Thread: Locker vs LSD in the front.

If you are chasing ultimate traction then a locker is the go.

BUT an ATB will offer much the same benefit right up until you lift a wheel. ATB will be easier on drive shafts and CVs as well.

In my experience the ATB improved the on-road driving experience, with better turn-in, grip and handling. There are no steering issues and it doesn't require an LSD oil, there is no friction material in an ATB.

I think the ATB is being confused with an auto locker (steering issues) or conventional LSD (oil).

Originally Posted by Disco-tastic

As many have said there is no advantage to having an LSD instead of an air or vacuum locker. (Except for maybe not having to flick a switch on occasion). With the Locker you decide when its or out and it wont affect on road performance at all. You get full control. Plus the locker doesnt need a special LSD oil.

If it was me and i had both sitting there, id go the locker every time.

I wouldnt feel as safe with an LSD in the front due to steering issues, though as some say some dont affect performance.

Cheers

Dan

Would an LSD cause steering issues? There are front wheel drive cars with LSDs.

My understanding is that some can, depending on how they're setup, though this is only something I've heard. I'm no expert - i haven't experienced an LSD vs locker in offroad situations. I have had a D1 with front and rear lockers though and the control they provided was great.

Cheers

Dan

They are torque biasing diffs... Not limited slip or lockers. Many fit them to front wheel drive hot hatches. I'd love to try some. The hot hatch guys can't speak highly enough of them (no more lifting the inside front wheel and laying rubber rather than accelerating when doing motorkhanas ).

https://shop.quaife.co.uk/differentials

similar thing:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uwpNpvsshQ[/ame]

They will send the power to the wheel with the most grip. I'd fit a set in a heartbeat to my old POS rangie ... my wife could drive it anywhere and they would work seamlessly on mud/wet grass where she'd most likely get bogged.

I'll never need lockers in my POS ... no need to worry about leaking air lines, crook compressors, stuck diff locks etc...

seeya,
Shane L.

Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

They are torque biasing diffs... Not limited slip or lockers. Many fit them to front wheel drive hot hatches. I'd love to try some. The hot hatch guys can't speak highly enough of them (no more lifting the inside front wheel and laying rubber rather than accelerating when doing motorkhanas ).

https://shop.quaife.co.uk/differentials

similar thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uwpNpvsshQ

They will send the power to the wheel with the most grip. I'd fit a set in a heartbeat to my old POS rangie ... my wife could drive it anywhere and they would work seamlessly on mud/wet grass where she'd most likely get bogged.

I'll never need lockers in my POS ... no need to worry about leaking air lines, crook compressors, stuck diff locks etc...

seeya,
Shane L.

Interesting video. It showed that when no wheels had traction, they would all turn, but when one had traction and the other didn't, only the one without traction was turning. Therefore no power was being put to the wheel with traction. They require a lot more revs to provide enough torque to the wheel with traction to drive it.

The trick with the brakes is also used for cars with open diffs to achieve a similar result.

As anyone will know that has spun a wheel on wet roads, it takes a lot more work to get a spinning tyre to gain traction again once it starts spinning. With the tru-tracs and similar items, a wheel has to start spinning before it will bias any power to the other wheel. So you basically stop going forward and then have to try and gain traction and momentum again. This will not happen with a locker.

In regard to the first link to Quaife differentials, there description of how it works explains a little. They only direct more torque to the non-spinning wheel, but they are not a locker.
"The Z8 Quaife ATB Helical LSD differential automatically biases the torque away from the spinning wheel across the axle, to a constantly varying degree, and never locks."

Basically, LSDs and tru-tracs are better than standard diffs, but selectable lockers still leave them for dead in regard to traction and keeping forward momentum going.

Only if you lift a wheel.
Plus. If you're in a vehicle with traction control fitted, a quaife/tru track/atb will provide significant traction gains.

Sent from my HTC One using AULRO mobile app

Momentum is lost if you go into a hard place with selectable lockers unlocked and fail to proceed. You need to lock the diffs and try again.

While ATBs are "always on" the above scenario still happens with ATBs (no traction control) because the moment you have a wheel in the air ATBs act like an open diff - just like unlocked selectable lockers above.

Bring traction control into the ATB scenario and it's a game changer. As soon as there is a wheel in the air the ATC complements the ATB and no loss of momentum etc. nothing to forget to switch on etc.

Where I find the ATB option shines (with or without ATC as well) is:
1. you don't have to upgrade all other driveline components to HD spec as you will never have all available torque driving any one wheel - some will always go to the axle/wheel in the other side of the diff.

Whereas selectable lockers, and non-selectable full lockers (detroits, lokka etc) can easily have all drive going to one side shaft. (Careful or breakage!)

2. with ATBs they are working for you full time, every drive, on or off-road, proactively (until a wheel is grabbing air). And don't underestimate how good these things are on the tarmac highways and byways.

Whereas selectable lockers are only helping you out for those few sphincter cramping moments on hard core trails where you actually use them.

Note: before someone calls me out for using the term "proactively" above. ATBs are, I reckon, proactive traction aids.

You have to see ATBs simply as open diffs that are really bad at differentiating. There is friction and helical gear sets resisting differentiation, all the time, even when driving in a straight line on flat smooth road.

Further - The more torque being applied to the ATB, this can be EITHER from the engine applying drive to wheels OR the wheels driving the engine, the more resistance to differentiation pre-exists.

Originally Posted by Disco Muppet

Only if you lift a wheel.
Plus. If you're in a vehicle with traction control fitted, a quaife/tru track/atb will provide significant traction gains.

I do not follow. For a quaife or tru-track to put power to the wheel with traction, the other wheel has to actually spin first. The spinning of one wheel then winds up the mechanism within the diff to start applying more torque to the wheel that is not spinning.

Traction control will stop the spinning wheel from spinning by applying the brakes to that wheel. Wouldn't this then stop the wind up in the diff occurring that is required to put the drive to the wheel with traction.

I would have thought that traction control would actually stop the tru-track from working. Is my logic wrong?