Thread: Caution with E10 fuel

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

Well you learn something every day.

My impression was that the octane had something to do with "power" generated in an engine by the fuel and that was why tractors and old utes used low octane "Standard grade" fuel, while high-performance engines like aircraft used hi-octane fuel.

See what happens when you don't research something!

Thanks Guys!

Higher RON fuel means you can run higher compression ratios (and or higher boost) and more aggressive advance curves without knock. So there is a correlation between RON and performance, but only if the engine is designed and/or tuning adjusted to make the most of it.

As an aside...
Aviation gasoline in AU still has large amounts of TEL in it to reach levels of 100 RON. Other countries have switched to 100LL (LL= low lead). Most aero engiones are very low tech/old designs, and the lead adds a bit of protection against burnt valves.

In unleaded fuels, aromatics like toluene and xylene are added to increase RON to the desired level. The fuel standard limits Benzene (to ~1% IRC) due to it's potential carcenogenic properties.

croc wrote,..

drive 1976 petrol Series 3 and have the drip feed lead replacement fitted.
I have noticed that my local servo (Shell Woy Woy ) no longer offers standard unleaded only unleaded + E10 and unleaded premium - at a very premium price. I understand the removal of standard unleaded is an ongoing process. Does anybody know if E10 fuel is ok for use in series landrovers provided that it is not left idle for long periods of time?.

Hello Croc,

My understanding is that E10 should never be used in an engine that runs with a carburettor. The blend does not atomise like straight petrol will, so running problems will ensue. There is also the problem of corrosion within the carburettor and damage to the fuel lines, all not designed to withstand the effects of E10.

Ron.

Thanks for the info Ron, looks like when all the servos cut out we all will have to pay the extra for 95. I have heard it said that 95 may increase mpg that would be nice .

Originally Posted by RoverP6B

croc wrote,..

Hello Croc,

My understanding is that E10 should never be used in an engine that runs with a carburettor. The blend does not atomise like straight petrol will, so running problems will ensue. There is also the problem of corrosion within the carburettor and damage to the fuel lines, all not designed to withstand the effects of E10.

Ron.

My 1973 Series III showed no ill effects after about 200,000 km of running on E10. The components might not have been specifically designed for E10, but that doesn't necessarily mean they can't handle it. I have done about a quarter of a million kilometres in 1973 and 1988 vehicles and have not seen any of the problems that theoretically could occur.

Originally Posted by croc

Thanks for the info Ron, looks like when all the servos cut out we all will have to pay the extra for 95. I have heard it said that 95 may increase mpg that would be nice .

A few years back, I was assured by several friends and I repeatedly heard from various other sources that I would "get 50 to 100km extra out of each tank" if I used premium unleaded. I tried three tanks of premium in my 1988 Camry and kept careful records of the fuel consumption. I continued to get exactly the same consumption that I had been getting for the previous five years, mostly on E10.

Some engines may give better power or economy on 95. A lot won't. I think that most engines, especially older engines that are quite happy with ordinary unleaded or E10 will get absolutely no benefit from 95.

A lot of people are panicking unnecessarily about E10.

Fresh E10 is pretty safe, even in OPE, but kept for any length of time the ethanol's hygroscopic nature can cause problems, and most OPE manufacturers recommend against any more than 10% ethanol, voiding warranty with any fuel running more ethanol than that.

Interestingly I noticed on the bowser in a Shell servo last week that it said
"not for boating or garden equipment"

I've seen some horror pictures of saws and trimmers where someone has used E10 or E15 and left it for twelve months in a humid environment.
One saw mechanic posted some pictures last week of a Stihl saw that was still on it's first tank of fuel (twelve months old) that had to have the crank, bearings rod and carby replaced due to corrosion.

Originally Posted by rick130

Fresh E10 is pretty safe, even in OPE, but kept for any length of time the ethanol's hygroscopic nature can cause problems, and most OPE manufacturers recommend against any more than 10% ethanol, voiding warranty with any fuel running more ethanol than that.

Interestingly I noticed on the bowser in a Shell servo last week that it said
"not for boating or garden equipment"

I've seen some horror pictures of saws and trimmers where someone has used E10 or E15 and left it for twelve months in a humid environment.
One saw mechanic posted some pictures last week of a Stihl saw that was still on it's first tank of fuel (twelve months old) that had to have the crank, bearings rod and carby replaced due to corrosion.

So what are you going to run them on when unleaded without ethanol is phased out (already announced in NSW)?

John

Originally Posted by isuzurover

........
As an aside...
Aviation gasoline in AU still has large amounts of TEL in it to reach levels of 100 RON. Other countries have switched to 100LL (LL= low lead). Most aero engiones are very low tech/old designs, and the lead adds a bit of protection against burnt valves.
......

I am surprised to hear that since 100/130 was replaced by 100LL in Australia about twenty years ago. Since a lot of 100LL is imported are you saying that it is formulated differently for Australia?

100LL still has a considerable amount of lead in it though - and maybe this is what you are thinking of. (The LL stand for "low lead" compared to 100/130, not "no lead")

Also worth noting that a number of the older design aircraft engines originally specifying 80/87 or 70/73 fuel have been approved to run on unleaded motor spirit, although this depends on the specific aircraft installation, as the major concern is the higher vapour pressure of motor spirit compared to aviation spirit and vapour lock depends on routing of fuel lines etc.

John

Originally Posted by JDNSW

So what are you going to run them on when unleaded without ethanol is phased out (already announced in NSW)?

John

You should regularly drain OPE if using E10 (although some manufacturers are recommending against using it at all)
or just do what i do and use PULP.
AFAIK there won't be any ethanol in 98 RON fuel, or at least there isn't so far.