2.2 puma 130 engine failure

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Originally Posted by martnH

So how to check if the injectors are Siemens or Denso?

All I see is fomoco hehe...

I just wonder, there must be people running these engines commercially and how would they manage there? Do they check and recondition injectors every 100k?

Cheers

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what you are asking is beyond my limited knowledge. i called Bailey to arrange testing of my injectors and asked the Q. I assume there would be a manufacturer ref in the serial. If you have the time and patience comparing the serials from Denso supplied and Siemans supplied might show up a unique ref common to all injectors from each brand.

You would expect large fleet operators of Transit vans to know common problems and service intervals for known problems. Whether they take preventative action is another thing. I can't imagine old mate and his courier company with a fleet of 1 or 2 vans would know or take preventative action.

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Originally Posted by MLD

I had cause to speak with Baileys Diesel today. According to BD the siemans injector from the Ranger 2.2 is not interchangeable with the Denso injector from the Puma 2.2 without reprogramming the ECU to "see" the siemans injector. It is possible that LR built the 2.2 with a siemans injector and owners would have to check to see which is used.

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I wonder if the "injector learn" sequence in the BAS tool does the job?

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Originally Posted by tact

I wonder if the "injector learn" sequence in the BAS tool does the job?

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The bas tool is based on IIDtool bt and that is a poweful diagnostic tool.

If Peter can offer an upgrade for us to purchase, to unlock these function. That would be fantastic.

Apparently it is doable the other way. You can buy a IID BT and then the bas remap.

as with your question, I will say probably yes.

Alternatively it is not too expensive to obtain a *offline* version of the diagnostic tool dealer used....

I am currently looking at these options as I realized I will need something more than a set of spanners.

Cheer
Martin

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Originally Posted by martnH

The bas tool is based on IIDtool bt and that is a poweful diagnostic tool.

If Peter can offer an upgrade for us to purchase, to unlock these function. That would be fantastic.

Apparently it is doable the other way. You can buy a IID BT and then the bas remap.

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If I remember correctly - There is already 2 routines in the BAS tool that reference injectors. One is related to resetting injector calibration, the other is for when an injector is replaced and the new injector code needs to be updated to the vehicle system.

My wondering - is whether these functions would work if one replaced original injectors with some other brand... Maybe a question better addressed to Pete Bell

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Originally Posted by Zeros

Also found this: CRD Fuel Enhancer for Common Rail Engines - Cost Effective Maintenance I’m always wary of an ‘additive fix’ but would be really interested to hear the thoughts of you guys as mechanics/experts. Should we all be adding this to our fuel? As well as installing a second fuel filter?

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I've been running this stuff in the missus D4d Prado since new along with a Racor Aux Fuel Filter (2micron filter). Our Prado now has 180+k on it's going fine, but we did replace the injectors at 160k mark as a precaution as the fuel feedback and fuel volume readings were getting a little bit too out of spec. We replaced the injectors with the NEW improved Denso Injectors and the engine definitely runs quieter. I've read and heard about a few issues (from mates) about the Baileys Injectors and went with the Denso ones which were about $450/each. I've since read that some of the issues with the D4d may not be just injector related but also the piston design as well.... Just another thing to worry about :( Anyhow, we have decided to keep the missus Prado for the next 3>5yrs or so (unless something major happens to it). Our Prado doesn't have a Chip or been remapped like some of the other guys that have had engine issues, so I don't know it that is also related.
If u look at the BIG picture and the number of vehicles out there that are running the d4d engines, the failures are only a small percentage but to those that it has happened to it's a BIG thing that should not have happened in the 1st place... Like most manufacturers, I think Toyota quality control has been slipping for a number of years now, but from my limited experience, they are still ahead of most other manufacturers.... Would I buy a NEW Toyota 4WD.... probably not but I probably wouldn't any new 4WD these days either....

Getting back to the CEM product... Does it work? Well I've only ever heard GOOD things about it and from our experience it's been good.... but it is expensive stuff and I do get it for a good price through a mate of mine so I'll continue to use it until that option is no longer there....

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Originally Posted by Robmacca

I've been running this stuff in the missus D4d Prado since new along with a Racor Aux Fuel Filter (2micron filter). Our Prado now has 180+k on it's going fine, but we did replace the injectors at 160k mark as a precaution as the fuel feedback and fuel volume readings were getting a little bit too out of spec. We replaced the injectors with the NEW improved Denso Injectors and the engine definitely runs quieter. I've read and heard about a few issues (from mates) about the Baileys Injectors and went with the Denso ones which were about $450/each. I've since read that some of the issues with the D4d may not be just injector related but also the piston design as well.... Just another thing to worry about :( Anyhow, we have decided to keep the missus Prado for the next 3>5yrs or so (unless something major happens to it). Our Prado doesn't have a Chip or been remapped like some of the other guys that have had engine issues, so I don't know it that is also related.
If u look at the BIG picture and the number of vehicles out there that are running the d4d engines, the failures are only a small percentage but to those that it has happened to it's a BIG thing that should not have happened in the 1st place... Like most manufacturers, I think Toyota quality control has been slipping for a number of years now, but from my limited experience, they are still ahead of most other manufacturers.... Would I buy a NEW Toyota 4WD.... probably not but I probably wouldn't any new 4WD these days either....

Getting back to the CEM product... Does it work? Well I've only ever heard GOOD things about it and from our experience it's been good.... but it is expensive stuff and I do get it for a good price through a mate of mine so I'll continue to use it until that option is no longer there....

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Re your D4D - keep an eye on your injector feedback values and greatly reduce the risk of doing a piston (D4Ds were once my bread and butter). The feeback values can give you an indication of firstly injector wear but also if you injector seats have failed (observed too on puma engines). Chips are a good way of doing pistons too - so you are lucky there.

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Originally Posted by Arch

Re your D4D - keep an eye on your injector feedback values and greatly reduce the risk of doing a piston (D4Ds were once my bread and butter). The feeback values can give you an indication of firstly injector wear but also if you injector seats have failed (observed too on puma engines). Chips are a good way of doing pistons too - so you are lucky there.

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Yeah, for that reason I never chipped ours and I've got a techstream program that monitors the fuel feedback and volume values but I must admit I haven't checked them since the new injectors when it....

I have commented on this with others that have had a engine failure just out of warranty....

*Any major failure (say oh i dunno, an engine) that occurs just out of warranty is not considered to be fair and reasonable according to the ACCC or any reasonably sane person.
*The manufacturer is obligated to treat such failures as if its still under new car warranty.

my advise for what its worth...
*Obviously approach the dealer in a polite respectful manner (which I guess is the case so far as you mention they are trying to get it under warranty for you)
*Keep in mind that might be a dealer bull**** ploy "yeah gee sorry we tried to get it as a warranty but bad evil Jaguar Land Rover said no" type thing.
*If that fails, approach the manufacturer directly.
*If that fails, contact a lawyer (or solicitor (I dunno the difference) and pay that initial fee for another scumbag shark THAT IS BEING PAID TO BE ON YOUR SIDE.
*Make a youtube video "I made a mistake i bought a Land Rover" [tonguewink][tonguewink][tonguewink]
Actually even better, get on to Youtube and see Lemon Squash Creative
- YouTube

Consumer warranty is not just for house hold appliances.

also to the OP...

*Talk with a Ford mechanic, oil pump failures arent an unknown thing, but if you consider the amount of Ford Transits on the road the failure rate is pretty low (and if you compare it to failure rates of other Ford models then its not even an issue)