Thread: R380 5th gear

Originally Posted by vnx205

I was a bit worried by the fuzz on my gearbox plug when I changed the oil last week.

The oil that came out looked pretty much like the Penrite 75 I put in.

Within a few days the noise in 5th gear went from something I could barely hear to something I couldn't ignore.

Deciding the noise was associated with 5th gear was an educational experience as I don't have the benefit of having heard an R380 with a noisy 5th gear.

At first there was just a faint noise when I accelerated in 5th and I tried to convince myself that it had something to do with the turbo because it disappeared completely if I wasn't accelerating.

Within a few minutes it became easier to produce the noise while accelerating in 5th.

When I convinced myself that I didn't want to hear noises from the turbo, I tried accelerating in 4th. Not a sound. Same result in the lower gears.

I also managed to hear a faint noise in reverse that hadn't been there before.

For reasons that aren't relevant here, I had to drive the Defender a little bit over the next few days. 1st to 4th gears remained quiet, so I just drove in 4th and sat on 80-85kmh. Once or twice I briefly tried 5th to see if it had got worse. It was still the same. There was no noise at all until it was under load.

Several hours of reading every single post I could find on the forum that mentioned R380, 5th gear or anything else I could think of convinced me that I might just need to replace a bearing on the 5th gear shaft in the extension housing.

This post by Justinc:
5TH Gear
and another similar one convinced me that it could be done without removing the whole gearbox.

When I drained the oil in preparation for some repairs, I found I had grown a lot of fuzz in just a few hundred kilometres. (See attached picture of gearbox and transfer case plugs)

I'm hoping the little bit on the TF plug is normal for a couple of years.

So at this stage I have the transfer case out, (No mean feat when you're working by yourself and don't have a trolley jack. I'll borrow one to put it back in.)

Someone's suggestion about some long 12M bolts to serve as guides to slide the transfer case back worked a treat. I would acknowledge the member who suggested that, but having seen the thread with the idea complete pictures, I have spent ages searching for it but can't find it a second time.

I hope someone is still reading, especially Justinc, because I have some questions.

I have the Landy Collection CD with the workshop manuals for the Defender, the R380 and the LT230 and they have served me well up until now.

However by doing the job with the gearbox in situ, I seem to be deviating from the methods described in those manuals.

So my questions are:
Do I have a type A,B.C or D gearbox?
Should I be able to work that out for myself?
Does it matter which one I have?
And most important:
Is there anything I need to do or be careful about because I am doing the job with the gearbox still in the vehicle.

The type of trans just refers to the application, IE defender V8, Defender Tdi, Defender 4 cyl petrol, Disco etc, and 2 wheel drive applications such as TVR and MGR V8 etc. The pics will show you which one you have, I can't remember but I think yours should be a type c??
The repair insitu is quite straightforward, the only issue I can think of is the ability to reseal with a decent sealant when reassembling due to the oil everywhere between the case halves. To date I have had success using brake cleaner in a pressure pack and blowing out with compressed air.
Anyway, You can give me a call if you are stuck, 0408 995 635.

JC

People get alarmed at metal paste on gearbox plugs but it is all normal.If the gearbox is making noises then something is amiss but paste is very normal. Pat

Originally Posted by PAT303

People get alarmed at metal paste on gearbox plugs but it is all normal.If the gearbox is making noises then something is amiss but paste is very normal. Pat

Correct.

JC

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/908428-post4.html

if this is the one, it is Dave you want to thank.

Originally Posted by slug_burner

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/908428-post4.html

if this is the one, it is Dave you want to thank.

I read that one a couple of times.

I'm more than willing to thank Dave for confirming that it's a good trick to use, but I'm sure I saw an earlier one that had pictures as well.

The one I saw suggested bolts with the heads cut off rather than threaded rod, but it's the same principle and it worked for me.

At least it made it possible for me to remove it safely by myself.

I'm confident that with assistance it will help me get it back in place.

Originally Posted by slug_burner

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/908428-post4.html

if this is the one, it is Dave you want to thank.

That's actually for sliding the 'box back from the bellhousing, but it's the same idea.

I hope the problem I've found is the only one there is to find.

My gearbox now looks like this.



And I found the 5th gear layshaft bearing inner race and rollers look like this.
Is that the one that normally fails?



The good news is that the splines on the output shaft look like this after 158,000km.



The gear that fits on that shaft also looks almost like new. There is no sign that the gearbox has ever been worked on so it seems that by 1998 LR had worked out how to avoid the problem suffered by the early R380s. Mine of course has the four holes.

I have been able to get this far with just one special tool. The collar on the shaft had to be removed. Fortunately Tank, who lives only about 20mins away has a you beaut hydraulic puller with all sorts of attachments.

He not only brought the puller over yesterday, he also helped me with the task of removing the collar.

There is certainly no way I could have budged that collar with anything less than Tank's puller. After Tank fitted the clamp behind the collar, I was under the vehicle turning the handle to apply pressure.

If I remember correctly, it went something like this.

Tank: OK, turn the handle a bit harder.
Me: That's about as hard as I can manage.
Tank: You've applied 10 tons of pressure to that collar and it hasn't moved yet. Try harder.
Me: I'm trying to, but it's just bending the handle. Maybe I should tap the collar with a hammer.
Tank: That seems to have moved it a bit.
Me: Yes, I can turn the handle a bit more now.
Tank: Here use my hammer instead. It's bigger than yours.

.... and so it went until it finally came off.

I'm hoping that bearing from the back of the 5th gear layshaft is the only problem, partly because to go much further I begin to need more special tools.

Since everything else sounds pretty quiet and the bits I can see look pretty good with no sign of movement anywhere, does it seem reasonable to stop at this point or is there some other part that is known to be troublesome?

I still plan to inspect with a magnifying glass all the gears I can see, but I'm pretty confident they are unmarked.

I was hoping to just replace that bearing, the collar on the mainshaft and any seals that have been exposed, like the one at the front of the transfer case that goes on that collar.

Does anyone have any contrary advice, bearing in mind that there have been no other signs of problems apart from what was described in the first post?

I was a bit worried when I first saw the way the oil filter fits on the oil pipe. It is a pretty ordinary sort of fit. The problem was I had the wrong idea about which way the oil flows. (I think)

Am I right in thinking that the oil from the pump goes up through various mysterious places and then returns via that pipe at the bottom of the extension housing to the inside of the filter? It that is the case then the filter doesn't have to be perfectly sealed on the pipe. Does that sound right?

It doesn't sound right to me. Oil would be picked up from bottom of box and then pumped via oil feeds to higher up in box, then would come down running over what ever was in the way under gravity.