EV general discussion

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

In view of the worry about EV battery fires, it is interesting to look at the concern about petrol fires in the time motor vehicles were first appearing. I recall my father being horrified at the risk when houses with an attached garage first started to appear. And concerns about the risk of having the garage too close to the house appear in some of the early motoring books that I have.

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And yet nearly everyone kept containers of petrol in their garage or garden shed, and many still do. Doing so may contribute to a house fire, but undisturbed petrol containers don't often start fires. Perhaps undisturbed Li-Ion batteries don't either, but most of them are disturbed, as charging them disturbs them by definition. Gav ( Homestar ) recommends charging them away from structures on non flammable benches etc. Sound advice which I now follow. One house fire was enough for me. And that's just tool batteries. No way would I charge an EV on my property. let alone near the house. I have no issue with my ICE cars parked next to my front door.

When motor vehicles first appeared there were no standards or regulations for their manufacture. Anyone could, and often did, build one. Repairs were haphazard, modifications were common, and yet most deaths were from collision trauma and not from blowing the things up. Today, regulation has seen ICE vehicle fires following collision become almost unheard of.

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Originally Posted by Tins

Surprising they don't all make sure they have their little "virtue signal" prominently displayed. Along with the "Baby on Board" placard.

I guess they'll come up with a Diesel placard of shame soon. ☠️ perhaps. Only with the colours reversed.

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Sometimes I think the baby is driving.

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Originally Posted by RANDLOVER

Sometimes I think the baby is driving.

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:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:Yep..

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Originally Posted by Tins

And yet nearly everyone kept containers of petrol in their garage or garden shed, and many still do. Doing so may contribute to a house fire, but undisturbed petrol containers don't often start fires. Perhaps undisturbed Li-Ion batteries don't either, but most of them are disturbed, as charging them disturbs them by definition. Gav ( Homestar ) recommends charging them away from structures on non flammable benches etc. Sound advice which I now follow. One house fire was enough for me. And that's just tool batteries. No way would I charge an EV on my property. let alone near the house. I have no issue with my ICE cars parked next to my front door.

When motor vehicles first appeared there were no standards or regulations for their manufacture. Anyone could, and often did, build one. Repairs were haphazard, modifications were common, and yet most deaths were from collision trauma and not from blowing the things up. Today, regulation has seen ICE vehicle fires following collision become almost unheard of.

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I keep diesel in the shed in a tank that holds about 1100 litres for the Land Rover. The lawn mower is petrol and I keep a few litres in a jerry can for that. I always fill the lawn mower out in the open.

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

In view of the worry about EV battery fires, it is interesting to look at the concern about petrol fires in the time motor vehicles were first appearing. I recall my father being horrified at the risk when houses with an attached garage first started to appear. And concerns about the risk of having the garage too close to the house appear in some of the early motoring books that I have.

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People have become completely desensitised to ICE vehicles going up in flames. It's like "MEh" oh well.

I'm riding my push bike along the local bike path yesterday "I can smell plastic burning". Turns out someone was fuelling a vehicle at home and it's gone up and torched four houses. And what does it get? A one liner at the top of the article.

There are no cries from MSM to ban the holding of fuel in homes, or filling vehicles. Or anything. The news is all about the houses burning and not about the cause. If this was an EV let alone a Tesla, you'd be able to read about this on news sites across the planet. But an ICE car torches a few buildings. "Meh". No cries for a national regulator? Nope

I say again.. I do not worry about charging the Tesla. (It's charging downstairs as we speak, suns out) But I won't even connect the battery to the Lotus without a fire extinguisher within a couple of metres.

A blaze that engulfed four homes in Brisbane's north was likely caused by a fuel spill by a resident trying to fill up a vehicle, according to the Queensland Fire Department (QFD).

A blaze that engulfed four homes in Brisbane's north was likely caused by a fuel spill by a resident trying to fill up a vehicle, according to the Queensland Fire Department (QFD).

Three homes lost, three people in hospital after fire engulfs Grange street in north Brisbane - ABC News

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

People have become completely desensitised to ICE vehicles going up in flames. It's like "MEh" oh well.

I'm riding my push bike along the local bike path yesterday "I can smell plastic burning". Turns out someone was fuelling a vehicle at home and it's gone up and torched four houses. And what does it get? A one liner at the top of the article.

There are no cries from MSM to ban the holding of fuel in homes, or filling vehicles. Or anything. The news is all about the houses burning and not about the cause. If this was an EV let alone a Tesla, you'd be able to read about this on news sites across the planet. But an ICE car torches a few buildings. "Meh". No cries for a national regulator? Nope

I say again.. I do not worry about charging the Tesla. (It's charging downstairs as we speak, suns out) But I won't even connect the battery to the Lotus without a fire extinguisher within a couple of metres.

A blaze that engulfed four homes in Brisbane's north was likely caused by a fuel spill by a resident trying to fill up a vehicle, according to the Queensland Fire Department (QFD).

A blaze that engulfed four homes in Brisbane's north was likely caused by a fuel spill by a resident trying to fill up a vehicle, according to the Queensland Fire Department (QFD).

Three homes lost, three people in hospital after fire engulfs Grange street in north Brisbane - ABC News

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Now Captain, I have generally seen educated and somewhat wise input from you, on this topic.
However, this is a wee bit of a soggy example, as the cause appears to be wholly and solely 'Human Error'.

I can recall many years ago (maybe 40) being witness to a conflagration at a fuel depot in Wangaratta .
A bloke was filling a probably 1000 l Tank on the back of a tray truck with petrol with a ciggy hanging out of his mouth and leaning over the large opening of the tank.
Well I know petrol is not supposed to be lit by a cigarette but boom and away it went. The hose on the pump melted , burning fuel everywhere and a probably 10,000l LPG tank nearby. It was about 15 Metres long so maybe much more.
The LPG tank was venting with the heat but didn't catch fire as the vents were far enough away from the fire .
Well the fire brigade had it out in about an hour and nobody killed although I think the idiot had burns.

Lets wonder how long it would take to put out a massive battery fire. I think there is a video above talking about one burning for at least a week. In the video, no fireman was game to enter the building AFAIR. The one in Victoria took about a week to go out AFAIR.

You cannot help stupid. So lets suppose that someone does something similar eg pouring water on the charge cable as recommended by some idiot on Facebook. the water shorts the battery and boom.
It's the idiots of the World that cause the Darwin Awards to be a thing.
Regards PhilipA

I think you're misremembering, Philip. Petrol will ignite at 5% atmospheric mix, which is about the level detectable by humans' noses. A naked flame or spark can certainly and most likely will ignite petrol in the scenario described by you. It would have been explosive, lasting only seconds. A secondary fire of surrounding combustible materials can occur, but the petrol fire would have been exhausted quickly, before the fire brigade arrived. It is unlikely the fellow filling the container would have survived.
The more likely scenario is that the 1,000 litre container was being filled with diesel. Diesel is combustible, not flammable. Although not impossible but highly unlikely, a cigarette will ignite diesel under these circumstances.
The most likely source of ignition being static electricity. Diesel is highly prone to generating static electricity, while being transferred, which is why it is mandatory to connect an earth strap to the container being filled.
Your fellow's casual attitude, clearly displayed by his smoking whilst undertaking the task, no doubt saw him fail to earth the vessel.
The combustible diesel burns far slower than petrol and quite conceivably would have been still burning when the fire brigade arrived. Taking into consideration, the time and location of the incident, it would have taken time to extinguish the fire.

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Originally Posted by V8Ian

I think you're misremembering, Philip. Petrol will ignite at 5% atmospheric mix, which is about the level detectable by humans' noses. A naked flame or spark can certainly and most likely will ignite petrol in the scenario described by you. It would have been explosive, lasting only seconds. A secondary fire of surrounding combustible materials can occur, but the petrol fire would have been exhausted quickly, before the fire brigade arrived. It is unlikely the fellow filling the container would have survived.
The more likely scenario is that the 1,000 litre container was being filled with diesel. Diesel is combustible, not flammable. Although not impossible but highly unlikely, a cigarette will ignite diesel under these circumstances.
The most likely source of ignition being static electricity. Diesel is highly prone to generating static electricity, while being transferred, which is why it is mandatory to connect an earth strap to the container being filled.
Your fellow's casual attitude, clearly displayed by his smoking whilst undertaking the task, no doubt saw him fail to earth the vessel.
The combustible diesel burns far slower than petrol and quite conceivably would have been still burning when the fire brigade arrived. Taking into consideration, the time and location of the incident, it would have taken time to extinguish the fire.

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WOW! [biggrin]

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Birthday party drive and back 326km yesterday in 2 to several degrees higher[bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle] Cold is supposed to hit EV range. I had slow charged the night before which clearly put the rebalancing thing in play as when 100% SOC it stayed as charging with a odd flicker or three of power for hours.

I had the heat on and frequent demister power as well, A large part of the drive was at 110kph. Passed many charging options I didn't use. My prior mg xs ev struggled to get 200km often. The newer current was usually in urgent need of a charge at 300km.

The remaining 6% charge last night was possibly 30 ok km more. Good, Still cannot tow my boat of course[biggrin][biggrin][biggrin].