Mysteries of the swivel

**langy** · 5th December 2006, 05:51 AM

For those with post 94 discos, with the front hubs that have a rubber center cap, you are supposed to run your swivels on grease - and there are oil seals to keep the diff oil out of the swivel and the hub.

But alas mine died and leaked everywhere. ( Yeah yeah, I know LR....)

So I thought I'd show what actually goes where when you replace those seals and take your swivel apart.

Parts: Diff/Swivel oil seal: FTC 3276, Swivel/Hub seal: FTC5268 & the big seal FTC 3401. Not too expensive, but not cheap either ( via TR spares Syd). Semi fluid grease (EP 0 grade) Penrite brand. Limited stockists, I got mine ($9/500ml) from Antique tyre supplies Ingleburn 96182788.

Special tools needed:

hub spanner of course, but LR sneakily use a 12 point 9/16 or 14mm bolt for the brake caliper. So you'll need a decent 12 point socket. Circlip pliers, blue loctite and, for the lower swivel pin a #40 torx. ( NEW Note: You don't have to undo the lower swivel pin to get the hub off, so forget about the torx) Last but not least, a 9/16 or 14mm ring spanner ( For the diff to swivel bolts ). Make sure it's a sidchrome or similar, you'll need it. ps: You'll also need somthing to measure the preload for the swivels - I used a a spring scale normally used to weigh fish)

Part 1:

First things first - remove the clip that holds the brake pipe to the bracket on top of the swivel. Then you can wriggle the end of the brake pipe out a little so when you remove the caliper, you can twist it out of the way without bending the metal pipes, and not too much stress on the flexible one

Now remove the mudshield:

The little bolt at the bottom, followed by the nut behind the steering stop bolt. You don't have to turn that stop bolt, but it's an idea to hold it whilst you undo the nut. The bolt is threaded into the swivel casting, and the nut at the other end only holds the shield on. Then slide the shield off towards the front of the car. If you undo the bracket on top, it lets air into the swivel, and whatever oil may leak out. If you have provision for a drain on the swivel, use it now.

Now the shafts come out. This actually is a shot of it going back in, with the fluid grease applied. It's really good in that you squirt it in, and it stays put whilst you reassemble.

This is the reverse of the stub axle assembly. I've already removed the old seal and the axle bearing. It's a roller bearing type encased in a sturdy race.When I removed the seal, I found that provided I used a medium screwdriver, I could tap the bearing out using the old seal as a drift, and that way there was no damage to the bearing. Putting the new seal in was no problem, just gentle taps with screwdriver to seat it at the bottom. There is a ridge just above it, so you can tell if it's sitting square or not. I used the old seal as a drift to protect the bearing on reassembly, as it is a bit tight going back in. Fortunatly I didn't bend anything and it went in ok.

Take your steering links off, undo and remove the top swivel pin, and undo the small bolts that hold the big seal at the back of the swivel, and remove the casing.

This is where purists may faint with shock. Those bolts that hold the swivel to the diff cannot be undone with a regular sized (ie height not dia) socket. There's no space to fit it. I found that using a sidchrome 12 point 9/16 or 14mm ring spanner works well. To break the loctite, I used a hammer on the end of the spanner. And, to judge the right torque on doing it up, when the tone of the hammer changed, I knew I was close to tight. But there ain't any way to get a torque wrench in there - so that's how I solved that problem.

And here is the little seal that lets in the oil. The new one goes in facing outwards. Reassemble, remembering to hang the big seal and metal frame before putting the ball back on the diff, use loctite and don't worry about which way is up - it only goes on one way.

Before you put the big seal back in position, check preload on the swivel. After 12 years untouched, it needed removal of two of the very thin shims to get the right preload. It actually cured a wobble at 85kmph I've had for a long while.

So there you go.

PS: I used a big syringe designed to put icing on cakes to inject the rest of the semi fluid grease into the hub - $4 from Kmart. Works a treat.

**Jojo** · 5th December 2006, 06:24 AM

Thanks, Langy!!!!
I will have to do exactly this job soon (and some others as well). It is great to have your description at hand! Makes life much easier for me, mate!
And how clean your swivel balls are...

Cheers

**Blknight.aus** · 5th December 2006, 07:32 AM

Not picking thats a great job youve done but....

the bolts are 12 point bolts not 16. (think 2 normal nuts ofset 30 degrees and pressed together

you can get a torque wrench onto the hidden bolt but its a special one that attaches to a normal type spanner (I'll get pics of my work one when I go in for paper work today)

The next correct solution is to (I'll work in foot pounds its easier for me) is to get a 1 foot long double ring spanner and a srping gauge, measure center to center to of the spanner to get your "pull radius" for now we'll go with 1 foot, now attach your spring gauge to the other ring and pull at 90 degrees to the axis of rotation untill you apply the desired # of pounds. basically keep the spring gauge at 90 degrees to the spanner and on the same plane as the spanner or your setting will be out.

if you cant get a foot long spanner you can still use this method but need to use the following formula

ftlb(N)/Spanner(DF)=lb(S)

ftlb(N) will equal the known foot pounds of pull you need
spanner(DF) will equal decimal feet (formula for that next)
lb(S) will indicate the required reading on the spring gauge to get your desired torque setting.

to get your spanner length in decimal feet.
measure your ring spanner from ring center to ring center and divide this number by 12... the common conversions are below

inches=decimal feet
1 0.083333333
2 0.166666667
3 0.25
4 0.333333333
5 0.416666667
6 0.5
7 0.583333333
8 0.666666667
9 0.75
10 0.833333333
11 0.916666667
12 1

IF you cant get the specified grease you have a few options

1. use CV joint grease from almost anyone who builds front wheel drives, its usually a white or grey goop about as thick as tooth paste
2. Use chainsaw bar lube.
3. thin down normal grease with gearbox oil (80/90)

or my fave

use molybdenum Disulphide grease and mix it down with some 80/90

when you get it right you should have something that is a nice grey/silver color(depending on your suppliers dye choice) and is about as thick as high quality shampoo.

hope its helpful to you

**chazza** · 5th December 2006, 08:41 AM

ftlb(N)/Spanner(DF)=lb(S)

Pardon my mathematical inability Dave, but does the above formula mean to multiply N by DF?

Cheers Chazza

**byron** · 5th December 2006, 08:53 AM

I wish there was a similar "show-n- tell" for converting earlier Disco and RR Classic wheel bearings to "Oil Lubrication" i.e. running in the swivel oil [80/90 Gear Oil or Molybdenum Disulphide Grease and Gear Oil Mix [my favourite for the swivels!]!!!!!!!!!

I want to change my "greased" [I hope!!] front wheel bearings to liquid lubrication, but thus far haven't got up the confidence/energy to tackle the relatively simple but unknown job.

BTW......can you run the rear wheel bearings in gear oil from the diff/ axle tubes in a similar fashion, by changing the type of seals you use?

**Blknight.aus** · 5th December 2006, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by chazza

ftlb(N)/Spanner(DF)=lb(S)

Pardon my mathematical inability Dave, but does the above formula mean to multiply N by DF?

Cheers Chazza

nope it means divide / is divide on a computer/spreadsheat and * is multiply ^x is raise to the power of x (multiply by itself x times) + and - i wont insult you with
ie
3/2=1.5
3*2=6
3^2=9

so expressed in english ftlb(N)/Spanner(DF)=lb(S) becomes

divide your wanted foot pounds of torque by the length of the spanner(in decimal feet) to get the number of pounds of force you need to exert.

for example

if I want 100 ft lbs of torque and I have 3 spanners 1 6 inches one 12 inches and one 18 inches (.5,1and 1.5 decimal feet) the formulas look like this (using N, DF and S from the previous post)

1. (6 inch)
100(N)/.5(DF)=200(S)
2. (12inch)
100(N)/1(DF)=100(S)
3. (18inch)
100(N)/1.5(DF)=66.6~(S)

as you can see the longer the spanner the less effort I need to exert...

The decimal feet thing is important.... 18 inches expressed in feet can be done as
1'6" (normal method for measurements)
1.6 feet (as above but without the " ' and inserting a . with 1.12being equal to 2.0 (base 12 math))
1 6/12 only seen it in nautical stuff and some medical type records
or
1.5 (decimal feet)

the big problem being with the 1.6 in one equals 1.5 in the other and unless you already know what method your working from well you get the idea

confusion reigns with the imperial stuff hey.

**ladas** · 5th December 2006, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by chazza

ftlb(N)/Spanner(DF)=lb(S)

Pardon my mathematical inability Dave, but does the above formula mean to multiply N by DF?

Cheers Chazza

May not have interpreted Dave's formulae but / normally means divide not multiply

Ladas

**DEFENDERZOOK** · 5th December 2006, 07:21 PM

also....another good point with land rovers is......
for those of you with mega lifts that require the caster to be changed......its easy on the rovers.....

you dont need to cut and weld brackets on the diff housings......in order to change the caster angles.....

you simply have the holes on the swivel hub flanges elongated and you just turn the housing to give you the caster angle required..........

then.... simply drill and tap a locking grub screw to stop it from moving on the rough stuff.....

**Blknight.aus** · 5th December 2006, 07:26 PM

bahh humbug zookie, just heat the locating arms up and bendem a bit... since we're being butcherous and all...

**DEFENDERZOOK** · 5th December 2006, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

bahh humbug zookie, just heat the locating arms up and bendem a bit... since we're being butcherous and all...

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I wish there was a similar "show-n- tell" for converting earlier Disco to Oiled Beari

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