EV general discussion

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

Speak for yourself. I probably only have another ten years of driving - can you seriously see any possibility of a heavy four wheel drive EV that can be afforded by a pensioner in that time frame? Unfortunately, I can't. My 110 has not quite done 700,000, and is currently worth about what I paid for it over thirty years ago, and it will probably still be going in that time frame. But I would really like to replace it with a practical EV that can actually reach my home, and can tow my trailer occasionally, (no deliveries here) and carry all my grandkids on occasion.

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You may be right. Reading today how Mazda shift to Luxury car types has moved the more affordable crown to BYD which is mostly EV. Here in Thailand I am seeing a lot of 4wd utes including a MG which was a surprise to me.

We know China has borrowed a LOT of the technology from joint ventures with most car manufacturers and the safety, fit and finish is mostly at or even above some of the manufacturers who taught the chinese how to do it.

The MG or at least the BYD EV 4wd ute with rumored range of over 1000km ( a lot less with towing of course)

I fully agree keeping your 110 running to a magic million is more than possible. I would have loved to have battery tech/fuel cell at an affordable cost to move my Disco away from the regular maintenace/fuel costs I do not wish to ever pay for again.

Link to the MG I am seeing here. NOT EV

The BYD ute is likely to be 2024 apparently. Link to one in NZ with the rumored 1000km!

The last car I brought for my mum and dad will be their last drive as well. Oddly we were closely looking at a hybrid camry at the auction where I brought them a ex police car.
Thier next door neighbor has a hybrid camry which would have been the same age as ex government ones I saw that day. The stated if cost a lot less to run to Melbourne and maintain than the prior car they had.

At the time I assumed incorrectly that the hybrid camry would not be very helpful in long country runs that thier next door neighbor swears it does..

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

So, "it will be required to be turned over" after 5 years? What's happening to the car then? Just shot into space? [bigsmile]...........

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From what some people seem to be saying on here, EV's will soon depreciate so rapidly they will be almost giving them away, so you'd be absolutely mad not to buy one and then hire an ICE vehicle for towing, holidays, extended family outings, etc. [biggrin]

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Originally Posted by NavyDiver

At the time I assumed incorrectly that the hybrid camry would not be very helpful in long country runs that thier next door neighbor swears it does..

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I think you assumed correctly. Partner has a 12 month old Hybrid RAV4 as a company car, she does a good mix of City and Country driving - including towing a small frame trailer with a light blow moulded base on it (work stuff). She keeps weekly and trip data on fuel usage. The hybrids shine around town going as low as 5.2LPH but averaging 5.7 and Highway driving averaging 8.2 and towing (280kg all up) 8.8. Given they are quite a decent sized vehicle and there’s always a bunch of work stuff in it it’s pretty good and Yotas hybrid system is very smooth and well integrated but I see nothing in their design and operation that makes them any cheaper to run on the highway. Tiny battery and electric motor as designed for start stop motoring.

Maybe they had something a bit thirstier last time so they think 8’s are good but the engine runs all the time above 40KPH so there’s no saving when on the Highway.

A bit of the placebo effect maybe. But if they are happy and think that’s the case that’s fine as well.

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Originally Posted by RANDLOVER

From what some people seem to be saying on here, EV's will soon depreciate so rapidly they will be almost giving them away, so you'd be absolutely mad not to buy one and then hire an ICE vehicle for towing, holidays, extended family outings, etc. [biggrin]

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Problem with that is that the simple fact that in the Australian context, demand for holidays, towing etc is concentrated on public holidays and school holidays. For these rentals to be available when needed, they would need to be idle most of the time. So if you depend on renting your tow vehicle, 4wd etc, you can expect it to be either "book a year ahead", or "pay through the nose". Or both.

Tow vehicles are generally unavailable for short term rental as they all go to long term projects and outside these vehicles, rental companies don't fit tow bars or allow towing with any of their other vehicles. We used to try and book 3 each year at the same time for a project - 1 months hire - and pretty much every rental company in the end told us we were dreaming and they could do it if we'd pay a 3 month minimum. We outsourced that part of the work a few years back because of this so good luck renting a dual cab for the holidays.

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Originally Posted by Homestar

Tow vehicles are generally unavailable for short term rental as they all go to long term projects and outside these vehicles, rental companies don't fit tow bars or allow towing with any of their other vehicles. We used to try and book 3 each year at the same time for a project - 1 months hire - and pretty much every rental company in the end told us we were dreaming and they could do it if we'd pay a 3 month minimum. We outsourced that part of the work a few years back because of this so good luck renting a dual cab for the holidays.

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And try to rent something to go on a dirt road,or off road,very difficult to find as well.

And dont think of just taking it there,as most hire vehicles have trackers on them.

Just keep your current Land Rovers people (or what ever other 4WD floats your boat).

Petrol and diesel will be around for another 20-30 years.

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Originally Posted by DiscoDB

Just keep your current Land Rovers people (or what ever other 4WD floats your boat).

Petrol and diesel will be around for another 20-30 years.

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I think diesel will be around a lot longer than that to be honest. I can’t see agriculture being able to transition away from diesel without 3/4 of the world starving to death.

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Originally Posted by Homestar

I think you assumed correctly. .... .....
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but I see nothing in their design and operation that makes them any cheaper to run on the highway. Tiny battery and electric motor as designed for start stop motoring.

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While it is true that hybrids are best in stop/start driving, I don't accept that they offer no benefit on the highway.

My own experience with a 2016 Camry indicates that there is sill some advantage on the highway and several articles I have read explain why that should be the case. There is something in their design.

The Atkinson Cycle engine is more fuel efficient than an Otto Cycle. The loss of torque at low revs is more than compensated for by the electric motors.

So even though highway travel doesn't offer much opportunity for energy recovery through regenerative braking, the Atkinson Cycle is more fuel efficient.

I can only compare my current fuel consumption with what I used to get in my previous SV21 Camry. 400km trips from the South Coast to the Central Coast involving mostly highway travel in the SV21 used about 8.25 litres/100 km. The Hybrid Camry is about 5.4 or if I have a canoe on top about 5.6.

I would expect that a RAV would suffer a greater reduction in the benefit on the highway because it is less aerodynamic than a Camry, so suffers more at higher speeds.

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Originally Posted by Homestar

Yotas hybrid system is very smooth and well integrated but I see nothing in their design and operation that makes them any cheaper to run on the highway.

but the engine runs all the time above 40KPH so there’s no saving when on the Highway.

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They are far more fuel efficient when running on the engine on the highway as the engine is a Atkinson cycle engine which far more efficient than the usual Otto cycle engine - the downside is they have a lot less torque hence the small electric engine and small battery to cover this lack of torque when taking off. Now I guess they could have just made a gearbox with more gears and very low 1st and 2nd to cover the lack of torque but they decided electric supplement. If the Hybrids could just run on battery only they would have a range of less than 10km.

Sorry VNX - did not see your post - well said.