Thread: Boost Controllers

I have this one Adjustable Actuator for Defender or Discovery TD5 , it has a much better action than the original, a ''classic'' remap as well(no MAF or MAP adjustments) large intercooler and straight through exhaust.... i dont think i could have gained more power without other more ''agressive'' tuning

Interesting discussion.

I suspect that modding the WGM control maps in the ECU will end up being the best solution.

The stock modulator is a Pierburg 3 port boost controller of the same type being sold by Subaru and Mitsubishi tuners as a performance upgrade so there is definitely potential.

I've been doing a bit of work on the WGM recently but I'm being hampered by the fact that my logger is currently non-operational. I have a test log I did of the WGM parameters at 60ms sample interval but I was testing the ability to log rather than focusing on analysing the data so there are a few key things missing. Even so it's quite helpful in understanding how the WGM is operating.

BTW If anyone happens to have a nanocom fuelling log of a stock td5 d2 cruising at 100-110kmh I'd love to get a copy...

Here you go, from pos 162.... IMO the MAF is reading low on this one

Originally Posted by sierrafery

Here you go, from pos 162.... IMO the MAF is reading low on this one

Thanks!!

Originally Posted by OffTrack

BTW If anyone happens to have a nanocom fuelling log of a stock td5 d2 cruising at 100-110kmh I'd love to get a copy...

Do I need to whack an SD card in to record it ?

Currently touring through central Oz with an absolutely bog stock '02 TD5, including EGR.
It's never been molested, only has 105,000km on it atm.

[edit] Oops, note to self, read further down in future...

Originally Posted by AK83

I have the GFB G-Force.
Nice little device. I use it on a 300TDi tho, not a TD5.
Dunno how well it'd work on a TD5.

Only problem with it is that you have to work with duty cycles, not absolute values like we're used too.
That is, you don't set (say) a maximum pressure(eg. 20psi) to work with, but you have to experiment with whatever duty cycles do to the system.

it's a bit of a PITA to get it setup the way you want it to work for 'ya.

Doesn't really spool up all that much quicker than a std (for me 300Tdi) turbo.
All it really allows for is you can set up a maximum boost pressure(ie. for me that's about 22psi) for when you need it.

As already said by others earlier, it controls the wastegate, but it does so at 30Hz(30x/sec) so when you set maximum duty cycle, the turbo pressure doesn't pulse up and down madly.

it does help, especially with the Tdi.
I've tweaked my IP a little to get just a tad more fuel through .. just below the point of blowing too much smoke.
Early Jan we went camping, and I fitted a new battery before we headed off. I totally forgot that the G-Force controller has it's memories linked to battery power. disconnect battery, memory loss, and it defaults to standard pressure values(as it says it does).
On the camping trip with a bit of weight in the Tdi, the thing struggled badly, up hills, EGTs skyrocketed .. etc.

Can't remember when, but maybe late Feb, early March, I somehow remembered the G-Force memory loss problem(having disconnected the battery way back).
Went into it's memory banks(I think there are 7 all up), and set it back to my fave memory, and voila! .. boost is back, power is back, and EGTs now way back down(at least 100degrees on average).

Up until I remembered the memory loss aspect of the controller, I started to contemplate new, bigger intercoolers, or clean out the old, etc ... I had visions of pulling the bottom IC hose and striking it rich with the amount of residual oil in there.
I probably have a fair amount of oily residue in the IC and all that, but the point I'm making was that the controller's memory loss, and hence it defaulting back to std parameters, was the issue.

The only human readable value you set on the controller is the maximum boost pressure, I've set mine to 22Psi, so that if the controller allows it to cycle up to this point it can't boost past this point.
And you don't get the dreaded ... boost/no-boost/boost cycling .. every second, as you could with a full manual controller.

I read about the D-Force, and decided to save my $'s and just go with the G-Force model, as I already have an EGT readout.

The only other anomaly that's confused me with the G-Force is the difference in turbo pressure I see between it, and my boost pressure gauge.
Both readings come from the inlet manifold, from the same t-piece, but I see 2psi less pressure from the G-Force as I do with my electronic boost gauge.
One day I'll find a dial type boost pressure gauge and fit it between the two and figure out what's going on.
So at the moment I'm only using any boost pressure readings as a guide, until I can work out what's going on.
But the issue with that tho is that on the GFB I see 22psi(where I set it to max out) and OTOH, on my 1Gauge boost gauge I see 24Psi recorded.
I'm hoping that the 1Gauge is wrong, but it could easily be the GFB that's not correct .. I just don't know.

Fitting was pretty easy, I tapped into the wastegate hose, cable tied the tiny controller valve to the inner wing, some wires into the cabin, along with the vacuum hose. I reckon maybe 2 hours work all up.
The other thing to note is the size of the head unit. I have it set on the drop down cubby on the drivers side, just in front of my left knee, double sided taped there. It drops down with the fuse box-cubby cover. Been there for nearly a year now, and is ideal.
Thing I don't like is the brightness of the display. around town it's ok, as the street lighting over powers it, but on a dark country road where you want as little interior light as possible, it'd be blinding if it were up in the line of sight(hence why I put it down there).
I can't find any way to adjust screen brightness.
Size of the head unit is about the size of your palm. That is, no fingers, no thumb .. just your palm, and that's how big the unit is. Maybe 15mm thick too. Not heavy either, as the double sided tape holding it precariously on the rounded edge of the fuse box cubby lid attests too.

Hope that helps.

Now this is quality information! Any chance you can post details of your duty cycle settings so that others have somewhere to start from?

Originally Posted by rick130

Do I need to whack an SD card in to record it ?

Currently touring through central Oz with an absolutely bog stock '02 TD5, including EGR.
It's never been molested, only has 105,000km on it atm.

[edit] Oops, note to self, read further down in future...

Hi Rick,

A log of some outback touring would be really useful.

I'm trying to get an idea of how the WGM is operating on extended runs vs stock.
Specifically I''ve got a log of a run from near Malmsbury into Melbourne along the Calder sitting on 110.
So the log has a section of 45minutes or so of +/-5kmh variation from 110.

Yes, a SD Card is required.
I usually use the fuelling section to log.
The procedure is to tap the disk icon in the tool bar at the bottom, then enter a name for the file, then OK back out.
You'll get a message saying Recording Active...
To finish tap the disk icon again.

cheers
Paul

It's been nearly a year since I set mine up, but from memory(and using the instructions as a guide):

1/. first you need to set a max boost value. This is the only area where you set an actual boost number that is 'human understandable' .. eg. 20Psi or 1.5 Bar .. or whatever units you're familiar with.
** Overboost is just that, not a maximum value that you want to run the engine with. Your overboost value needs to be just a bit higher than where you want your max boost to run at.
eg. if you want to run a max of 20Psi boost, then Overboost needs to be set to something like 21Psi. I can't remember the exact integer resolution you have access too in this setting(ie. did it need to be 21Psi, or could you have 20.1Psi) just that it needed to be a higher value than the boost pressure you wanted to run. I wanted to run at about 20-21Psi, so I set Overboost to 22Psi.

2/. I then set duty cycle to 85%, and in the instructions they say that over 90% the controller can be less responsive

3/. I used that as my starting point with the plan to drop duty cycle if it caused any problems.
** this second point is kind of redundant because if there are any driveability issues with this setting under various conditions, you do have multiple memory banks to use for any given situation.

4/. given the memory banks, I then set the other 5 memory banks up with about 10% lower duty cycle values .. eg. Mem 2 to about 70%, Mem 3 to 60% .. etc.
** note that you also have a 7th memory channel(SCRamble) which is a temporary setting. It allows you to punch in some overboost if ever needed for a short amount of time(up to 99sec). I'm 99.9% sure I'd never use it as I'm not racing, and if I ever need more power/speed/acceleration .. my preference is to back off, wait, and not over stress the engine.

5/. I set Gain to 90% on all the memory banks. Gain is supposed to control spool up. Instructions explain why not to overdo it, but again I started high with the plan to go lower if any unwanted issues arose(eg. peak turbo pressure cycling or whatever it's called).
I did go for a drive and find that at 90% turbo pressure was still perfectly stable and then of course had to try 100% and still found the same stable pressure, but for long term peace of mind(and that I hate stuffing about with setting up stuff!) I just backed it off back to 90% as there was no actual difference. But it did feel like boost built up quicker with the unit on. And when I lose electrical power to the controller unit, and it resets itself to an 'off like' state .. car does feel less responsive. It's not massive but just noticeable.

6/. Sensitivity I'm pretty sure I just left it alone, or may have just used a random low value of something like 10-20%. This helps to maintain higher boost as revs rise(ie. higher RPM). I don't drive the 300Tdi in that manner, basically sticking to 3000RPM, occasionally 3,500RPM at lower gears if the conditions demand it. I've only ever seen 4000RPM once, and that was a few days after I fitted the new timing belt and only for testing purposes.
So the sensitivity settings weren't so important for me. For a TD5 tho, it may be a different story, and my brother has a TD5 and it's a more appropriate engine to rev to higher RPMs compared to the Tdi.

Note that you need to have the ability to run the vehicle at full throttle for at least short bursts, and at higher gears(ie. any other than 1st or 2nd, I guess).
I have to drive for at least 45mins or so to find a suitable dead end road, and better with an incline too. That way you can hold the engine under load to determine this maximum boost pressure value when you're doing the duty cycle setup.

With the GFB off due to loss of electrical power to the unit(ie. disconnect battery or whatever), I get a maximum of 15Psi as indicated by the 1Gauge gauge monitor.
When the GFB is set to Mem 1, I then get my 20-22(ish) Psi readings on my 1Gauge's Manifold Absolute Pressure(MAP) gauge.
Under normal conditions like typical acceleration around town or cruising, both the 1Gauge and the GFB show similar/same Psi values. They may be out by a few decimal places but close enough to the same to be of no concern.
What's doing my head in, is that if I do a full pressure run ... eg. rev engine to 3500RPM, usually with about 3/4 or 4/5ths throttle(I don't think I've ever used full throttle ever in the year I've had the D1) .. there is a difference in maximum Psi reading.
For whatever reason, I can only ever get 20Psi or lower indicated on the GFB, and for the exact same run I can easily get 22Psi shown on the 1Gauge.
(note that they both have peak hold displays).
So while the GFB is allowing this "up to 22Psi" limit that I set it at, it doesn't ever show more than 20Psi itself (actual max value I've seen is 19.9Psi).
But the MAP gauge on the 1Gauge shows 22Psi for that exact same run. Makes no sense.

Strangely tho, I do occasionally see MAP values of 24Psi on the 1Gauge, but never seen them in real time. The 1Gauge does data logging, and and the resolution of that data logging is something like 0.33secs or so .. very short and quick(actually way too high).
But those 24Psi values I've seen are only very short 0.3sec spikes. So it seems that the GFB is true to it's hype, in that it does control turbo very well .. and causes no spikes or pressure cycles.
In the time I've had the GFB installed, never seen or felt any turbo pressure cycling.

Also note above when I said that if you disconnect the battery ... ie. lose power to the GFB controller, it 'turns off'. It doesn't lose it's memory settings, eg. like your car radio loses its radio memory presets and you have to punch them all in again!
It only 'turns off'! I'm not sure the exact state that the unit is in because the controller itself works as normal.
The best way to describe this 'off' state is: "if the unit ever stops working, it's operating state is such that you're just back to the manufacturer's operating setup".
I've tweaked my Tdi's fuel settings at the pump, and with the controller controlling boost it doesn't smoke up. if I lose power to the controller tho, I get a bit more smoke(mainly at lighter loads) and there's less response.
I just need to keep it in mind, that if I lose power to the GFB, I have to remember to press the memory setting again!

Hope that helps.