"Cheaper" oxy-acetylene

**DoubleChevron** · 18th September 2016, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by 101 Ron

I have been dealing with forklifts bottles and automotive LPG for many , many years.
Most of the general public don't restrain gas bottles correctly when in the back of trailer Ute ect.

In the case of a accident they go flying.........human nature.
Filling illegally in the back of a Ute has many problems.
Just the fitting and then release of the filler coupling will leak enough gas in the enclosed space of the Ute to be at the correct mixture to ignite.
The filler coupling on the outside of a car LPG conversion is not a problem due to better ventilation and open conditions.
Some times it is possible for gas bottle valve to leak in the enclosed space of a back of a Ute or boot of a car.
Automative LPG conversions are fitted to very high standards with regards to mounting of the bottle to the vehicle incase of accident.
All internal automotive gas bottle fittings to vehicle have a sub compartment and all pipes and valving which matters including wiring is vented to the outside of the vehicle.
If the bottle leaks , it will not be to the inside of the vehicle.
Automotive fittings of LPG are to a far higher standard than a loose bottle in a vehicle.
Location of the excessive pressure valve is a problem with loose bottles.
On a automotive fitting it is vented to the sub tank and to the outside of the vehicle.
Loose bottles in the back of a Ute can be pointing any which way and bottles have a certain orientation in which they should be filled.
Filling from the LPG bowser will over fill a forklift, house hold 100 kg bottle ect.
When the bottles filled in the back of the Ute hidden out of sight with the tarp over them, with little ventilation on a hot day with the LPG getting warmer , over filled by the bowser,bottles rolled the wrong way around, so the excess pressure valves leak or pop open and the back of the Ute fills with the correct mixture to ignite..
Most utes have stop light connection on the back corners and the gas follows the low ground( heavier than air)
With the bottles pointing the wrong way fighting a gas fire would be difficult as the excess pressure wouldn't be venting up wards and away from fire fighters.
How many people know or would want to know a forklift bottle even when fitted to a forklift has a top and a bottom for safety and running purposes and is marked so.
100 KB household bottles should be up right, just like the way they carry them on the household delivery truck, filling them horizontally in the back of a Ute has issues.
It goes on and on...........there is a reason for most things.

Oh, I'd never fill a bottle in a boot or ute ... I've filled many bottles, but they have always been out in the open.... I don't like LPG ... and don't mess with it it unless there is no choice.

I still think the most dangerous thing is the restraining of loose bottles being carried... Best place is the boot of a car IMO. They are contained and can't escape in an accident. You will never not instantly smell any sort of leak. I would NEVER store any sort of lpg cylinder in a car or enclosed space though. They live outside where gas can't accumulate if there is a leak ( really a 1 in a million chance really).

I've never seen even a 100% full gas bottle vent. eg: bbq bottle stored in the direct sun. I guess it's possible though.

Must admit though.
NEW 15kg Aluminium LPG Forklift Cylinder Fully Valved CAN BE Filled AT Station | eBay

I'd fill something like this in the back of the range rover without a seconds hesitation. drop the rear tailgate and slide the top of the bottle out so any gas released when you uncouple it is "outside". You'd have to make sure you only filled it to 80% though.

I rekcon owning one of these bottles would be handy. You could fill you bbq bottles from it at 50 cents a litre at home. You see it will be a "liquid out" valve on it. So you don't need to up-end it to fill your bbq bottles.

seeya
ShaneL.

**101 Ron** · 18th September 2016, 09:54 AM

Carrying a 9 kg bottle in the back or boot of your car is more dangerous than a 15/18 kg forklift bottle as the forklift bottle has more safety features.
Be thankful you are still allowed to carry a 9 kg bottle.
If great caution is used in carrying a 9 kg bottle and securing it and especially ensuring the off valve is tight and the gas is not allowed to get hot in the boot , things are OK.
How many people really care, get the 9 kg bottle freshly filled to maximum pressure, throw it loose in the back of the car on its side rolling around unsecured.
Park the car in the drive out in the sun for a few hours and decide they want to get the barbe going and go to the car, get the bottle out which now has time to vent via excess pressure valve and fill the inside or boot of the car with invisible LPG when the boot light or interior light contact switches spark and set the whole thing off.
It happens regularly.
Naturally the victims want compensation or the laws changed.

**101 Ron** · 18th September 2016, 10:00 AM

To fill a forklift bottle or any other house hold bottle at a servo must be done illegally hidden under cover, for if the servos cameras catch you they will turn off the LPG straight away........remember....
10 thousand dollar fine for the servo.
Staff are trained to lookout and to do this.
The EBay ad is misleading as it is only legal to fill a forklift bottle only when mounted onto a forklift.
It is illegal to fill it in a servo station loose.(service station operators will shut down the LPG bowser if caught)

It is illegal to drive a forklift on public roads to a service station in NSW rego or not unless the tynes are removed.

**DoubleChevron** · 18th September 2016, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by 101 Ron

To fill a forklift bottle or any other house hold bottle at a servo must be done illegally hidden under cover, for if the servos cameras catch you they will turn off the LPG straight away........remember....
10 thousand dollar fine for the servo.
Staff are trained to lookout and to do this.
The EBay ad is misleading as it is only illegal to fill a forklift bottle only when mounted onto a forklift.
It is illegal to fill it in a servo station loose.(service station operators will shut down the LPG bowser if caught)

It is illegal to drive a forklift on public roads to a service station in NSW rego or not unless the tynes are removed.

Fun right

I reckon there doing the right thing with the laws. Imagine if everyone started filling lpg bottles in there boot as it wasn't "illegal"....

I've had morons come over next to me smoking when I'm filling 9kg bbq bottles int he past (ie: the bleeder open and filling them to the top). I'm "slightly" blunt with them

**101 Ron** · 18th September 2016, 10:26 AM

I have forklift bottles at work which I used to fill from a 500kg bottle by decantering and using the standard ullage valve to determine when full .
If filled on a cold day and then the next day is very hot, the pressure relief valves sometimes opened with enough force to throw the bottle on there sides.
To fill a forklift bottle it should be done by weight exactly how it is done by the gas companies by either pressure pumping or decantering.
When decantering bottles now at work I use weight scales.
I notice the barbeques Galore store just down the road is now using this system by weight from a set up from a half shipping container and pressure pump.

**DoubleChevron** · 18th September 2016, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by 101 Ron

I have forklift bottles at work which I used to fill from a 500kg bottle by decantering and using the standard ullage valve to determine when full .
If filled on a cold day and then the next day is very hot, the pressure relief valves sometimes opened with enough force to throw the bottle on there sides.
To fill a forklift bottle it should be done by weight exactly how it is done by the gas companies by either pressure pumping or decantering.
When decantering bottles now at work I use weight scales.
I notice the barbeques Galore store just down the road is now using this system by weight from a set up from a half shipping container and pressure pump.

We used to just fill them from a big filler bottle. You fill them until the liquid squirts out the breather hole. Sure was 'not' fun wihen the big bottle started getting low... to fill a 9kg would take forever

seeya,
Shane L.

**d2dave** · 18th September 2016, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

We used to just fill them from a big filler bottle. You fill them until the liquid squirts out the breather hole. Sure was 'not' fun wihen the big bottle started getting low... to fill a 9kg would take forever

seeya,
Shane L.

I still do.

**Toxic_Avenger** · 18th September 2016, 06:18 PM

Decanting into a 9kg, 15kg, 18kg, 45kg or 230kg is nothing uncommon.
Conversation has conveniently diverted away from the reasons why transporting DG such as LPG in the back of an enclosed passenger vehicle is such a bad idea, and towards something that is completely commonplace.

In any case, I trust people who don't get knocked back due to inappropriate transport means (either thru lack of knowledge by the retailer or other devious means) reconsider their choices for their own safety.

It's not the gas company, it the legal requirement.
Keep in mind any police officer, RTA inspector, or workcover (or equivalent) officer, can fine motorists for such breaches. So other than the inconvenience that was a result of a lack of knowledge, I don't see a problem.

**DoubleChevron** · 18th September 2016, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by Toxic_Avenger

Decanting into a 9kg, 15kg, 18kg, 45kg or 230kg is nothing uncommon.
Conversation has conveniently diverted away from the reasons why transporting DG such as LPG in the back of an enclosed passenger vehicle is such a bad idea, and towards something that is completely commonplace.

In any case, I trust people who don't get knocked back due to inappropriate transport means (either thru lack of knowledge by the retailer or other devious means) reconsider their choices for their own safety.

It's not the gas company, it the legal requirement.
Keep in mind any police officer, RTA inspector, or workcover (or equivalent) officer, can fine motorists for such breaches. So other than the inconvenience that was a result of a lack of knowledge, I don't see a problem.

Yes I know ... deadly right ?? These stupid people that don't know these new rules BOC have made. Just think of the lives that will be saved.... I know of at least, um, zero people that have been hurt or killed in my lifetime from transporting an LPG bottle in there car. DEADLY I tell you

(infact so deadly, I have two cars here with bottles mounted in them .... Damn, how am I still alive

),

**Homestar** · 18th September 2016, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Toxic_Avenger

Decanting into a 9kg, 15kg, 18kg, 45kg or 230kg is nothing uncommon.
Conversation has conveniently diverted away from the reasons why transporting DG such as LPG in the back of an enclosed passenger vehicle is such a bad idea, and towards something that is completely commonplace.

In any case, I trust people who don't get knocked back due to inappropriate transport means (either thru lack of knowledge by the retailer or other devious means) reconsider their choices for their own safety.

It's not the gas company, it the legal requirement.
Keep in mind any police officer, RTA inspector, or workcover (or equivalent) officer, can fine motorists for such breaches. So other than the inconvenience that was a result of a lack of knowledge, I don't see a problem.

You can legally carry a 9kg bottle in your car. I believe the rule says you should 'avoid' doing this, not that you can't do it.

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