Thread: Shuddering Clutch; 2010 Puma at 80k?

G'day All,

Thanks for your great replies guys; much appreciated. Yes, I'm a bit hesitant to take it to the local dealer for a number of reasons Pat. One, I've seen enough shoddy worksmanship there, two they may take it all apart and tell me it wasn't the clutch - it was something else - then charge me for taking it all apart plus parts or three they may not find the root cause and still charge me like a wounded bull.

BilboBoggles, I would hate to go thru what you've gone thru - $7k is a lot of dough & the frustration of it all would make one very despondent. (One can buy a 2nd hand rice burner for that.) I know of at least one very ambivalent LandRover owner who has been punished at their back pocket like you (and now owns a LandCruiser <but still loves LandRovers'> who's wife won't let him buy another) and I do not intend to go there. But you're quite correct; it takes a lot of joy out of driving the Landy. I can accept it warts and all for it's little chink if it is as one experienced Landy owner once described to me previously. I must admit, clearly, prior to that particular trip from Cairns to Mossman it was always smooth as a baby's bottom, but I did take it to governor speed along the straights (although I must admit I've done that before.) I recall arriving and it was when parking the vehicle I distinctly noticed the judder. I never ride the clutch - always been mindful "foot COMPLETELY OFF clutch pedal" when not changing gears so I know it's not driving technique.

If I had to make a calculated guess without pulling it all apart and hitting my back pocket I reckon contamination (leaky seal, as I once experienced), could indeed be engine mounts - (haven't looked there yet but intend to), or glazed clutch plate. I have been releasing the clutch a lot quicker in a vain attempt to try to deglaze it lately (if so.)

One final possibility though as you say Lionel - drivetrain mount problem. I didn't mention this but I had the whole rear differential replaced under warranty by the dealer in the 3rd year for noise. The noise was exactly like as though you reverse in most cars - you know, the winding sound which goes up and down in pitch with speed. Perhaps the apprentices they put on the job at the dealer may not have torqued up all nuts and bolts properly? I may go through them all with spanners' & check engine mounts this weekend.

My gut feeling is still the clutch though. The whole front end (engine, transmission & bell housing wobbles) - the symptom exactly of a worn, slipping or glazed up clutch. No noise, rattles or anything else. The take up when fully released is positive. And when releasing the clutch - it takes up early - not late; which leads me to believe the clutch plate still has lots of meat. Even when changing down from 3rd to 2nd one can feel the judder very slightly. Don't know if it's a further tell tail sign but as I said before - from stone cold in the morning or if it's been sitting for an hour - no judder whatsoever - smooth.

If anything, the handbrake is quite loose JDNSW. I've got to pull it up quite a bit to anchor the vehicle properly so I'm almost adamant it's not the handbrake. I'm about to put it in for an 80k service soon so I'll get the privateer mechanic's further opinion. (The irony is that it was this guy who told us of all the Puma's clutch/spring problems only a few months ago prior to this starting; it's his opinion that I've likely got a spring busted inside <that perhaps hasn't disloged?> Hence no rattle?)

Personally I would have thought a clutch should last at least 200 to 300k+ although perhaps you can shorten that with the 6 speed box.

Incidently the LandRover bloke who told me in passing that "some do and some don't judder, don't worry about it" owns several Defender Pumas'. He is a die hard Defender owner who I got the impression does tours with his Landies' for a crust (from W.A and I came across him in Cairns on his way back to the West Coast.
In the meantime I've got myself a Shakin' Landy....
Thanks guys.

Cheers
Chris

If the handbrake has oil in it, it is capable of both dragging and not holding well at the same time! Easy test is to see how hot the handbrake gets after a short run.

John

I feel sorry for you guys with poor local dealers,the one I use has been excellent with two of my vehicles. Pat

Well. One lesson I've learned is to never ever post on a forum saying your defender is fixed... Damned TD5 Clutch has started juddering again. Looks like a oil/fuel leak down the back of the block again...

Originally Posted by fxap05250

G'day All,



My gut feeling is still the clutch though. The whole front end (engine, transmission & bell housing wobbles) - the symptom exactly of a worn, slipping or glazed up clutch. No noise, rattles or anything else. The take up when fully released is positive. And when releasing the clutch - it takes up early - not late; which leads me to believe the clutch plate still has lots of meat. Even when changing down from 3rd to 2nd one can feel the judder very slightly. Don't know if it's a further tell tail sign but as I said before - from stone cold in the morning or if it's been sitting for an hour - no judder whatsoever - smooth.
Cheers
Chris

One test I did that was quite interesting. Pull the bonnet off - Takes 2 people about 10 seconds. Then drive around without the bonnet whilst watching the engine. I would think that if the juddering was in the clutch then you would see that engine wobble around like crazy.. Mine did.

Don't you just love it when "Murphy" starts dominating things around you; sorry to hear you spoke too soon BilboBoggles. I've learnt never to count your chickens before they hatch when it comes to concluding until it's passed the test "long term". I agree it can be very unnerving when you think you're past a certain point and the problem returns though - been there done that. And indeed, driving around with a shakin' Landy can be annoying but I've decided I'm going to put up with it for now.

Bilbo, I'm not that keen to undo those 6 bolts and ask someone on the other end to help lift off ma bonnet but "I know" the engine is mainly the one juddering; you can feel it in the flywheel when you release. All this time until the problem started I could ease the clutch out slowly (even without throttling as with most diesels) and the vehicle would crawl in reverse or 1st very very smoothly. Now I have to give it a little bit of throttle to smooth it out; if I get the balance right - very little judder or almost none. It just makes for lack of precision when gently parking. If it's stone cold - no judder. Reverse is a bit worse than 1st. I reckon I can simply force myself to accept it for now but my only concern is long term or when towing or when we go camping again, driving in sand or mud again (which I'm hoping is soon...)

Pat, I'm in Bush Tucker Man territory here and I know the local Dealer services his vehicles - they've told me so. Unfortunately I am not a celebrity so I don't get the same treatment as Les when it comes to servicing his & his wife's Landies' by the local Dealer. I've noticed a lot of tardiness with jobs done over the years with both my brother's and my Defer but I've only brought something to their attention once & fixed things up myself on other occasions. No point complaining. The turnover of staff as the point of contact in the service dept here has also clocked over a few times...

A month b4 my warranty was about to expire they made it very clear in no uncertain terms it's the last chance to get anything fixed under this policy - put in any complaints before it's too late. Not sure if you're aware - the Defender is the only model LandRover whereby the warranty CANNOT be extended. Apparently it's to do with the fact that there are a lot of people that buy'em & push them to their limits' and there's a lot of outback tour companies up here that do just that; hence the exclusion to extensions' on Defender Warranties. I've digressed.

I intend to get underneath ma shakin' Landy this weekend and check torque tensions on all undercarriage bolts and inspect the engine mounts. Can't say I hold out on anything groundbreaking but watch this space; you never know...

Thanks again guys,
Cheers
Chris

No bolts to undo, just open the bonnet to about 90degrees and it can be lifted off upwards.

Interesting it's not juddering when cold, that kind of contradicts contamination, as that is worse when it's cold.

Bilbo,
Really? Wasn't aware you could go 90° and lift upwards to remove bonnet; trade secrets.
If what you say about contamination is true - then it's got to be a "glazed" clutch plate or drivetrain mount problem as in loose bolt/bolts. If springs were broken I reckon you would hear rattles, grinding, noise of some sort or difficulty in changing gears. I'm getting none of that. All normal, except for the slight judder.
I shall get under vehicle and look for engine mounts problems tomorrow or Sunday.
Cheers
Chris