EV general discussion

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Originally Posted by RANDLOVER

So does most of the stuff in most houses, a fire only has to take hold on one item for a little while to heat all the others items enough so that they start boiling off flammable gases and you have a "flash over", basically everything, everywhere all at once in the house catches fire.

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You are just being ridiculous for no reason ...... Of course other stuff burns. It can easily be put out. A fire that involves a battery cannot be extinguished. That is why these cars being stored/parked/charged under buildings is so horrendously dangerous. Its one thing to have a fire the sprinkler system put out .... These batteries burn hot enough melt concrete ... the collapse building structures eg: that airport in england. The problem with them torching off while charging, is there is often other EV's (or should I say giant batteries) located right next to them, that then torch off.

I have no doubts, anywhere that allows storage of EV's will become basically un-insurable in the near future. The risk of massive destruction is just too high. I'm also sure over the next few years, car ferries will refuse to transport any ev or hyrbrid as they will be un-insurable in the event of a fire.

I don't understand this "but look over there other cars burn".... "Look over there, other cars can required tens of thousands to be spent on them" crazy examples. Yes I know, ICE cars will corrode the engines away in much the same time period [bigrolf][bigrolf][bigrolf] So hilarious ...

Fires are not so easily put out, lots of buildings and lives lost to fires every year. I have a more positive view it is the early days of ev's and ways will be found to deal with them.
I think an ICE fire is far more likely to cause other ICE vehicle fires next to it than an ev setting other ev's alight. I think the ev thermal runaway threshold is much higher than the petrol or diesel flashpoint.

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Originally Posted by RANDLOVER

Fires are not so easily put out, lots of buildings and lives lost to fires every year. I have a more positive view it is the early days of ev's and ways will be found to deal with them.
I think an ICE fire is far more likely to cause other ICE vehicle fires next to it than an ev setting other ev's alight. I think the ev thermal runaway threshold is much higher than the petrol or diesel flashpoint.

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They are trying ... There is a blanket that can apparently contain an EV fire.... only the gas can build up under it causing an explosion, and it burns so hot how can you get anywhere near it to apply it (hot air will just blow it away). A recent genius one is what looks to be a jack with a polnt on it that will pierce the battery pack and allow water to be injected straight into the battery pack. Just nuts ... Do volunteer to use this gizmo on a car that is in "thermal run-away". Even if your parked at a boat ramp, and there is a bulldozer nearby (the big blade to protect the driver) pushes the car into the ocean..... it will continue to burn underwater as the battery creates its own fuel.

You can't put it out, you can't smother it.... you can't breath the air near it ... but "don't worry, other things burn too". an "poeople die in other fires too" .... [FishSlap][FishSlap]

AFAIK an ev battery will burn under water for a while till it cools, as it looses one of the prerequisites for fire namely heat, fuel, oxygen. It is not like solid state rocket fuel that self oxidises and makes its own oxygen to burn.

If things are as bad as you say, they might start to design ev's monocoques that act as as a bund, or bath tub, so it can just be filled with water to put it out. Much like diesel generators and oil filled transformers have a bund wall to prevent fuel escaping.

Luckily I don't have to volunteer to go to fires anymore, modern industrial electrical items are pretty safe, and I don't see why ev's can't be. I have been to electrical distribution board, vsd, motor, transformer, ups, battery, power pack, lighting, gpo socket, a/c fires actual or suspected fires. Early warning and fire inhibiting construction stopped those turning into disaster and the same can be done for ev's.

I don't see governments legislating for ev fires en masse so suspect the risk is small.

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Originally Posted by RANDLOVER

AFAIK an ev battery will burn under water for a while till it cools, as it looses one of the prerequisites for fire namely heat, fuel, oxygen. It is not like solid state rocket fuel that self oxidises and makes its own oxygen to burn.

If things are as bad as you say, they might start to design ev's monocoques that act as as a bund, or bath tub, so it can just be filled with water to put it out. Much like diesel generators and oil filled transformers have a bund wall to prevent fuel escaping

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No, the create there own fuel as they are burning. The water may cool it enough to stop it burning eventually .... but guess what water does ... it shorts batteries. So lucky you, it can burn again and again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQWGWtluejs

if you don't think water hurts the batteries ... whatever you do, don't google "flood ev", especially cars that have been flooded with salt water.

If that's true there should be plumes of smoke that can be seen from outer space from the sunken car carriers. I'm sure most if not all of the ev fires have been investigated by the brigades and or coroner, so if they really are so dangerous why hasn't there been total bans on their sale and operation?

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Originally Posted by RANDLOVER

If that's true there should be plumes of smoke that can be seen from outer space from the sunken car carriers. I'm sure most if not all of the ev fires have been investigated by the brigades and or coroner, so if they really are so dangerous why hasn't there been total bans on their sale and operation?

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Fortunately there are calmer heads in charge. :o

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

Oh come on .... The majority of cars get parked up ... generally just worn out but still working. If I went around my back paddock right now and spent a weekend with a battery and a boat tank, most of the parts cars would start and drive. They rest of them is just so far gone, they are not economically viable.

The average car age in australia is 10years old. I don't see a lot of EVs reaching this age and still being a functional vehicle. That's ok you think? 'Cos maybe its close to the average age. Well average ... means average, so likely HALF the cars on the road are over 10years old.

Bottom line ... enforce electric throw-aways like a lot of the luny 1st world countries are attempting, and what you do is take away the access to cars to your average person. Unless you can afford a new car under lease, you cannot afford a car at all (after all, who would be absolutely insane enough to by an eight year old EV ....).

These things have got to be the worse most insane thing we have ever done for the environment ... hands down ... easily.

seeya
Shane L.

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Dude.. most modern ICE cars will be lucky to see 15 years. It's the modern way. I really don't see EV's being any different.

Tesla has been selling EV's in Australia since 2014. AFAIK they haven't all spontaneously combusted, nor needed battery replacements. They seem to be getting on with it just fine.

If you want to get yourself concerned about short lived modern cars I really think you should be sending that firehose of angst at landrover. I don't think there will be many discoveries/defenders making it past 15 once the era of highly electronic cars. Just for fun I looked at carsales just now. There were quite a few older Discos (1,2), and ONE 2004 D3, and not a single other until like 2013. Only D4's. Because they are all basically being written off. Go and hate on them!

Yes some older cars can live far longer, but modern cars their first 10 years are their best years. After that they are basically on borrowed time.

Agreed, I think one could keep a Range Rover Classic or Series Landy running for ever, even if one had to eventually convert it to ev.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

Dude.. most modern ICE cars will be lucky to see 15 years. It's the modern way. I really don't see EV's being any different.

Tesla has been selling EV's in Australia since 2014. AFAIK they haven't all spontaneously combusted, nor needed battery replacements. They seem to be getting on with it just fine.

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Yes, lets just go in circles. You do have a point, it appears in recent time manufacturers and trying to make cars as unreliable as EV's. wet cambelts for example is insane ... oil pump running from belts is insane ... etc... Uncle tony likes to go off a conspiracy theorys like this, but as per usual, each side of an opinion has some valid points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKEkUs8MTnQ&vl=en

So the best option here is to make ICE car decent again, rather than trying to make them as crappy reliability wise as EV's.

seeya
Shane L.