Thread: EV general discussion

Originally Posted by Homestar

I don’t think there’s many comments at all saying they are useless to everyone. Just seems the limited to those who poke around the City and have good infrastructure where they live and drive and have a large disposable income - oh, that’s right - the Wealthy - who are very happy to tell the great unwashed to suck it up and get on board.

That's exactly my point. 71% of people in Australia live in "major cities". I really do suspect that a very large proportion of those could get by with an EV solely, or at least swap one of their many cars for an EV instead of a large 4x4.

And maybe those people in cities are more wealthy but it's probably a bit dependent. Either way I see that as moot, because in recent times the biggest selling cars in Australia have been the Hulux and Ford Ranger. Both of which are at least as expensive or more than the most popular EV's in Australia. So I really don't see how this differers to the situation we have now where through decades of marketing the car companies have convinced families that the all need one or multiple large SUV's for family life.

You should do yourself a favour and check the top 20 selling cars in Australia. There are maybe only 5 that even have a model under 30k. The car industry always wins.

2071.0 - Census of Population and Housing: Reflecting Australia - Stories from the Census, 2016

And one last point, yes I would much rather the pollution be produced and dissipated in the areas that our coal generators have been placed (the power that isn't renewable anyway). The Calide power station for instance is in an area in which 126 people live in 76 square kilometres. I do think that letting it dissipate out there is preferable to the main road 10m from the kindy's around Australia that our youth attend, for instance. For the most part I think I can say that these facilities are not placed in major cities.

I don't think it is marketing at all.
People with families need the room,the majority of Ev's are tiny.

Probably over half the new ute or large wagons are company cars,where they are needed for work,an EV will never cut it,in their current form.

For an average family,i can see an EV would be fine as a second car,but then the issue is,do they have access to a charger at home?
Maybe not if living in a unit block,or a house that is being rented,or whatever.
Most family vehicles are also over 10yrs old,many that have a vehicle less than 10yrs old,are not going to race out and buy a new one now,yet alone have the funds for one.

Perhaps worth pointing out at this time that most cars bought each day in Australia are not new. And most sales are probably in the under $20k range, perhaps under $10k. It is likely to be a long time before these buyers can get an EV that is useful to them.

I look for example at my son's house. At the moment it has four income earners, three on close to minimum wage and part time. And with no (or no usable for shift work) public transport and most jobs requiring a round trip commute of 60+km, all working different hours and places, multiple cars are essential. In fact, they have four cars, one D2 (under $10k), one I30 ($12k) both diesel, one Nissan Micra, one Getz, (both well under $10k).

Originally Posted by scarry

I don't think it is marketing at all.
People with families need the room,the majority of Ev's are tiny.

Probably over half the new ute or large wagons are company cars,where they are needed for work,an EV will never cut it,in their current form.

For an average family,i can see an EV would be fine as a second car,but then the issue is,do they have access to a charger at home?
Maybe not if living in a unit block,or a house that is being rented,or whatever.
Most family vehicles are also over 10yrs old,many that have a vehicle less than 10yrs old,are not going to race out and buy a new one now,yet alone have the funds for one.

Most EV's are tiny? Where do you get that from?

The biggest selling EV's in Australia last month were the Tesla Model Y and the BYD ATTO 3. The BYD Atto 3 is a big car inside. Very spacious. So is the Model Y. Fun fact for you, and current Landrover defender 110 has a cargo capacity of 2271l with the seats down. A Tesla Model Y with the seats down is 2041. If you make cars with no engine etc it's amazing how much space they have.

And yes, an there aren't many second hand EV's because in terms of numbers the majority of them on Australian roads would be less than 2 years old. Remember last june 1% EV's and this june nearly 9%. It's going to take a many years until there is a good supply of them.

In the meantime enjoy a photo of my "tiny" MY, which was Australias second most sold car last month, with a full size gravel bike in with both wheels on and room to spare.

Gravel_Bike_Boot.jpg

Originally Posted by JDNSW

Perhaps worth pointing out at this time that most cars bought each day in Australia are not new. And most sales are probably in the under $20k range, perhaps under $10k. It is likely to be a long time before these buyers can get an EV that is useful to them.

I look for example at my son's house. At the moment it has four income earners, three on close to minimum wage and part time. And with no (or no usable for shift work) public transport and most jobs requiring a round trip commute of 60+km, all working different hours and places, multiple cars are essential. In fact, they have four cars, one D2 (under $10k), one I30 ($12k) both diesel, one Nissan Micra, one Getz, (both well under $10k).

It's going to be years until there is a meaningful quantity of EV's second hand. In the meantime, the best thing you can do is drive what you have. Wear the ice pool out. If you are buying new, actually meaningfully consider an EV.

Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

That's exactly my point. 71% of people in Australia live in "major cities". I really do suspect that a very large proportion of those could get by with an EV solely, or at least swap one of their many cars for an EV instead of a large 4x4.

And maybe those people in cities are more wealthy but it's probably a bit dependent. Either way I see that as moot, because in recent times the biggest selling cars in Australia have been the Hulux and Ford Ranger. Both of which are at least as expensive or more than the most popular EV's in Australia. So I really don't see how this differers to the situation we have now where through decades of marketing the car companies have convinced families that the all need one or multiple large SUV's for family life.

You should do yourself a favour and check the top 20 selling cars in Australia. There are maybe only 5 that even have a model under 30k. The car industry always wins.

2071.0 - Census of Population and Housing: Reflecting Australia - Stories from the Census, 2016

And one last point, yes I would much rather the pollution be produced and dissipated in the areas that our coal generators have been placed (the power that isn't renewable anyway). The Calide power station for instance is in an area in which 126 people live in 76 square kilometres. I do think that letting it dissipate out there is preferable to the main road 10m from the kindy's around Australia that our youth attend, for instance. For the most part I think I can say that these facilities are not placed in major cities.

Out of the 71% that live in Cities, how many earn above the average wage? How many of those can afford an EV? Of those how many want an EV? I think you’ll find it’s the numbers get smaller every time you work through that equation.

Originally Posted by Homestar

Out of the 71% that live in Cities, how many earn above the average wage? How many of those can afford an EV? Of those how many want an EV? I think you’ll find it’s the numbers get smaller every time you work through that equation.

It could still be quite a large number even with all those reductions.

I bet you could do a similar exercise to reduce the number of people for whom a new Toyota Corolla would be suitable, yet they have sold over 50 million since 1966.

List of best-selling automobiles - Wikipedia

Originally Posted by vnx205

It could still be quite a large number even with all those reductions.

I bet you could do a similar exercise to reduce the number of people for whom a new Toyota Corolla would be suitable, yet they have sold over 50 million since 1966.

List of best-selling automobiles - Wikipedia

Large yes, I’m not denying that, I’m just sick of being told we all must consider an EV as our next vehicle - Well to all this people - you all MUST consider an ICE vehicle for your next purchase!

… No? Why not? Don’t want one huh, don’t suit your needs, I see….

Guess what, that’s how I and soooo many others feel about EV’s!

Even if you end up with a figure of 50% then that still doesn’t come close to the 100% the the EV crowd think want can use or can afford one.

I just don’t get it. Buy one, drive one love one - I’m super happy for all those that do, but like religion - don’t force it down my throat.