EV general discussion

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

I don't ... they interest me about as much as watching grass grow...... Just like nearly every other modern car.


Really, so if I spend many tens of thousands on a new car, tens of thousands on a big solar system, I'm home during the day, I have offstreet parking .... and I'm very wealthy and own my own house .... It can be cheap to run .... Wow ... Just incredible (what a load of crap). This also ignores the horendous depreciation.



I don't believe that for a second. So we aren't digging up half the planet using child labour to build the batteries .... There is HUGE losses in the power it takes in charging them. We burn a huge amount of coal to boil the water to create electricity. Then we step the power up (transformer losses), send it down the high voltage lines (more losses), Step the voltage down (more losses)... then finally eventually ... we get to a DC charger than has upto a 30% power loss. Just amazing right?

But all of this is irrelevant really.... there is now what ... forty million electric cars in the world. They batteries will last 5 -> 8 years. They are very dangerous to store. "In theory" they can be recycled, but are certainly NOT. Talk about an environmental catastrophe in the making ... what in the hell will we do with 40million giant batteries other then bury them so they don't torch off half the world.



So? Who cares. I bet a nice big V8 mercedes from the last century is WAAAAaaaaayyyyy nicer to drive.


I honestly don't care. Electric cars are about as interesting as comparing fridges as the local harvey norman .... I seriously couldn't care less (don't worry, this goes for most modern cars ... not just the electric throw-aways)



Wow ... incredible. Lets look at the Citroen 2cv that dates back to the 1930s. independant suspension (check), ride quality (awesome ... night on incredible), lots of interior space, small on the outside... The tech integration is amazing. It has headlights, a wiper ... a heater fan. Just fabulous. Everything I need. All of the family members and my 12 year old can drive it. It might need 20litres of fuel every few hundred kms (don't worry, costs bugger all and takes about 90 seconds to fill the tank).

Amazing right?? Better than any EV ever made.[bigrolf] [bigrolf]

Everything you claim is amazing about an EV we have done for nearly 100year ... without fan fare. It is expected. I don't want any ****ty tech integration for any reason. That is the worse thing that has ever happened to a motor vehicle IMO.

seeya
Shane L.

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So why are you even in this thread?

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

So why are you even in this thread?

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Because it is so incredibly fascinating. I need to understand why there is so much dellusion.... You just need a headline and you can force anything onto the population. "We are saving the world".... Yeah, sure .......


seeya
Shane L.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/blob:http...b-1dccc4506276

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

According to the Ampol site a couple of weeks ago, their chargers are 75c a Kwh. There are discounts available eg NRMA is 5c a l for fuel. Two are very slowly being installed at Kincumber Coles and has been apparently finished for about 2 weeks but not open. I wonder if the sub station has to be upgraded?

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

Captain Rightfoot you do not mention the Elephant in the room; DEPRECIATION, insurance, additional tyres compared to similar size but lighter ICE car. Depreciation is generally the highest cost of car ownership.
This CO2 thing is strange. Hothouses pump CO2 into their buildings to promote plant Growth. I have seen reports that World desert total area is reducing by regreening. These should be considered tremendously good results from more CO2 but this is ignored by the doomsdayers. I personally live in an area where there are many wave cut platforms currently way above high tide level to me showing that the sea level has been much higher in the past. The sandstone columns in Phuket and Ha Long bays show erosion way above current sea level. Maybe many of the doomsdayers own coastal properties on the first sandhill. That is certainly the case at Wamberal where the residents now want to be bailed out by other ratepayers.


Regards PhilipA

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Point 1. Depreciation. I'm not ignoring deprectiation. It's a thing. A big thing. If you don't want depreciation... don't buy a car.. or pretty much anything else. I've said all along.. if you don't need a car run what you have. That's the best for everyone. We needed a car.

Despite what is said in the local media, the values of EV's seem to be holding up reasonably well. In my case, at this juncture it my car is doing the market average, or a little better. At this juncture it looks as though it's value at the end of the lease will be about 20% more than the residual.

Point 2. Again I don't know where this comes from. My car's tyres are still fine at 30k. Probably we will do 50+ which seems ok. As we've been through and through.. a purpose designed EV is't really any heavier than an ICE car, or if it is only marginally so. They aren't intrinsically hard on tyres. In my case Tesla say the only maintenance they recommend you do is rotate the tyres every 10k. If you do that they seem to last well.

There is a bonus too that you haven't mentioned. No brake wear. Brakes seem to be for the life of the car. I've heard of several reports of teslas with 200k+ on them with barely measurable brake wear. The only time I actually touch the brake pedal is if something unexpected happens in front of me which might only happen every few drives. At 50k our VW.. the dealer asked for $1600 for front and rear pads, and front rotors. See below is a photo of the front pad/rotor of a tesla at just under 30k. Looks new to me.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

That sounds pretty cheap. Say how much depreciation have you lost on that over the last 5 years versus an electric throw-away ....

Now, quote me how much it would cost ot charge a throw-away from public chargers whlie traveling anywhere for the 1000+km you probably get from the proper car .... I bet its more expensive to run than the big useful vehicle.

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Lots of free ones other than the free charging happening out side here at the moment. King Island one is "Free to guests staying overnight" Not sure how to get my non swimming car there?


Picking a nice quote for you at Fitzroy Crossing states it is .30 to .60c per kWh or Warakurna Roadhouse for another remote charging site at First St, Warakurna WA 0872, Australia is accommodation included at "Powered campsite 15 amp outlet $35"


You can have a look via PlugShare - EV Charging Station Map - Find a place to charge your car!


Little trivia I just noted. Indonesia seems very well covered for public charging!


I think I posted the depreciation on the XSEV which was two years old? Very sweet price as a trade in for that one.


My newer 2023 mg4 will be a bit harsher given MG dropped the prices about 5k for new ones. I'll let you know next year about the 10,000 drive to and from Broome Marathon I missed doing this year


Red books suggested my 2023 with 80,000 current is lower end of 24 to 31K possibly.


The 80,000 km to date in the current has been $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$ cheaper than just the prior drive to WA and back. Noting I had to by the replacement disco for that trip after the Hail and rotten insurance types did my golden one in.


A little trivia thinking about the replacement disco. I killed the road tires that came on it and brought 5 new AT tires in Ceduna. The engine replacement after that was Not appreciated money at all I'll add $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$ cheaper in so many ways. It cannot tow my boat and cannot drive through rivers and up and down mountains of course.
Do it your way of course!


I am off to swim at a fish disco on my way to Wales today. "Fishy fiasco...Nuclear plant's £700million schemes to protect marine life includes 'fish discos' - but despite eye-watering cost it would only save ONE salmon every 12 years


The Hinkley Point C plant has been made to introduce a range of fish protection measures including a £50million 'fish disco' to appease environmental quangos.
But a new report commissioned by the Government has found that despite the eyewatering price tag the schemes will save just 0.083 salmon, 0.028 sea trout, and 6 river lamprey per year."


as a Diver and nuclear fuel nut how could I miss that underwater Music


The EV I booked for my UK- Wales trip will do over 1200 km Price included all charging; I won't be able to tell you how much the Poms charge to charge. The hire cost was cheap

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/blob:http...b-1dccc4506276


Point 1. Depreciation. I'm not ignoring deprectiation. It's a thing. A big thing. If you don't want depreciation... don't buy a car.. or pretty much anything else. I've said all along.. if you don't need a car run what you have. That's the best for everyone. We needed a car.

Despite what is said in the local media, the values of EV's seem to be holding up reasonably well. In my case, at this juncture it my car is doing the market average, or a little better. At this juncture it looks as though it's value at the end of the lease will be about 25% more than the residual.

Point 2. Again I don't know where this comes from. My car's tyres are still fine at 30k. Probably we will do 50+ which seems ok. As we've been through and through.. a purpose designed EV is't really any heavier than an ICE car, or if it is only marginally so. They aren't intrinsically hard on tyres. In my case Tesla say the only maintenance they recommend you do is rotate the tyres every 10k. If you do that they seem to last well.

There is a bonus too that you haven't mentioned. No brake wear. Brakes seem to be for the life of the car. I've heard of several reports of teslas with 200k+ on them with barely measurable brake wear. The only time I actually touch the brake pedal is if something unexpected happens in front of me which might only happen every few drives. At 50k our VW.. the dealer asked for $1600 for front and rear pads, and front rotors. See below is a photo of the front pad/rotor of a tesla at just under 30k. Looks new to me.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

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The break wear is an interesting one. My old 1960's Citroens still have there original unworn brake calipers on them (what on earth are they made of). The poogoe here at close to 300,000kms still has its original rotors on it. I've put one set of front brake pads in it. The front rotors are now at there minimum thickness and need replacing. The rears have a lot of life left. Imagine me not dancing in excitement at the idea of not wearing out brakes ...... I just changed the original brake rotors in my Citroen CX2500 GTi Turbo. A high performance turbo charge vehicle from the 1980's. They were finally down to the minimim thickness, at which point it makes the handbrake hard to keep in adjustment. It only took 40 years and 170,000 miles (miles, not kms). It still wears its original factory rear rotor and pads ( probably 20% worn... 80% left to go).

I never mentioned tires. I'm very hard on tires.... Especially the "round-a-bout" tire. EV's are VERY heavy so will wear tires. I don't really care about this. If I buy a heavy car and drive it hard, I expect it to wear out tires. Not having a spare, especially when EV's are often fitted with giant clown wheels that break (just like all other modern cars) is just nuts.

seeya
Shane L.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot;[emoji639

[emoji638][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji640]][emoji639][emoji639][emoji640]]So why are you even in this thread?

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….just to wind you up I suspect.

Let’s face it - no one comes here for technical advice or facts on EVs instead it is just to eat popcorn and watch the debate between the haters and admirers of the technology.

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Originally Posted by DiscoDB

….just to wind you up I suspect.

Let’s face it - no one comes here for technical advice or facts on EVs instead it is just to eat popcorn and watch the debate between the haters and admirers of the technology.

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I don't hate electric cars ... I think they are awesome in a lot of ways. I'm very much "anti-stupidity" though, and nearly everything about them is insanely stupid.

With all the hate going on in the UK towards EV's, there is no chance in hell I'd hire one over there. To much competition for the chargers from the locals there, as they are being forced by goverment mandates to buy one (remember the vast majority of people over there do not have offstreet parking of any sort).

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

The break wear is an interesting one. My old 1960's Citroens still have there original unworn brake calipers on them (what on earth are they made of). The poogoe here at close to 300,000kms still has its original rotors on it. I've put one set of front brake pads in it. The front rotors are now at there minimum thickness and need replacing. The rears have a lot of life left. Imagine me not dancing in excitement at the idea of not wearing out brakes ...... I just changed the original brake rotors in my Citroen CX2500 GTi Turbo. A high performance turbo charge vehicle from the 1980's. They were finally down to the minimim thickness, at which point it makes the handbrake hard to keep in adjustment. It only took 40 years and 170,000 miles (miles, not kms). It still wears its original factory rear rotor and pads ( probably 20% worn... 80% left to go).

I never mentioned tires. I'm very hard on tires.... Especially the "round-a-bout" tire. EV's are VERY heavy so will wear tires. I don't really care about this. If I buy a heavy car and drive it hard, I expect it to wear out tires. Not having a spare, especially when EV's are often fitted with giant clown wheels that break (just like all other modern cars) is just nuts.

seeya
Shane L.

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The brakes on my lotus I believe nearly 60 years old. They were worn and under thickness. I'm unclear what relevance that has to modern cars and their appetite for brakes and rotors.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

The brakes on my lotus I believe nearly 60 years old. They were worn and under thickness. I'm unclear what relevance that has to modern cars and their appetite for brakes and rotors.

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So 2007 isn't modern? Hmmm... Ok. I think most brakes that get changed, don't need it. Its a service item that can be charged for. If the brake rotors are not at the minimum thickness ... new pads and your done. New brake rotors are not seasoned ... so will wear heavily if just fitted and used hard. They don't sit in stock for any length of time usually.

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

So 2007 isn't modern? Hmmm... Ok. I think most brakes that get changed, don't need it. Its a service item that can be charged for. If the brake rotors are not at the minimum thickness ... new pads and your done. New brake rotors are not seasoned ... so will wear heavily if just fitted and used hard. They don't sit in stock for any length of time usually.

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The poogoe here at close to 300,000kms still has its original rotors on it. I've put one set of front brake pads in it. The front rotors are now at there minimum thickness and need replacing.

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You're a total outlier.

Hands up anyone else in here who has 300k on their original rotors!

In Brisbane - on modern cars 50k out of a set of rotors is considered on the good side of average. Particularly on euros.