Thread: Running tubeless on tube type rims

Originally Posted by B92 8NW

No, I think Commodores are very good cars, and I'd have one, unlike you

Can't say to much, as rear tyres on my Jag only last about 2-3,oo0klms, but its not the IRS scrubbing them

Originally Posted by PAT303

CHT there is a good reason why the mines do not run split rims,they are a stupid thing on a vehicle that goes in mud,you can't balance the stupid things,they never run straight because of the beating they get trying to get them apart(see the first reason)

I work in the mining industry, specifically in Safety.

While I agree with about the balancing running true issues, the reason most mining companies dont run split rims is due to the potential for them to cause an injury when changing tyres (percieved or real).

Thats right,but the reason it is an issue is because they are easily damaged by hitting something eg rocks etc or buy removing,fitting them as they aren't that robust.They also don't seat properly when the rim is bent,very common or there is the slightest bit of dirt on the mating surfaces.In the end they are more trouble than their worth and if you find that you are getting tyre damage were the tyre needs to be removed from the rim you should look at your driving habits,style or go to tougher tyres. Pat

Geez, this one pops up semi-regularly, doesn't it....

Like Pat, I've run tubeless on tubed rims for years, for me, it's a safety thing.

Yep, safety.
A couple of reasons why.

1. tubes make the whole carcass run a lot hotter. heat kills tyres.
The tubes also weld themselves to the inside of the tyre, not good.

2. a lot of tubeless tyres rub through the bloody tubes via chaffing. They aren't designed for tubes (and a lot of tubeless tyres aren't specified/legal for tubes either)

3. having had a puncture at 110km/h through a corner running tubes, the frigging things roll clean off the rim anyway, so the argument that you need the safety bead is moot...... (luckily it was the inside/unloaded front tyre)

4. the 130 HD rim has a very wide bead anyway.....

5. never rolled a tyre off the rim, even when aired down to the low twenties on dirt/gravel roads and driven at stupid speeds thrown sideways into corners....

All 5 points from actual experience, not heresay....
None of this is a recommendation or suggestion to try, if you do so it is at your own risk, check into the legal ramifications before hand, yada yada, etc, etc.....

Originally Posted by PAT303

Thats right,but the reason it is an issue is because they are easily damaged by hitting something eg rocks etc or buy removing,fitting them as they aren't that robust.They also don't seat properly when the rim is bent,very common or there is the slightest bit of dirt on the mating surfaces.In the end they are more trouble than their worth and if you find that you are getting tyre damage were the tyre needs to be removed from the rim you should look at your driving habits,style or go to tougher tyres. Pat

You have just hit the nail right on the head as far as covering the reasons that you your self have posted for why to not run tubes and Rick has basically repeated below.

The roads are not a race track and there is very little reason to throw a LR sideways at speed or be heading toward a corner at a speed that you will lose control on the already deflating tyre that you mest have if it is going to roll off the rim and make you end up in someons front lawn.

Originally Posted by rick130

Geez, this one pops up semi-regularly, doesn't it....

Like Pat, I've run tubeless on tubed rims for years, for me, it's a safety thing.

Yep, safety.
A couple of reasons why.

1. tubes make the whole carcass run a lot hotter. heat kills tyres.
The tubes also weld themselves to the inside of the tyre, not good.

2. a lot of tubeless tyres rub through the bloody tubes via chaffing. They aren't designed for tubes (and a lot of tubeless tyres aren't specified/legal for tubes either)

3. having had a puncture at 110km/h through a corner running tubes, the frigging things roll clean off the rim anyway, so the argument that you need the safety bead is moot...... (luckily it was the inside/unloaded front tyre)

4. the 130 HD rim has a very wide bead anyway.....

5. never rolled a tyre off the rim, even when aired down to the low twenties on dirt/gravel roads and driven at stupid speeds thrown sideways into corners....

All 5 points from actual experience, not heresay....
None of this is a recommendation or suggestion to try, if you do so it is at your own risk, check into the legal ramifications before hand, yada yada, etc, etc.....

Thats not reasons why not to Rick, as Ive said above, it's why you dont drive like that.

Ive rolled tyres off split rims in a landcruiser HJ40 we had on the farm when I was a kid chasing cattle but I had the tyres deflated and I was hooking in.

The lesson I learned was it heart a lot less to spend more time training your dog than nearly rolling yor 40 and whacking your head on the B pillar becasue your driving like a nut trying to do the work of a dog.

As far as the damage to tyres and tubes........crap..

Ive run all types of tubeless tyres with tubes and other than the self repairing ones that are run on jags etc or the low profile jobs, if you fit the correct size tube and inflate it correctly then it wont cause any adsverse effect other than so slight heat build up which has been prooven by just about every tyre co around.

As ive stated before, the only advantage is to your pocket on the initial fit up, other than that there are only negatives.

Take Ricks advice though and if your going to fit up tubless to tubed rims then check out the legalities first, Vic roads Guidlines (VRG 08 off the top of my head) will give you the legalities but it is a maze to find what you want and you would be best to call them to get the correct info.

Manufacturers will most likely have some information as well so try that.

There is a risk so remeber your doing it at the risk that if it's found that the tyre was fitted incorrectly and you knew about it as well as it is prooved it caused an accident, not many insurers will cover it and if someone is hurt or killed then there may be legal backlash there aswell so a lot of caution should be used in this sort of case.

By the way, OH&S is a factor as well if it is a work vehicle as well as if it is used off road for business e.g. on a farm.

Just some food for thought, Im not having a go at anyone.

Originally Posted by mcrover

<snip>

As far as the damage to tyres and tubes........crap..

Ive run all types of tubeless tyres with tubes and other than the self repairing ones that are run on jags etc or the low profile jobs, if you fit the correct size tube and inflate it correctly then it wont cause any adsverse effect other than so slight heat build up which has been prooven by just about every tyre co around.

<snip>

Sorry Mc but I believe that's crap. I've welded a succession of tubes to tyres, almost every tube I had, and the only thing that can cause that is too much heat.
High speeds, heavily loaded in summer isn't friendly to tubes and tyres that aren't designed for tubes, granted, JMO.

FWIW it was recommended to me by a tyre shop to run them tubeless after I had the blow out.
The cause ? We believe heat/chaffing.
Was excessive speed involved in that incident ?
Well, yes, I was going 10km/h indicated over the posted limit. On 235/85's fitted to a Defender that'd equate to about 102 km/h actual speed in a 100km/h speed zone and yes, I'm pretty pedantic about pressures.

I believe the better tubes are Michelin (if you can get them) the Korean ones I always used tend to chafe through far too quickly on the inside of the tyres I've used them on (Bridgestone's and BFG's) and running tubeless you tend not to have the sudden deflations you have with tubes, unless you don't pick/feel the soggy tyre going down and they overheat and blow out......

Anyway, they are my experiences and reasons why I've done what I've done to suit where I operate with the loads, etc etc.

Originally Posted by rick130

Sorry Mc but I believe that's crap. I've welded a succession of tubes to tyres, almost every tube I had, and the only thing that can cause that is too much heat.
High speeds, heavily loaded in summer isn't friendly to tubes and tyres that aren't designed for tubes, granted, JMO.

FWIW it was recommended to me by a tyre shop to run them tubeless after I had the blow out.
The cause ? We believe heat/chaffing.
Was excessive speed involved in that incident ?
Well, yes, I was going 10km/h indicated over the posted limit. On 235/85's fitted to a Defender that'd equate to about 102 km/h actual speed in a 100km/h speed zone and yes, I'm pretty pedantic about pressures.

I believe the better tubes are Michelin (if you can get them) the Korean ones I always used tend to chafe through far too quickly on the inside of the tyres I've used them on (Bridgestone's and BFG's) and running tubeless you tend not to have the sudden deflations you have with tubes, unless you don't pick/feel the soggy tyre going down and they overheat and blow out......

Again, your fighting your own battle here.....

Mitchy tubes are more likely to mould themselves to your tyre because they are generally designed to do that they have a kind of glue to stop them from moving in the tyre in deflated situations.......does it work.....makes it bloody hard to remove the tyre when they are fitted I know that.

If tubes are so bad then how do you fit BFG AT or MT to split rims...both are tubeless tyres but all splits require tubes and heaps of people fit them to cruisers.

I say this as they are a prime example as when we went to central australia 2 years ago I was running on on the rear of the loaded Disco with a Kenda tube with a repair on it and didnt have a problem.

Actually that tyre (after the initial repair) didnt have another flat for the life of the tyres.

There are a couple of tubes which are not recomended in tubeless tyres and these normally are no longer available or are special order stuff for vintage cars and are made of natural rubber not the synthetic stuff they are today.

As far as not noticing a deflating tyre If you dont feel it then your not paying attention, as the car tends to pull to one side, steering becomes vague etc so you would have to be blatently not paying attention not to notice.

Sudden deflations from tubes are not as comon as you are making out, they are normally caused by damage from a nail or the like that has been working on a hole for a while and/or a tube that is too small being fitted.

Rubbing inside a tyre is normally from under inflation or a tube too big being fitted.

If they are soo bad (as with split rims) then why do the gov specify that what your doing is incorrect fitment, why do they still use spits and tubes on trucks and why is it still a recomended repair (which is road worthy) to fit a tube in a tubeless tyre?