EV general discussion

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Originally Posted by DiscoDB

Definitely agree with this. And with Victoria phasing out gas and forcing new housing to use reverse cycle air conditioning to keep the house warm in winter, electric cooktops, and electric water heaters, this must put more load on the grid per household than an EV will add.

We did take up the VIC government’s energy efficiency upgrade program to replace the 50 halogen lights throughout the house with LED. This reduced our daily energy usage by around 5kwhr, enough power to run a typical EV around 12,000km a year.

It is possible to transition to EV’s without putting more load on the grid when coupled with other energy savings at home, and if charged daily most charging could be done off peak.

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It's not the average daily loads for EV owners that will present a hurdle - there is capacity for home charging in the evenings already if you look at the likely uptake of EV's in regional and rural Victoria - (Bugger all) - off peak electric hot water loads have been reducing steadily over the years - and is about half what it used to be so there's no reason off peak charging even in regional locations can't be a thing. The biggest issue will be sticking in superchargers everywhere to allow EV's to more rapidly travel to these places and back. Even in Victoria which is a tiny state compared to most others would mean at least one charge to get to and from a lot of places and having a spare 300 plus KW in some of these towns (let alone multiples) isn't something the grid was ever designed for.

If we assume a user pays model then we're back to looking at taxing EV's to pay for this - which is something I don't agree with and I don't even drive one.

Not saying I have the answers, I'm just in a position where I see the issues in more detail than most.

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Originally Posted by NavyDiver

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Suspect you're the 99% [thumbsupbig]

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You give me too much credit - I'm the kid in the back picking his nose adding nothing but listening and taking in everything.

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Originally Posted by DiscoDB

Definitely agree with this. And with Victoria phasing out gas and forcing new housing to use reverse cycle air conditioning to keep the house warm in winter, electric cooktops, and electric water heaters, this must put more load on the grid per household than an EV will add.

We did take up the VIC government’s energy efficiency upgrade program to replace the 50 halogen lights throughout the house with LED. This reduced our daily energy usage by around 5kwhr, enough power to run a typical EV around 12,000km a year.

It is possible to transition to EV’s without putting more load on the grid when coupled with other energy savings at home, and if charged daily most charging could be done off peak.

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Many did, and I too went LED in much of my property.

Sadly, medical research suggests the low CRI and tendency towards a bluer light are now having health impacts on people (and animals where it’s used for street lighting).

Seems humans are destined to **** themselves up in a never ending cycle [emoji41]

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Originally Posted by Homestar

It's not the average daily loads for EV owners that will present a hurdle - there is capacity for home charging in the evenings already if you look at the likely uptake of EV's in regional and rural Victoria - (Bugger all) - off peak electric hot water loads have been reducing steadily over the years - and is about half what it used to be so there's no reason off peak charging even in regional locations can't be a thing. The biggest issue will be sticking in superchargers everywhere to allow EV's to more rapidly travel to these places and back. Even in Victoria which is a tiny state compared to most others would mean at least one charge to get to and from a lot of places and having a spare 300 plus KW in some of these towns (let alone multiples) isn't something the grid was ever designed for.

If we assume a user pays model then we're back to looking at taxing EV's to pay for this - which is something I don't agree with and I don't even drive one.

Not saying I have the answers, I'm just in a position where I see the issues in more detail than most.

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I think the solution is we need 80-90% of EV charging to be done at home and off peak. For most metropolitan car usage this is very doable.

Rapid public charging should be limited to those that need it and priced accordingly. I am sure the state or federal government could add a rapid charging premium rate on all public chargers to collect money for grid upgrades (like collecting fuel excise “allegedly” for road upgrades). Home charging up to 7kW should be exempt from this.

Regional transport needs to stay on fossil fuel, and I expect will be for at least another 20-30+ years. It is the metropolitan use of cars where the biggest positive impact can be made.

And V2G/V2H can make a big difference. In my neighbourhood, over 50% of the cars are parked up at home every day and probably get used less than 30-60mins per day just for short local trips. If the second car was an EV this is a huge potential battery bank that could be used to store solar generated power during the day (including power from the grid) and to then tap into for peak power in the evening.

Why have a fixed house storage battery of 5-15kWh connected to solar when you can have a mobile battery of 30-60kWh which can also power your home for days. No more power blackouts at home.

The opportunities that the electric future will create is exciting and we can get 80-90% of the benefits without getting rid of fossil fuel. We can continue to see total energy usage across Australia continue to come down from its peaks whilst renewable energy generation grows (which is what the ultimate aim is all about - getting us off fossil fuels to give the future generations a fighting chance of survival) and we can do all of this whilst still enjoying the weekend.

And the first step is to not ban ICE’s but to encourage a move to hybrids with at least a 15kWh battery that has V2G/V2H capability. You can have your new ICE (as a PHEV) but the battery needs to be on a smart charger that can export power if needed.

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Originally Posted by Tombie

Many did, and I too went LED in much of my property.

Sadly, medical research suggests the low CRI and tendency towards a bluer light are now having health impacts on people (and animals where it’s used for street lighting).

Seems humans are destined to **** themselves up in a never ending cycle [emoji41]

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Some halogen lights are probably not much better, but we kept the dimmable halogen lights in the TV room. They are in the warm light range and seems to help make the transition to sleep better.

Amazing how we live longer but have more health impacts.

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Originally Posted by Tombie

Seems humans are destined to **** themselves up in a never ending cycle [emoji41]

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I thought we were the smartest on the planet?[bawl]

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Originally Posted by scarry

I thought we were the smartest on the planet?[bawl]

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I thought that was the dolphins.

So long and thanks for all the fish - Hitchhiker's Guide (HD) - YouTube

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Originally Posted by Homestar

Um - you posted earlier that the government should force the Networks to upgrade their assets so EV's can be charged quickly anywhere. It's the non EV drivers that will pay for this - Tins has a valid point IMO.

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I think that was one of the options. I said I thought it wouldn't be necessary and it would work out. You know that power companies don't give power to EV owners right? They get to sell more power

Another example.. Telstra used to be owned by the Government. It did what we wanted it to do. We just told it. And then we sold it.. and we couldn't get it to build a broadband network because they are a private company and why would they?

So we had to build Telstra2 as I call it.. or the NBN. It will likely be the same with power networks. In QLD however the state owns the network still so they can be asked to do what is required. I'm not sure of the ownership status in other states.

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Originally Posted by Homestar

So which part of my post do you think I'm lying about? As to what we do - I'm all ears as no one is even trying to handle this once the numbers are bantered about. Why do you think it's either an all or nothing proposition? This is part of what makes me scratch my heads about the whole EV thing - most EV owners seem to think it's either an EV or nothing and those that don't want one or can't make them work are the spawn of Satan for some reason. We don't need to call EV's off - they'll find an equilibrium in the system between who wants them and where they can operate effectively due to infrastructure limitations - which will of course change from year to year, but don't expect there to be many choices for supercharging outside the main transport corridors. There will be odds and sods here any there but in so many places there just isn't the power available to install them.

The math shows the whole saga has decades yet to play out even if your the most committed EV believer, so who knows what the final mix will be between ICE, EV's, Hydrogen and whatever else throws it's hat into the ring in the meantime.

As to forcing the companies into these things - who's paying? All well and good you have the money to buy an EV and pay your electricity bill and not think about or have any financial issues, but what about the millions who can't? Just say '**** them - it's for their own good' and let power prices go up an order of magnitude because you and your rich mates want to drive anywhere in the country and have a supercharger available? - I've got news for you...

I know you don't believe me but when you've sat in a room full of Network Engineers trying to thrash this out and put numbers around it - let me know, because I have.

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See .. I literally don't know why everyone in here is panicking. We've got just over 100k EV's on the road. And 3 million pools in Australia as I mentioned earlier.. which we seem to be able to power no problems.

It's going to be years until there are as many EV's as pools. We sell 1 million cars in Aus each year. Even if we went to 50% EV tomorrow it's not going to happen for 6 years. And clearly 50% ev's is some time off. If I was going to take a punt I'd be suggesting 10.

Which is why I believe that the power networks for these cars will work itself out. IMHO there will be charging controls to either stop or discourage people from charging during peak, and we will likely incentivise people to charge at favourable times. Strangely.. just like we do now with pools. It's going to be ok.

After owning a EV for 6 months now.. it's really no big deal. It's just a car with a battery. As to affordability.. I'm unconcerned about that.. it's already working out. We just need more choice. I have no delusions. Petrol/diesel is going to be around for a long time.

I can't see any way that governments are going to take ICE cars off owners. They may try and discourage them though, long term.

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Originally Posted by Homestar

You give me too much credit - I'm the kid in the back picking his nose adding nothing but listening and taking in everything.

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Are you also one of those bloody kids that once the nose is picked they then wipe snot balls down the wall or on your short Melange pants?[bighmmm][bigrolf]