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30th December 2025, 09:02 AM
Captain_Rightfoot

So I was going to link a video in here. I think it's excellent .Unfortunatly he drops the f-bomb. Once.

If you feel like it - Look it up. It's by Henk Green and the video is titled "The Bizarre Logic of the F-150 Lightning"

Anyway he touches on soooo many things.

The unsuitability of utes and large utes for electrification. But also how good EV's are as cars. And how for many people they are virtue signaling.

My position hasn't changed. The strawman argument is stupid "You can't hook the van up and travel around Aus - so we won't bother with EV's at all". That's just nuts. Lets just electrify the easy things. Unfortunately dual cab utes have become aspirational vehicles so - the bulk of these vehicles are purchased as value statements. Like my neighbour. He thinks he's a good looking guy. Fit, works out. He's got a perpetually shiny ranger raptor without even a tow bar and a big empty tub. It's his town car. He holidays in Bali. Utter stupidity.

Look whatever.. i know it's everyones right to drive what they want. But if we want to cut our emissions we're going to have to choose at some point pretty soon. I sure hope we don't end up having to buy these vehicles off the road after in many cases we've encouraged people to buy them. We need to close the FBT ute loophole, and instant asset write off (maybe that one is already closed). NVES needs to be allowed to run and run hard and not be overturned because Toyota doesn't like it.

While we sort that we really do need to encourage people to electrify their city cars. Let's do what's easy first. We need to make it easy to make good choices.

PS yes I know many in here are climate change deniers, or think CO2 is just a delicious plant food. I don't need to be reminded. I'm aware.
30th December 2025, 10:21 AM
Saitch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

PS yes I know many in here are climate change deniers, or think CO2 is just a delicious plant food. I don't need to be reminded. I'm aware.

I am a firm believer in 'Climate Change', as over the years, I have been enlightened by some very learned rellies.
What cruels a lot of the discussion for me, is that the Authorities, certain government departments, sectors of main stream media and invested interest, motoring groups, are pushing the agenda using somewhat selective data.

Also, in my existing situation, an EV is totally impractical for my general purposes. I'm sure I'm not alone, in this.
For suburban use, I'm all for EVs. For inner city, are private vehicles even necessary? I know people who have lived in an apartment in The Valley, in Brissie, for 10 years without a vehicle. If they want to go up or down the Coast or wherever, they hire a car. They're way ahead on costs.
However, any government, or EV crusader, trying to force me to buy something that is totally unsuitable to my needs, beggars belief.
30th December 2025, 12:24 PM
Captain_Rightfoot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saitch

I am a firm believer in 'Climate Change', as over the years, I have been enlightened by some very learned rellies.
What cruels a lot of the discussion for me, is that the Authorities, certain government departments, sectors of main stream media and invested interest, motoring groups, are pushing the agenda using somewhat selective data.

Also, in my existing situation, an EV is totally impractical for my general purposes. I'm sure I'm not alone, in this.
For suburban use, I'm all for EVs. For inner city, are private vehicles even necessary? I know people who have lived in an apartment in The Valley, in Brissie, for 10 years without a vehicle. If they want to go up or down the Coast or wherever, they hire a car. They're way ahead on costs.
However, any government, or EV crusader, trying to force me to buy something that is totally unsuitable to my needs, beggars belief.

See convincing one person against their will to change to a different vehicle is pointless and makes people unhappy. People have to buy an EV by their choice.

Clearly legacy carmakers aren't going to help us here. So it falls to the government I'm afraid. They can't tell people what to do but they can encourage people to make better choices.

It's not just direct incentives - but it's all sorts of things. In transport planning.. our cities are entirely car dependent. We had a transport planner here from overseas basically laughing at us. We're choking on traffic and we'd love a few less people to drive. But - our entire transport system is set up to make driving the easiest and most convenient option. So that's what people do. Choices... choices.
30th December 2025, 04:46 PM
DoubleChevron

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

So I was going to link a video in here. I think it's excellent .Unfortunatly he drops the f-bomb. Once.

If you feel like it - Look it up. It's by Henk Green and the video is titled "The Bizarre Logic of the F-150 Lightning"

Anyway he touches on soooo many things.

The unsuitability of utes and large utes for electrification. But also how good EV's are as cars. And how for many people they are virtue signaling.

My position hasn't changed. The strawman argument is stupid "You can't hook the van up and travel around Aus - so we won't bother with EV's at all". That's just nuts. Lets just electrify the easy things. Unfortunately dual cab utes have become aspirational vehicles so - the bulk of these vehicles are purchased as value statements. Like my neighbour. He thinks he's a good looking guy. Fit, works out. He's got a perpetually shiny ranger raptor without even a tow bar and a big empty tub. It's his town car. He holidays in Bali. Utter stupidity.

Look whatever.. i know it's everyones right to drive what they want. But if we want to cut our emissions we're going to have to choose at some point pretty soon. I sure hope we don't end up having to buy these vehicles off the road after in many cases we've encouraged people to buy them. We need to close the FBT ute loophole, and instant asset write off (maybe that one is already closed). NVES needs to be allowed to run and run hard and not be overturned because Toyota doesn't like it.

While we sort that we really do need to encourage people to electrify their city cars. Let's do what's easy first. We need to make it easy to make good choices.

PS yes I know many in here are climate change deniers, or think CO2 is just a delicious plant food. I don't need to be reminded. I'm aware.

That is right, you tell people what they need. We have already had this conversation. If you ever tow anything for any reason, even if its only a handful of times a year, you will need a twin cab ute. If you have a family and wish to tow, and don't have a trailer, you need a twin tab ute. If you are a trady and carry more than one person ever, you need a twin cab ute. The stupidity of saying people just aspire for them astounds me. No they don't, who the hell would ever want one? The problem is they are the swiss army knife of cars. If you need to ever tow, go offroad, carry a family, carry anything. This is really your only sensible option. Its absolutely nothing to do with any FBT loopholes ( It stuns me with the freebies being thrown at people all over the world to buy useless electric throw-away, they you could ever be offended by some apparently loop hole).

This is the sort of stupidity the must exist to try and say "you need an ev". only elitists that think they can tell other poeple what they should do (while not doing it themselves) should tell others what they are to do. I can guarantee everyone on this forum pushing EVs also own at least one, if not many proper cars. Likely included in this is a twin cab ute.
1st January 2026, 09:52 AM
Captain_Rightfoot

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

That is right, you tell people what they need. We have already had this conversation. If you ever tow anything for any reason, even if its only a handful of times a year, you will need a twin cab ute. If you have a family and wish to tow, and don't have a trailer, you need a twin tab ute. If you are a trady and carry more than one person ever, you need a twin cab ute. The stupidity of saying people just aspire for them astounds me. No they don't, who the hell would ever want one? The problem is they are the swiss army knife of cars. If you need to ever tow, go offroad, carry a family, carry anything. This is really your only sensible option. Its absolutely nothing to do with any FBT loopholes ( It stuns me with the freebies being thrown at people all over the world to buy useless electric throw-away, they you could ever be offended by some apparently loop hole).

This is the sort of stupidity the must exist to try and say "you need an ev". only elitists that think they can tell other poeple what they should do (while not doing it themselves) should tell others what they are to do. I can guarantee everyone on this forum pushing EVs also own at least one, if not many proper cars. Likely included in this is a twin cab ute.

You know that before twin cab utes that Australians managed to get around and tow lots of stuff. If you did it a lot maybe you got the falcon/commodore with the V8. I even had a tow bar on my sigma wagon and dragged stuff around with it.

People in the city - a good portion of them buy dual cab utes because they are aspirational vehicles. Sure they are just used for shopping and driving the kids to school but they would like to have an outward appearance that they might one day drive on the beach, or tow something. The car industry invests 690 million a year in marketing.

Nielsen data shows ad spend in Aus auto sector grew 8% over last 12 months, with EV media spend up sevenfold since 2021 | Nielsen

Update on the Raptor neighbour. They packed up the ranger and went away for a few days. I thought "maybe this is when they take it off road .. maybe up the beach". Nope they went to a place called "royal pines". It looks very nice and I note they have EV chargers. But I'm sure the Raptor was right at home in the car park. I mean maybe one day it will do something an EV couldn't. Maybe.

I really don't care whatever people buy. I understand that for some they are actually needed. But I remain convinced that if we want to meet climate targest then we are going to somehow encourage people to make better choices despite car industry marketing. I encourage you to go for a drive around in a city one time and see how many hard working DC utes you actually see. Transport emissions is currently at over 20% and it's growing as energy generation switches to renewables (sorry).

https://dynamic-media-cdn.tripadviso...=2400&h=-1&s=1

https://media.whichcar.com.au/upload...-Pack-Dune.jpg
1st January 2026, 10:39 AM
Tins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

I even had a tow bar on my sigma wagon and dragged stuff around with it.

Not 3.5 tonne, you didn't.

Quote:

People in the city - a good portion of them buy dual cab utes because they are aspirational vehicles. Sure they are just used for shopping and driving the kids to school but they would like to have an outward appearance that they might one day drive on the beach, or tow something.

Once again with the assumptions. They do not all live the way you do. For example, my son works bloody hard, so does his wife. They have two boys, one a teenager, the other nearly. The go away every chance they get. They used to tow a caravan, now it's a camper, but I think it'll be a van again soon. They also have a half share in a speed boat, and they have three trail bikes they take. But, if you saw her in her Y62 ( previously a 3.2 Ranger ) or him in his GU you will assume they are show ponies. Just how many cars would they need to prevent you from presumptions like this one? Keep the Patrols for the hols and drive what, Teslas? How much money would you like them to borrow?

Quote:

The car industry invests 690 million a year in marketing.

They spend more than that on morning tea. And did you notice that the biggest growth in marketing was to push EVs they struggle to sell?

Quote:

But I remain convinced that if we want to meet climate targest then we are going to somehow encourage people to make better choices despite car industry marketing.

You, and a rapidly diminishing number of others. You speak of marketing. That is precisely what you have fallen for. The greatest piece of manipulation the world has ever seen.
1st January 2026, 04:50 PM
Captain_Rightfoot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tins

Not 3.5 tonne, you didn't.

Once again with the assumptions. They do not all live the way you do. For example, my son works bloody hard, so does his wife. They have two boys, one a teenager, the other nearly. The go away every chance they get. They used to tow a caravan, now it's a camper, but I think it'll be a van again soon. They also have a half share in a speed boat, and they have three trail bikes they take. But, if you saw her in her Y62 ( previously a 3.2 Ranger ) or him in his GU you will assume they are show ponies. Just how many cars would they need to prevent you from presumptions like this one? Keep the Patrols for the hols and drive what, Teslas? How much money would you like them to borrow?

Good for them! So do they both have to tow 3.5 tonne at the same time? They must be one of the .00001% of the population! I wonder if they could have one 4x4 and a not a 4x4 for the other car?

Quote:

But, if you saw her in her Y62 ( previously a 3.2 Ranger ) or him in his GU you will assume they are show ponies.

So you think what they drive affects the way people might think of them? Bingo.. That's marketing doing it's job. Everyone thinks they are different.

I would suggest that your assumptions about normal usage are just as valid as mine. Sorry - but when I see a pristine dual cab driving around suburbia I will continue to count that as an "virtue signaling vehicle". There are no hard figures of course - just what people answer in surveys. I'm sure everyone has their special reason why. I would think Continental have probably got the percentage right.

Quote:

A study by Continental Tyres has revealed only four per cent of Australians take their SUVs off-road – despite buying them for their ‘outdoor’ appeal.

Only four per cent of Aussies take their SUV off-road | CarExpert

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tins

They spend more than that on morning tea. And did you notice that the biggest growth in marketing was to push EVs they struggle to sell?

You, and a rapidly diminishing number of others. You speak of marketing. That is precisely what you have fallen for. The greatest piece of manipulation the world has ever seen.

Are you aware that Tesla doesn't do marketing apart from a few socials? So I reckon your statement is entirely made up.

Just a moment...

Again.. clearly looking at the numbers Australians have been convinced that they need dualcabs and they are prepared to pay for them. But - we got by and did everything we needed to up until very recently without them. So if we want to achieve our climate goals then at least some of us are going to have to make better choices.

I'm darn sure car companies will be fighting to the bitter end to keep milking the DC/SUV cash cow. I'm also sure they hope that when NVES bites they will somehow be able to dodge it.
1st January 2026, 04:57 PM
V8Ian

1 Attachment(s)

Twin cabs have been around since before I could read the badge.

Attachment 195392
1st January 2026, 07:34 PM
NavyDiver

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8Ian

Twin cabs have been around since before I could read the badge.

Attachment 195392

Happy New year Sir Ian.

Back to EVs. I drove a KGM Musso ev yesterday. Should I?

400km ish range is NOT what I want, The truck did not get close to the mg4 pick up and no speed sign recognition is an amazing omission[bigwhistle][bigwhistle][bigwhistle]

On the Plus- It can tow my boat. It does lane keeping assistance better than the MG, The OFF for lane keep and other bits is MUCH better than the MG[biggrin]

My swag MIGHT fit with the back of the tray down? Honestly the battery being very accessible to swap out for a SOILD STATE was VERY interesting. The salesman and crew where a hoot on that one.

The basic version I drove Is NOT ok for me. The dual motor just might be?? I just paid $138 for petrol[bigsad][bigsad][bigsad] The tow tug the ex Vic Pol commodore was 80% of the fuel. Boat was 18litres after my cray dive with NO Crays. Trivia a smallish great white shark was caught and released at Barwon heads. The news showed reports of Great Whites recently. One was where I was diving last week[biggrin]

Last time I know I was Diving in the water with a Great White was at Kangaroo Island. It was 6 Metres[thumbsupbig][thumbsupbig] My son wanted to stay close to the shore and my WA dive/fishing mate stayed in the boat!

No spare tire for the boat yet. A short tow for scallops tomorrow should be fine. 20 meter deep north of Mud Island is my plan. No bites please [biggrin][biggrin][biggrin]
1st January 2026, 08:26 PM
DoubleChevron

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

You know that before twin cab utes that Australians managed to get around and tow lots of stuff. If you did it a lot maybe you got the falcon/commodore with the V8. I even had a tow bar on my sigma wagon and dragged stuff around with it.

You have never towed anything right? I can't believe the stupidity of saying you can tow with a small light weight passenger sedan. You are talking a tow capacity of 1200 -> 1500kg. Which is tiny, but still way to much as that is the cars weight. google the falcodore tow capacity if you don't believe me. Only people that have never towed equate engine size/power to tow capacity. Who cares if its a V8, its still a small light weight passenger sedan.

Quote:

People in the city - a good portion of them buy dual cab utes because they are aspirational vehicles. Sure they are just used for shopping and driving the kids to school but they would like to have an outward appearance that they might one day drive on the beach, or tow something. The car industry invests 690 million a year in marketing.

You are wrong. Look at the crappy little cars that fill the roads .... You are only talking 10-> 15% of the cars sold. Electric throw-aways have been selling nearly this much over the last two years.

Quote:

Nielsen data shows ad spend in Aus auto sector grew 8% over last 12 months, with EV media spend up sevenfold since 2021 | Nielsen

What an utterly stupid, pointless statistic. I'm not even clicking on something so ridiculous. Really, EV's are up sevenfold since 2021 .... The damn things barely existed before 2021. That's like saying the latest Iphone sales are up 100% on what they were 5 years ago (when they didn't exist).

Quote:

Update on the Raptor neighbour. They packed up the ranger and went away for a few days. I thought "maybe this is when they take it off road .. maybe up the beach". Nope they went to a place called "royal pines". It looks very nice and I note they have EV chargers. But I'm sure the Raptor was right at home in the car park. I mean maybe one day it will do something an EV couldn't. Maybe.

What is your point. Are you saying you should be able to decide what sort of car your neighbour buys. I'd love to live next door to you so I could tell you exactly what I thought of your opinions on what I personaly should buy. Hang on, don't you own a twin cab ute. Say your not religious are you? That is way most religious nutters live, they want to tell everyone else how they should live there life, while not doing what they say themselves.

Quote:

I really don't care whatever people buy. I understand that for some they are actually needed. But I remain convinced that if we want to meet climate targest then we are going to somehow encourage people to make better choices despite car industry marketing. I encourage you to go for a drive around in a city one time and see how many hard working DC utes you actually see. Transport emissions is currently at over 20% and it's growing as energy generation switches to renewables (sorry).

You obviously very much do care what other people buy, you sure spend a lot of time explaining to everyone why "everyone else" is stupid for doing exactly what you have done yourself. Yes "transport" is about 20% (of 1% of pollution) for autralia. This includes, shipping, trains, planes, trucks... all of transport. Personal cars would be a tiny percentage of this. They are very careful not to seperate this out from the "tranport" figure as it would show how ridiculous this electric throw-away caper is.

Quote:

https://dynamic-media-cdn.tripadviso...=2400&h=-1&s=1

https://media.whichcar.com.au/upload...-Pack-Dune.jpg

I'll say it again. It is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS what other poeple decide to buy and own. You get no say in it. You appear to be the very average "do as I say, not as I do" type person that I would ignore completely.

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