Thread: 2017 Ford V8 Supercar?

This is an interesting thread... I'm a bit of a motorsport fan - watching F1, Supercards, WRC, speedweek, etc.

I started to lose interest in the V8's when they banned the Nissan GTR, simply because they couldn't beat it. It used to be "build a better car, win on Sunday, sell on Monday".. Nissan developed the car to the current rules, but the local guys (Ford/Holden) couldn't compete with the likes of Nissan (who obviously have huge pockets) - so they conspired to create the V8 Supercars.. If you can't beat 'em - ban em... Even then I still watched the V8s for a while, but really started to lose interest when they started on the "parity" formulas... Same gearbox, same diffs - for the last few years you can't go out and buy a Falcon or Commodore that is raced in the series.. Yet some people must love it!!!

When Gav mentions greed - I think that he is suggesting corporate greed. Once upon a time people would drive their cars (sometimes even running them in) to the track.. But those days are long, long gone.. The "mighty dollar" eventually kills most sports (in my eyes).

Anyway - I like most forms of motorsport, and even had a Cams license a few years ago competing in basic club events, but I no longer have the passion that I once did.

The coverage is great on Foxtel (which I have so that I can watch the V8s and F1), but I found this year that I don't watch every race, when once I would have.

Carry on! Different strokes for differnt folks as they say!

Originally Posted by Pickles2

All is good my friend, all is good.
Like I said, ya can't keep everyone happy, but I'm glad ya're an avid motor sport fan.
I'm afraid ya've gotta have parity,..it exists in most forms of motor sport incl F1.
Foxtel?...couldn't care less about Foxtel, if it fails tomorrow, then so be it?..it'll be Supercars admin's people's job to find another medium,....I don't care, as long as I can watch it, but the coverage now, is better than it's ever been.
The cost,....is marginal,...it is in fact zilch when compared to the entry fees to circuits, which are simply outrageous,..but of course so is entry to many sports.
Last time I went to Sandown I had a freebie, but I couldn't believe the number of people I saw buying family weekend passes,....for a family $2-300 AT LEAST, then ya've got ya food & all that sort of stuff,....not for me,...that's why I watch it on Foxtel, & if that ain't there, well, I don't know,...hopefully some other way,....but I ain't going to a circuit,....unless I get a corporate pass, which I've had a couple of times,...and that is the way to go,....but I don't "know" anyone these days, so there's not much hope of that!
Ch 7?...Mate, they've got HUGELY "Deep Pockets",....that's why they've got AFL (biggest Aussie sponsorship deal EVER), and the tennis. They just didn't want Supercars, which is fair enough,..and I tell you what Gav,...the ads on Foxtel are miniscule, compared to FTA.
Just one thing mate, "ruined by the greed of a few"?..Not quite sure what you mean by that, so if you could explain, that would be good.
Why I say that, is because, as I've already said, there's not too much "greed" around, infact, there ain't many "dollars" around. Would I put any of my money into Supercars (if I had any!!)?...the answer to that is NO WAY. I don't know how anyone gets a proper return on their dollars. I know of a few teams that would be having very serious concerns at the moment.
That's half, well not half, its pretty much all of the problem,....the corporate dollar is just not there.
But, at the end of the day, some people must think there's value, otherwise why would one of the biggest & most professional motorsport identities get involved in our little series, which is literally chicken feed compared to the stuff He does? I actually don't know why He did get involved!!?
Pickles.

Ads on Foxtel are terrible - far far worse than FTA for 3 reasons - for a start, it's a paid service so why do you have to pay to watch ads? You don't on any other service like this. Secondly the ads are the same EVERY SINGLE AD BREAK, and thirdly - they syncronise the ads accross all channels so you can't channel surf and get away from them.

Those are the main reasons that I told them to **** off - just couldn't take 20 minutes in the hour of the same adverts - I've got better things to do with my time.

The greed I was refering to was Corporate greed - they jumped at the biggest dollar rather than think about who they are putting this on for. As for the entry fees versus foxtel subs - the people I'm talking about couldn't afford to do that either, so they go without - like most things these days. The gap between the haves and have nots is just getting wider by small increments and this is exactly one of those things that are contributing - corporate greed, plain and simple. But that's a discussion for another place and time.

Enjoy the racing, I really mean that - I wish I could, but it just doesn't float my boat any more.

Well Gav, you raised "corporate greed" not me mate,...I still don't know what you mean. No-one jumped at the "BIGGEST" dollar, ..it was the ONLY dollar. And if the Foxtel deal hadn't been done, there might not be any Supercars, because the Foxtel dollars contribute to a great deal of the running costs of the sport,...no-one else was coming up with the dollars? I could go into what happened with Tony Cochran & co, but to use your words "this ain't the place". but if anyone was following at the time, they'd know what happened.
The "Ads"?...don't care "what" they are mate,..ya know why?.....'cause I don't take any notice of 'em,...none!!...but I'm really happy they are nowhere near as long as they are on FTA. I'd actually forgotten how long FTA ads were until I missed a Foxtel Supercars telecast, so I had to watch Ch 10 highlights, at which time I did notice, big time, the ads!!.
Gav, the ads on Foxtel are no where near 20 mins in the hour, that is what they are on FTA, and this was one of Foxtel's selling points,...far less ads.
"Mr Ghost". I know what you mean, but they didn't actually ban the GTR, they muzzled it, and they had to, because it was too good, no-one could even come close. It was winning EVERYTHING & getting better every race! That car had 4WD, traction control, a whole "armoury" of electronic aids, & massive power,..and it wasn't even properly developed. The word is that with the benefit of today's technology & development, even current Supercars would not see where it went,....as I said, NINE cars on the grid at Sandown!!..No one is gonna race if they haven't a hope of winning,..which is not the case with Supercars, as lower teams regularly are on the podium.
"Win on Sunday, sell on Monday"..Lol...I remember that phrase well, particularly as I was involved with the Motor Industry. Allan Moffat was the best, and has always been the best promoter of the Ford product in Aus. But today's cars,..no Commodore, No Falcon,...I don't see how it can work today,...unless ya race Hyundai's against Mazda against Toyotas etc, don't see how that can work,...any ideas?
And one MAJOR difference today that affects ALL of the teams,..can you guess what it is?....NO tobacco sponsorship,..made a huge hole.
Pickles.

Originally Posted by Pickles2

Well Gav, you raised "corporate greed" not me mate,...I still don't know what you mean. No-one jumped at the "BIGGEST" dollar, ..it was the ONLY dollar. And if the Foxtel deal hadn't been done, there might not be any Supercars, because the Foxtel dollars contribute to a great deal of the running costs of the sport,...no-one else was coming up with the dollars? I could go into what happened with Tony Cochran & co, but to use your words "this ain't the place". but if anyone was following at the time, they'd know what happened.
The "Ads"?...don't care "what" they are mate,..ya know why?.....'cause I don't take any notice of 'em,...none!!...but I'm really happy they are nowhere near as long as they are on FTA. I'd actually forgotten how long FTA ads were until I missed a Foxtel Supercars telecast, so I had to watch Ch 10 highlights, at which time I did notice, big time, the ads!!.
Gav, the ads on Foxtel are no where near 20 mins in the hour, that is what they are on FTA, and this was one of Foxtel's selling points,...far less ads.
"Mr Ghost". I know what you mean, but they didn't actually ban the GTR, they muzzled it, and they had to, because it was too good, no-one could even come close. It was winning EVERYTHING & getting better every race! That car had 4WD, traction control, a whole "armoury" of electronic aids, & massive power,..and it wasn't even properly developed. The word is that with the benefit of today's technology & development, even current Supercars would not see where it went,....as I said, NINE cars on the grid at Sandown!!..No one is gonna race if they haven't a hope of winning,..which is not the case with Supercars, as lower teams regularly are on the podium.
"Win on Sunday, sell on Monday"..Lol...I remember that phrase well, particularly as I was involved with the Motor Industry. Allan Moffat was the best, and has always been the best promoter of the Ford product in Aus. But today's cars,..no Commodore, No Falcon,...I don't see how it can work today,...unless ya race Hyundai's against Mazda against Toyotas etc, don't see how that can work,...any ideas?
And one MAJOR difference today that affects ALL of the teams,..can you guess what it is?....NO tobacco sponsorship,..made a huge hole.
Pickles.

No, Channel 7 did make an offer (I work for a company within the group) - it was rejected outright by James Warburton and they were asked to come back with a counter offer which they refused to do. It wasn't a rock bottom offer or anything dumb either - it was a 9 figure sum, but after they got a sniff of what Foxtel were offering - over $240 million, they played them off against them.

So they claim they need $40 million a year, plus their (large) share of ticket sales, plus sponsorship to keep the series afloat? Doesn't pass the sniff test as far as I'm concerned.

The GTR was banned - because rather than try and build a car that could compete, they just went and had a sook about it...

Originally Posted by Homestar

No, Channel 7 did make an offer (I work for a company within the group) - it was rejected outright by James Warburton and they were asked to come back with a counter offer which they refused to do. It wasn't a rock bottom offer or anything dumb either - it was a 9 figure sum, but after they got a sniff of what Foxtel were offering - over $240 million, they played them off against them.

So they claim they need $40 million a year, plus their (large) share of ticket sales, plus sponsorship to keep the series afloat? Doesn't pass the sniff test as far as I'm concerned.

The GTR was banned - because rather than try and build a car that could compete, they just went and had a sook about it...

Nope,..it wasn't James Warburton,...it was Mr. Cochran. Ch 7 had an offer on the table, which Cochran refused, and at that time there were no other offers. Cochran would not accept the Ch 7 deal, which was subsequently WITHDRAWN altogether, at which stage V8 Supercars had a big fat NOTHING. That is why the Foxtel "Deal" was accepted,..because they had nothing else!!...and it didn't happen straight away,......for a long time, there was no deal at all (we were all concerned there would be no deal at all!...so no racing), and when the deal was done, it was a lot less than what they were previously been offered from Ch 7, and way less than what they wanted. But it was the ONLY offer, so they had to accept it.
And that lower funding affects Supercars, and particularly the Teams, to this day,...in many ways.
I don't know anything about $40M P.A.plus their large share of ticket sales, plus sponsorship etc, so I can't comment on any "sniff test".
Can you enlighten me? I have NEVER heard anything like that from anyone. Our impression is that Supercars are operating on an extremely tight budget. However, although I do know many involved, I don't know anyone making big dollars, certainly far less than those involved in other Aussie sports, particularly sports like AFL, Tennis, Golf, Horse racing etc which simply cream Supercars when it comes to dollars,....jeez, they simply ain't in the same league! ,... because of where the majority of sponsors come from in Supercars, the dollars just ain't there.
Pickles.

You tell it your way, I'll tell it mine. My info only comes from Middle management of the company involved so who knows...

Why would Tony Cochrane be involved - he sold his share to Archer Capital in 2012 ish for nearly $200M. He's the one that made it great, Warburtons the dude trying his best to **** it now. I though Cochrane was the CEO or something of the Gold Coast Suns by then?

Either way you've just confirmed that Channel 7 made an offer which you said previously they didn't do... ? It was withdrawn after they were extorted to increase it. I would have done the same thing, so Foxtels offer became their default - they had no choice after being such monumental cocks about it.

The $40M a year is what Foxtel pay them - a 6 year contract worth $241M. They also take a large part of the gate and almost all of the sponsorship dollars poured in - there is a lot. Our company pays them a wad load to have their name in certain areas. Think 7 figures, and we are a smallish sponsor. There are dozens of them, with the top 10 tipping in God knows how much.

'Tight Budget' isn't what I'd call it. Those at the top certainly aren't stuggling now are they? The teams get a bit from the buisness but mostly from their own sponsors, so if they're doing it tough that's an entirely different argument - I'm just talking about how much they take compared to what it actually costs to stage the events.

We obviously won't agree on this and have 2 very different views and sources for our info (mines not Google by the way) so I won't waste any more energy here. I am happy to agree to disagree, we've had plenty of chats like this before, and I sure it won't be the last. . Have fun watching them, I won't be joining you.

Gav, your words, where did I say "Channel 7 didn't make an offer"?..in which post?
Tony Cochrane?..Yes, He did HEAPS for V8SC, He was actually the one who took V8SC from the 9 cars I mentioned at Sandown to the "Circus" that it now is,..without Cochran there may have been no V8 Supercars. But He is also the guy that knocked back the original Ch7 offer asking for more,....and it didn't come,..which created a massive crisis at the time, and which is still being felt.
And yep, He did sell out, did well out of it too,..good to know that you know the figures,.... I don't. Warburton is simply the man left to operate on the Foxtel deal forced upon Supercars, who were left with nowhere else to go, by the knock back from Cochran,..who is I think now the CEO of Gold Coast Suns.
Cochran did VERY well, very well indeed, & he ain't popular within Supercars circles now, many feeling "sold out" by him. Warburton is simply the guy trying to keep the show on the road, with less TV sponsorship, but far greater costs than Cochran ever had to contend with. I've never, obviously unlike you, ever heard a bad word about him. I wouldn't want his job! Sponsorship for Teams is now also a lot more difficult, because of the Aussie manufacturing economy, where most sponsorship comes from, unless ya're a Red Bull or a Roger Penske. Things are super tough in the sponsorship environment, which is not Supercars fault,...it just makes their viability a lot more challenging.,...a LOT more.
By the way, I don't get my info from google,..I love the sport, unlike some, always have, & get my info from people who are actually involved. The teams have been directly affected by the lower dollars from Foxtel, everybody has, 'cause those dollars don't stay within the Supercars "beaurocracy",...they go towards running the show,...ALL teams now receive less from "Supercars" because of Cochran's "knockback".....which is a big part of the problem.
Pickles.

Originally Posted by Slunnie

GM apparently are not doing the next Camaro in RHD, Holden are looking to bring in the next Corvette as their flagship performance car, which the next one will apparently be developed as a RHD also.

So apparently you have all the goss on what Gm and Gmh are going to do in oz and i guess the v8 super cars as well .
Is what you say fact or fiction i really would like to know how you know all this as far as i see it your dreaming or just wishful thinking .
Honestly why would they not do a Carmaro as it is based on the Ve ****box platform and all the engineering and durability was done at the proving ground in vic