Thread: Adaptor shaft

Forgot, the distance from front of t/c to front of race is 30mm approx - hard to measure with oil seal in place.

Bolt holes look to be 100mm across or 50mm radius centres, but they are not set at 90 intervals. Included angles according to the old school protractor are 72.5 and 107.5 = 180.

Lotza. Can't answer as to whether the MSA flange is true. I can only go by Outcasts 0% failures todate (won't say it can't happend) and maybe 50% failure of Sheldon units in terms of a broken shaft and failed boxes with damaged shafts. Until Vern hands his shaft over for testing we won't know for sure the root cause, unless the case is obviously broken when Vern gets it off.

Re the flanges - there are no pegs, however, the MSA has a male witness ring and the Outcast has a female witness ring recess - the two come together with a friction fit as the 4 flange bolts are tightened.

Lotza. Your diagram is along the lines of Dougal and Sitec - common problem of applying preload to the MSA output gear.

Not sure but I think the question that was asked was about cutting the internal splines. External splines are easy to cut. Internals are not. Dougal EDMed his internals I guess for this reason, but the process did not go well, but it did survive as long as he was an aulro contributor - we should go over to 4bswappers and hassle him

In regard to retaining the floating shaft in your proposal, I've previously drawn up and presented propositions for dentent or 'c' clip.

To me it is how do we keep this as much as possible off the shelf and field fixable.

I have no objection to the engineering principles of a reworked gearbox mainshaft straight to the t/c input gear - as per comments by Marks Adaptors, but $$$ and disaster if it breaks and back to more $$$.

Again no objection to engineering principles of a spud shaft that runs from the MSA output spline to the input gear SAE10, again used by Marks for run of the mill power applications, but again $$$, and issues with preloads etc, and not off the shelf so if breaks $$$.

I get the impression that Marks will not release any product without destruction testing to safeguard themselves. And that cost gets passed on to the purchaser. For a one off buy you'll need to make and pay for two. Interesting to see how Barry structure costs.

I think we are too used to seeing $500 to $1,500 high quality adaptor kits (cases and shafts) in the US and UK, that are produced I would guess in 100's of units per application but don't suit us. We just don't have volume to get those prices I would think.

Again, if we take the quote got by Ancient you are looking at $1,200 for the shaft only if you can get 4 people to commit - no spares, no case, no off the shelf if it breaks (not that I think it will, but you never know if you put it into a Sheldon case without regard to ensuring it is really rigid).

Outcast said, and I believe I posted, if they had got 10 orders or so then the price might have been $2,500 - cost of two Ancient shafts. Bulk purchase under CNC is the secret to low price - that is why I want to keep the fabricated part as short and simple as possible so I can buy quite a few as spares.

Ancient with his designs has made the point that nothing is going to brake on the MSA side of things - it will be Rover SAE side first, and even that is a proven application provided you lube it.

But Sitec seems to say why should anything be allowed to break - but he also is dealing with more power I believe - it would be interesting to know what his UK apprentice is charging for replications of Sitecs weld idea.

The alternative is to man up with significant money and get a Marks straight line spud shaft ensuring max strength throughout, including moving away from SAE10 in the input shaft ie even more money, spend big once and hope you never have to again - but also solve the peload to the MSA.

Anyway, Verns learning Chinese so he can do a bulk purchase for us...

Have added at bottom representation of back to back MSA flanges for Vern. All lengths are to scale. Pictorial element isn't - just used for clarification.

Forgot to add, the 30mm distance marked out at the MSA gearbox face represent a small rise cause by the bearing, followed by a spacer, then the speedo cable worm gear - all of which must be retained.

Also forgot to label the extent to which the MSA shaft extends beyond the MSA flange - 11mm

IMGP3250.jpg

I know cutting internal splines are difficult, but not impossible, the shoulder to torque up the MSA will be the problem. It is why I was suggesting a plug pinned (or even welded) in place from the outside. That way the internally splined tube can be cut with a die. There may even be off the shelf items if we look around. Back in the 1970s before the internet it was amazing what we found by studying parts manuals.

With the flange idea, the only way that I can see that system working is if we have the MSA flange machined to be true, balanced and dowelled to interface exactly with the LT230 end. Even if that means making a new one.

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

With the flange idea, the only way that I can see that system working is if we have the MSA flange machined to be true, balanced and dowelled to interface exactly with the LT230 end.

That's what I plan on doing. Just need to find one oneday

Don't quite understand the idea of doweling in this context. Is it simply for alignment, in which case doesn't the witness ring do the same thing? If it is to stop the two flange faces from sliding past each other then don't the flange bolts do that?