (but we found that other companies are just as bad). Their viscosity data should be OK - which is more what you are looking for.



Serg - look on the bright side - you don't need any new conrods!!!

The basic E-monitor one is here e-Monitor oil analysis - A blood test for your vehicle - Australian Laboratory Services - Australia

It doesn't have some of the things I used to get tested, but it covers the basics, although I've found none of the Australian labs seem to be able to measure fuel levels under 1%, but I don't think you're looking for a minimal dilution level either :angel:

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Originally Posted by Dougal

This story just keeps getting worse :(

Sure that's not a ZD30?

How do you overheat just #2 enough to melt the piston and grab the bore? I figured that cylinder would be one getting the most air. How are the valves?

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ID go with a dodgy injector that was never closing, a piston cooling jet that was blocked or low compression on theo ther 3 pots. but it also looks like #4 has met the valve....

lets speculate for a second on all 3.

IF #2 injector was dribbling enough it would have been washing the bores of lubricant and because of the excess fuel that pot would have been working harder than the rest. The fuel washing would have caused the bores to glaze and under the right conditions the excess fuel would have been cooking that pot. with the bores glazed blowby would have become an issue with the extra blow by combined with too high an oil level theres your runaway, once its gotten wound up enough a little valve float+ bounce has started to occur and because #4 runs the hottest it will typically have the tightest valve clearance if youve only done a cold set on them..

If pot #2 has had no benefit from under side cooling its going to run hotter than normal once the engine is pushed it will start to melt. once its starting to melt the piston changes shape and the ally surface will start to break away contaminating the sides of the chamber and reducing the sealing ability of the rings, with compromised ring sealing excess blow by occurs and with the excess oil...........

IF pots #1,3,4 are being lazy due to coked exhaust valves then #2 will work harder due to the extra fuel being poured in to all the pots by the governor to keep the engine at its requested power output, as the other pots are running on lower compression dispite being overfueled they wont get as hot as #1 the excess heat over a prolonged period causes more wear which reduces the tension on the rings which then allows excess blow by and that coupled with.... yada yada yada

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Originally Posted by rick130

Just had a thought, have you PM'd Jase at all ?

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Originally Posted by uninformed

Has Jase been around here at all???

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I have a mobile number for Jase, it's three years old but I'll PM it to you anyway.

Tony

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

ID go with a dodgy injector that was never closing, a piston cooling jet that was blocked or low compression on theo ther 3 pots. but it also looks like #4 has met the valve....

lets speculate for a second on all 3.

IF #2 injector was dribbling enough it would have been washing the bores of lubricant and because of the excess fuel that pot would have been working harder than the rest. The fuel washing would have caused the bores to glaze and under the right conditions the excess fuel would have been cooking that pot. with the bores glazed blowby would have become an issue with the extra blow by combined with too high an oil level theres your runaway, once its gotten wound up enough a little valve float+ bounce has started to occur and because #4 runs the hottest it will typically have the tightest valve clearance if youve only done a cold set on them..

If pot #2 has had no benefit from under side cooling its going to run hotter than normal once the engine is pushed it will start to melt. once its starting to melt the piston changes shape and the ally surface will start to break away contaminating the sides of the chamber and reducing the sealing ability of the rings, with compromised ring sealing excess blow by occurs and with the excess oil...........

IF pots #1,3,4 are being lazy due to coked exhaust valves then #2 will work harder due to the extra fuel being poured in to all the pots by the governor to keep the engine at its requested power output, as the other pots are running on lower compression dispite being overfueled they wont get as hot as #1 the excess heat over a prolonged period causes more wear which reduces the tension on the rings which then allows excess blow by and that coupled with.... yada yada yada

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Hi Dave

Close to the mark I think for Serge's motor, but what has bent the conrod in in "Fred's" motor, to the point that it knocked at piece out of the bore in number one cylinder, if as Dougal has suggested the oil from a failed turbo can't do that damage?

I am following this thread with interest, as the Fred is now waiting for a third attempt to get a motor.
The first that I drove into place, on three cylinders, was beyond it with a three strikes and your out policy! It had a hole in the block, missing conrod and damaged crank. When it blew the PO was racing a GT Falcon and pullin away! Why ? the waste gate was jambed shut ! :o

The second attempt, I got it running, but our local guru had told me it had a porous block, but there was no sign of water in the oil even after running it and pressurising the cooling system, but lots of blow by. This motor head will now be used on the motor number three.

Attempt three, brought as a short motor from our local rogue, had a bent conrod in cylinder number one. The piston had part of the oil ring missing and also a slight score down it's lazy side from rubbing the gap out of the cylinder where the conrod had hit it. In the sump was all the missing pieces from the rings and the cylinder, but also a fair selection of turbo bearing remains.
A bit of honing, a slight rub on the piston skirt and had a fiddle with various old conrods for one with a nice fit on the piston (by the way is 0.020 " oversize and that might explain the broken ring too ) I made up a set of rings from here and there, shh don't tell will you, the whole lot went back together nicely after checking the rings for their correct gap. The next step I measured the piston protrusion and can use a two hole head gasket but as I have only three hole ones here that will go on instead.

So I am now left wondering what caused the slight impact marks on that number one piston crown and how much oil needs to be pumped into the induction manifold to have a conrod bend.

After the mix and match Landy I had a horror story going with, I need a break, so Fred and other Landy projects will be ignored until I get a bit more done to my house.
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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

ID go with a dodgy injector that was never closing, a piston cooling jet that was blocked or low compression on theo ther 3 pots. but it also looks like #4 has met the valve....

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Dave, what are you looking at that makes you think #4 has met the valve :confused:. I just took a close look at the original picture (before resize) and Im seeing a ring on #1 and on #3 that are the same as the combustion chamber on the piston. I think these are pressure marks in the oil/fuel, but not actually damage on the head or piston....

the shape of the shiney blob in the picture for pot #4.... if its oil its pooled very nicely in the shape of the valve.

an old trick for finding surface depressions is to pour a very thin film of oil onto it, the oil will pool into the low spots and surface tension will pull the oil into shape