EV general discussion

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Originally Posted by scarry

Volkswagen scales back EV production | Autocar

No surprise

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Interesting read. thanks.

"with up to 361 miles (EPA estimate) on a full charge provided by the single-motor SE trim, although Car and Driver notes that it observed only 260 miles on its 75-mile-per-hour highway test. But even if the projected range wasn’t as long as the official figure, the Ioniq 6 managed to hit an efficiency figure of 140 MPGe combined, topping the rear-wheel-drive Tesla Model 3’s 132 MPGe." from Hyundai Ioniq 6 Is Car and Driver’s 2023 EV of the Year

Other bit is a former POTUS stock pick went belly up! "Trump-backed startup at war with iPhone maker over failed electric ute | CarExpert"

On VW and Germany in particular the Power prices/cost and other issues having a huge impact on Germany industry and consumers. I assume I know one of the main reasons [bigwhistle][bigwhistle]

Tesla USA VW charging deal is also interesting. The US anti trust (competition watchdogs) have not raised a issue yet[bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle]Ford, GM now VW may not go down at all well in EU or even here perhaps?


The EV change in Thailand is interesting. With huge amounts of scooters which have tiny fuel tanks needing to be fueled almost daily due to the huge hills on many of the roads here it is funny that there is not a lot more. Some BYD and MG evs with a truck load of more models of MGs here including a UTE (Not EVs.

A friend of mine just traded his old Honda Civic Hybrid for a BYD Atto 3 - I had never heard of this brand before but is a chinese brand that has been selling in Aust for a year or two - like a lot of the chinese stuff it is at the cheaper end of the range.

BYDAutomotive.com.au | BYD ATTO 3 - New Energy Vehicles

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Originally Posted by 101RRS

A friend of mine just traded his old Honda Civic Hybrid for a BYD Atto 3 - I had never heard of this brand before but is a chinese brand that has been selling in Aust for a year or two - like a lot of the chinese stuff it is at the cheaper end of the range.

BYDAutomotive.com.au | BYD ATTO 3 - New Energy Vehicles

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I'm aware that 'Form follows Function', but it looks no different to 99% of the other manufacturers' products.

i.e. boringly bland ad nauseum. :thumbsdown:

It looks very much like a Haval - another bucket of ****. The windows especially - very high and I’d like the Haval too high to lean your arm on and the armrest in the doorcard is too low.

EV charging - Making it easy. Making it safe. | ABCB

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Originally Posted by Homestar

I doubt the number would be close to 50% could go ev on fleet vehicles. If I look at the last company I worked for a a decent sample size - around 400 company vehicle around the country - only a handful could be EV’s and they did a lot of research just before I left to see what they could do in this space.

Killers were - Nowhere to charge at work - the car parks at the branches were mostly on street or a long way from a power source. Most drivers parked their company cars on the street at night, and initial cost - they but pauper pack mid size SUV’s for 30 odd K each.

That’s a large National business. Where I am now is a family business - 8 company cars and 6 trucks. Again, nowhere to charge them at work and the cost would be eye watering to do this. Again, most are parked on street at night and third - again, way too expensive for the business to consider buying.

So that’s a large and small company where it wouldn’t work - where’s the 50% coming from?

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You're not really thinking of the big picture I'm afraid. It's hard not to look at what you live I know. I could do the same. On my floor at work there is probably 100 or so occupants, and not one of them have to drive or have a work vehicle. There's 26 floors in my building.

Over half of Australias population drive themselves to work. In Brisbane it's actually nearly 80% after the pandemic!

Australia’s journey to work | Australian Bureau of Statistics

The vast vast majority of vehicles in Australia are privately owned. More households have 2 or three cars than one car.

Number of cars per household | Australia | Community profile

I'm sure I said the 50% figure was made up, but I reckon it's reasonable! Personally - if I were running the joint I'd be doing some proper research in this. I think it would be very beneficial in setting future transport policy but there you go.

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

I don't agree.
My wife plays golf and part of the duty of the second car is to visit golf courses that may be up to 200Km away, leaving early morning and returning at night or overnighting for a couple of nights.
The overnight stays usually involve a function with only a short break to change dress. In her case it is unrealistic to suggest that she should go looking for a charger somewhere to enable her to get home.
Again my son lives at Kellyville and we live at Kincumber about 100Km away . so we would have to make very sure that we charged overnight to be certain we could get there and back on a hot day, and forget it if the inevitable semi rollover happens on the M1.
I believe that many families would have similar patterns .
Or of course we could have a hybrid or ICE car and take 5 minutes to refuel.
I looked at cheap EVs such as the Nissan Leaf second hand but their range of about 80-100Km is just a joke. How much range will an MG have left after say 5-8 years? .
An ICE car keeps much the same range for it's life.
Regards PhilipA

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There are any number of EV's that could do that without the need to charge. Think of all that petrol money you'd be saving!

If The Tesla experience plays out, the oldest ev's typically have over 85% after 10 years. In theory the LFP packs being fitted now should do better.

A Study on Real-Life Tesla Battery Deterioration | NimbleFins

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

There are any number of EV's that could do that without the need to charge. Think of all that petrol money you'd be saving!

If The Tesla experience plays out, the oldest ev's typically have over 85% after 10 years. In theory the LFP packs being fitted now should do better.

A Study on Real-Life Tesla Battery Deterioration | NimbleFins

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Saving petrol money? Again it’s just funds shifting.
An equivalent Petrol vehicle of same trim level as say a Tesla is about 1/2 the price.

That’s a lot of petrol…and no inconvenience or limitations (short of a fuel strike).

TL;DR

On the other topics (to save another reply):
Public transport will never replace single drivers - convenience and timing just won’t allow it here.
Even where I live, a trip home after work will likely not be directly home. Nor will my work exit be “on time” it never is.
Most of my colleagues are the same.

And quite a way back in the thread you quoted “cleaner air in cities” - again that’s great, it’s NIMBY though. Less exhaust emissions in the city vs significant emissions at mine sites, processing facilities, power producers - even “renewables” which consume sickening amounts of CO2 in their structures and production processes.

By the time all of that is dealt with over the planned life of EV vehicles, it really isn’t beneficial. Lots of innocent workers will be dead or seriously ill, so that a western city can have clean(er) air. Lots of seriously big mining assets will have dug multitudes of dirt for the precious Lithium bearing ore, burning millions of tonnes of fuel to do so.

Copper miners will have multiplied production and emissions to make the necessary copper for engines, power transmission etc.

Iron producers (yes I make my living at one) will ramp production to make more cars and engines, meaning more emissions above and beyond…

It doesn’t end, we all use the same planet, same atmosphere. All that’s happening is little pockets of western air are slightly less dirty than 2nd / 3rd world areas.

There is no money to be saved by owner #1 of an EV.
It’s entirely swallowed by the up front cost vs an equivalent liquid fuelled vehicle.

My 195,000km travelled D4 has required $34,000 in fuel and cost ~$80k = $114,000 out of my pocket. And it’s 12 years old. The first 130,000km was done in the first 5 years.

When looking at a Tesla, it was $165,000 and would be turned over by 5 years.

That would then require the mining etc to produce another one for me to buy. Another $165,000 outlay (less trade in).

In the meantime, even with lots of solar, my power bill would increase significantly, my inconvenience would be exponentially increased, and a tiny part of my area would have slightly cleaner air.


So how is this a benefit?

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Originally Posted by NavyDiver

The EV change in Thailand is interesting. With huge amounts of scooters which have tiny fuel tanks needing to be fueled almost daily due to the huge hills on many of the roads here it is funny that there is not a lot more. Some BYD and MG evs with a truck load of more models of MGs here including a UTE (Not EVs.

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Problem is Thailands power supply regularly Browns out already. Their primary generation is massive Coal Power stations and they cannot maintain supply. Our house regularly loses power or voltage drops (Brown out) for hours on end - and we aren’t far from one of the big generators.

Hills kill EV scooters very quickly. Thai people are moving fast all the time to make their meagre livings- look at their trucks, all on LPG using quick change bottles to make refilling faster.

You’ll see a few EVs, mostly ex-Pats who can afford them, and who have Euro/Aus/USA bank balances to pay for the dirt cheap power costs - they’re the only winners. (Our power bill for the Hua Hin house is about $15 AU per month. )

Yeah was about to chip in before I read Tombie’s post. Lowest spec Model Y is $69,000 and let’s say compare that to a base spec RAV4 - something that can handle a set of golf clubs and 4 people no dramas. They are $39,000 so a $30K difference. How much petrol will that buy? I’m glad you asked.

Currently $1.70 a litre around here but let’s say $1.90 a litre for ****s and giggles. That’s 15,789 litres of bang juice. RAV4 will average around 8 litres per 100KM, so around 200KKM or 13 years at the Australia average KM.

Average age of a car in Aus is 10 years.

RAV4 is still a pretty good goer at 10 years, and the Model Y - well we need to stay tuned for that don’t we.


You can see this doesn’t add up right saying you’re saving fuel by having an EV…?