EV general discussion

I think it was back around when the posts were still in the double digits 6 years ago that the misinformation started to first appear.

Doesn’t matter what I agree with, but every claim has been made repeatedly, argued with facts, sometimes with unproven myths, but always over and over. Neither side is going to acknowledge the other point of view.

But when I see two members squabbling and point scoring - the facts are irrelevant. This is not a healthy discussion.

Take a leaf out of NavyDivers book. He presents information of interest, backed by his real usage experience, and if people throw barbs at his choice of vehicle he ignores and moves on.

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Originally Posted by DiscoDB

I think it was back around when the posts were still in the double digits 6 years ago that the misinformation started to first appear.

Doesn’t matter what I agree with, but every claim has been made repeatedly, argued with facts, sometimes with unproven myths, but always over and over. Neither side is going to acknowledge the other point of view.

But when I see two members squabbling and point scoring - the facts are irrelevant. This is not a healthy discussion.

Take a leaf out of NavyDivers book. He presents information of interest, back by his real usage experience, and if people throw barbs at his choice of vehicle he ignores and moves on.

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So the misinformation is what you don't agree with. Fair enough. I've never disagreed with anything that is correct that has been posted. You will always find I agree with facts that are correct, even if I disagree with the outcomes of the facts (eg: how much C02 is generated by burning petrol ... its true ... but that doesn't mean the world is ending).

seeya
Shane L.

I like it - that is a good start. Look for the areas you agree with first and acknowledge it.

And yes I agree - cars will not be the end of the world (be it ICE or EV).

Edit: but ironically they are one of the leading causes for end of life caused by an object. D’oh!

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Originally Posted by DiscoDB

….just to wind you up I suspect.

Let’s face it - no one comes here for technical advice or facts on EVs instead it is just to eat popcorn and watch the debate between the haters and admirers of the technology.

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We've got the perspective of a couple of people here who actually own one, and some that just don't like them at all. Ev's are all throwaways that also all catch fire and need three batteries every 100k. And then if an EV catches fire somewhere in the world...

https://youtu.be/DQkUpviyTIQ?si=FsUH8vFVS12WYWc8

PS I'm unclear how they last long enough to need three batteries by 100k as if you listen to this thread they all would have caught fire by then. Or even long enough to be thrown away?

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

So the misinformation is what you don't agree with. Fair enough. I've never disagreed with anything that is correct that has been posted. You will always find I agree with facts that are correct, even if I disagree with the outcomes of the facts (eg: how much C02 is generated by burning petrol ... its true ... but that doesn't mean the world is ending).

seeya
Shane L.

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Just the other day I looked at the tesla app, saw the supercharging prices and put them in here. You then told me I was wrong and it was like 20c more than what I said. So then I checked them again, and they were still what I said. You then said that petrol was 30c less than I quoted, and I'm looking at the petrol spy app...

There are many other instances like this in here. EV's will need multiple battery replacements. Ev's all catch fire. You can't just say something is so when it isn't. I mean you can but...

This was posted on another forum I'm on .... Another way the goverments are trying to push people into electric throw-aways.

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The French economy is in a position of stagnation with annual growth of a quarter of one percent coming mostly from immigration. French car companies are losing money producing for a domestic market that has contracted by over 27% since 2019. The French budget deficit is huge, the largest in the EU.
The French Government has come a with a scheme of "social leasing" of EV's to both boost production and to assist the uptake of EV's by low income households.
It is a three year lease costing from 180 to 200 euros a month based on model. There are 36 eligible models up to a top price of 47,000 euros. Eligible households must have an income of under 16,300 euros, have a travel distance of not under 15 km each way or a business use of at least 8000 kms each year. They will be handed back at the end and may be purchased for the residual. There is no mention of who pays if the car has devalued more than the lease payments.

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We wouldn't do something like this here as we don't have any local industry to try and protect. As I have no doubt, the electric throw-aways on the scheme will all be made in Europe.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

We've got the perspective of a couple of people here who actually own one, and some that just don't like them at all. Ev's are all throwaways that also all catch fire and need three batteries every 100k. And then if an EV catches fire somewhere in the world...

https://youtu.be/DQkUpviyTIQ?si=FsUH8vFVS12WYWc8

PS I'm unclear how they last long enough to need three batteries by 100k as if you listen to this thread they all would have caught fire by then. Or even long enough to be thrown away?

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So we are back to attacking the person again. So sad. You are the one that keeps saying the batteries last xxxx number of kms. I have never said that. I have always said "I've never owned a lithium battery that lasts longer than 5->8 years regardless of usage". I talk longevity you keep talking milage.

I never said every EV catches fire, I've said the statistics being thrown around and incredibly suspect, and the ramifications of fire are huge. The burning issue (yes I said burning) is hwo the hell will the world handle 20+ milliion aging degrading battery packs in the future without torching off half the planet. Even if only 1 in 100,000 burn ... that is giong to set of all the "recyling" (or should we say storage yards) all over the world like clockwork. Just like is currnetly happening all of the battery plants that recycle small lithium batteries.

Try all you like to make me out to sound like a luny nut case. Twist my words, I don't care. I am however not going to agree with stupidity, and everything we are doing at the moment is utter stupidity.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

Just the other day I looked at the tesla app, saw the supercharging prices and put them in here. You then told me I was wrong and it was like 20c more than what I said. So then I checked them again, and they were still what I said. You then said that petrol was 30c less than I quoted, and I'm looking at the petrol spy app...

There are many other instances like this in here. EV's will need multiple battery replacements. Ev's all catch fire. You can't just say something is so when it isn't. I mean you can but...

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Are you feeling ok? Do you need to sit down for a bit. Why do you think all EVs catch fire?. I think you might need a cup of tea. Would you believe prices fluctuate. I'm sure you'll feel a bit better after a little rest.

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

I have always said "I've never owned a lithium battery that lasts longer than 5->8 years regardless of usage". I talk longevity you keep talking milage.

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What you state here is correct. The batteries you have owned are probably for mobile phones or battery powered tools. And yes they last 5-8 years.

This is probably one of the sources of the biggest and most common misinformation that gets propagated in social medial.

Fortunately the batteries in EVs are not the same. They may use the same raw materials but the manufacturing, assembly, built in cooling/heating, charging controls etc are all totally different.

Many studies support that most modern EV batteries can be expected to last 15-20 years and will still be useable even at this point.

And if you were one of the very few to have an EV battery fail in under 8 years it would be replaced under warranty.

The life expectancy and replacement costs are very similar to many modern ICE engines when it comes to expected mileage, sometimes even at lower cost.

One thing that would be good to see is the standard warranty for all vehicles (ICE and EV) to default to 10 years or 250,000kms for private use. Some are now offering this.

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Originally Posted by DiscoDB

What you state here is correct. The batteries you have owned are probably for mobile phones or battery powered tools. And yes they last 5-8 years.

This is probably one of the sources of the biggest and most common misinformation that gets propagated in social medial.

Fortunately the batteries in EVs are not the same. They may use the same raw materials but the manufacturing, assembly, built in cooling/heating, charging controls etc are all totally different.

Many studies support that most modern EV batteries can be expected to last 15-20 years and will still be useable even at this point.

And if you were one of the very few to have an EV battery fail in under 8 years it would be replaced under warranty.

The life expectancy and replacement costs are very similar to many modern ICE engines when it comes to expected life, sometimes even at lower cost.

One thing that would be good to see is the standard warranty for all vehicles (ICE and EV) to default to 10 years or 250,000kms for private use. Some are now offering this.

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The best thing about this .... Is we are going to find out over the next 10years ! Bluntly I don't believe it. There hasn't been a battery made ... ever that lasts that long that I am aware of. But sure, "just believe us" like every thing else to do with net zero and EVs :)