Thread: EV general discussion

Originally Posted by NavyDiver

No Philip I mean the many millions of direct and indirect taxpayer support given to several sectors very quietly. I appreciate the benefit exports provide Australia........

What exactly are these subsidies, and to what extent do they exceed "subsidies" given to other industries? I see this claim repeatedly, but have yet to see a clear explanation of what subsidies are explicitly given to fossil fuel industries as opposed to industry in general.

And perhaps also worth pointing out that minerals are mostly "owned", not by "Australians", but by the Crown, i.e. by the states. (In a few very rare cases they are owned by landholders).

And the main reason for strong government support for these industries is that all Australian governments get a lot of their income from fossil fuels. In the case of NSW and Qld from coal royalties, and WA, SA, Qld, Victoria, NT from oil and gas royalties, and all states and territories from the GST resulting from this economic activity, and the Commonwealth from company tax from both the fossil fuel companies and their suppliers and contractors and personal income tax from employees and shareholders. Not to mention fuel excise on most petrol and diesel.

What I have yet to see is realistic proposals to replace this revenue.

Originally Posted by JDNSW

What exactly are these subsidies, and to what extent do they exceed "subsidies" given to other industries? I see this claim repeatedly, but have yet to see a clear explanation of what subsidies are explicitly given to fossil fuel industries as opposed to industry in general.

And perhaps also worth pointing out that minerals are mostly "owned", not by "Australians", but by the Crown, i.e. by the states. (In a few very rare cases they are owned by landholders).

And the main reason for strong government support for these industries is that all Australian governments get a lot of their income from fossil fuels. In the case of NSW and Qld from coal royalties, and WA, SA, Qld, Victoria, NT from oil and gas royalties, and all states and territories from the GST resulting from this economic activity, and the Commonwealth from company tax from both the fossil fuel companies and their suppliers and contractors and personal income tax from employees and shareholders. Not to mention fuel excise on most petrol and diesel.

What I have yet to see is realistic proposals to replace this revenue.

Not in tax any more happy to say. I do know I and almost all of us get direct and indirect payment via the tax system. Mine are small.

Not suggesting Oil, gas and Coal are the only ones getting Tax payer subsidies.

On replacement revenues the news is very very good. Uranium, Hydrogen, Green steel and Aluminum from hydrogen or Cheap solar, wind.... may make the change from export ore from Australia to end product much cheaper here.

An EV has 4 times the volume of Cooper to our current cars I think I mentioned?


Revenue replacement one. Job shifts is two. There is a list of other bits of course. We are in a very very lucky place with several huge natural and political legal stability advantages over most other locations.

Aluminum is made where ever there is very cheap power. With China choking on pollution created making stuff now even they are changing how to get power as quickly as possible. They are currently cranking up Aluminum output which is due to a war and demand hitting the prices.

I wonder if Alcoa just might change tact at its Portland smelter? I just looked- My FAV 3 bays marathon is safer perhaps?
"PITTSBURGH--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Alcoa Corporation (NYSE: AA) announced today that the Portland Aluminium joint venture plans to restart 35,000 metric tons per year (mtpy) of curtailed capacity at its aluminum smelter in the State of Victoria in Australia.

The process to restart the capacity, which has been idle since 2009, will begin immediately, with metal production expected to start in the third quarter of 2022.

Portland Aluminium is an unincorporated joint venture with 358,000 mtpy of total capacity, and Alcoa Corporation has 197,000 mtpy of consolidated capacity. Once the restart is complete, Portland Aluminium will operate at approximately 95 percent of total capacity and Alcoa Corporation will have approximately 186,000 mtpy of its consolidated capacity at Portland operating."



What does Alcoa's choice say? "Power will be cheaper here", jobs will stay here, industry will move here to me! Personally I see power likely to be cheapest at the HUGE solar, wind, hydrogen, ammonia.. production plans in Western Australia. Blind Freddy can see that

Iron ore to go overseas or stay here? Which makes more revenue? Which would you prefer to see? Personally I want some iron ore in a Hazer hydrogen plant ASAP here there and everywhere myself

The human and political negatives of killing people with pollution in China are clear.

The positives of moving massive $$$$$$$$ subsidies from dead and dying coal and similar sectors to the NEW ones is also very clear. New and larger revenue for our country. More jobs and safe and stable power.

Every one can and does have there own views on this of course. The coal dead cat bounce is occurring now. Money can and will be made.

On the bright side We all owe coal power a lot. On the dark side all of us and our kids have a huge ongoing debt due to that benefit we can now all see from the coal burnt and the C02 emission.

Back on EV specific The Traralgon Marathon on in June. Is there a Fast charger? I have - not really a problem as my quirky ev even at a turtle power plug charge rate gets me there and back - I just looked Moe has one $6-18ish will be much cheaper that the train and sooo much cheaper than my Disco drive. A free 22kw charger that may or may not work is at "Traralgon Centre Plaza" Its a Tesla destination charger. They can be wired for everyone or just Tesla's They are often a PITA to use anyway. One hour time limit for example in Warrnambool with at least two hours charging to get to another location just one silly bit with that type. Warrnambool Tesla destination charge is also located at the wrong end for my car I skip it entirely now.


Not sitting Traralgon Centre Plaza for 4 hours or do I just park it there while I run the marathon? So many questions. The big one is will I finally get under 4 hours again this run? Really that is my main aim My sub 3 dreams are fading

New and larger revenue, offset by newer larger cost of living.

That’s the whole economic issue that needs to be understood and dealt with.

I noted a couple of days ago that I think it was on TV that Tesla recorded AFAIR 4485 sales in March 2022.

If so that is a fabulous result and really no other EV is within a "bulls Roar".
In fact it would have been one of the top sellers of any car ICE or EV.
Regards PhilipA

Originally Posted by NavyDiver

Not in tax any more happy to say. I do know I and almost all of us get direct and indirect payment via the tax system. Mine are small.

Not suggesting Oil, gas and Coal are the only ones getting Tax payer subsidies.

On replacement revenues the news is very very good. Uranium, Hydrogen, Green steel and Aluminum from hydrogen or Cheap solar, wind.... may make the change from export ore from Australia to end product much cheaper here.

An EV has 4 times the volume of Cooper to our current cars I think I mentioned?


Revenue replacement one. Job shifts is two. There is a list of other bits of course. We are in a very very lucky place with several huge natural and political legal stability advantages over most other locations.

Aluminum is made where ever there is very cheap power. With China choking on pollution created making stuff now even they are changing how to get power as quickly as possible. They are currently cranking up Aluminum output which is due to a war and demand hitting the prices.

I wonder if Alcoa just might change tact at its Portland smelter? I just looked- My FAV 3 bays marathon is safer perhaps?
"PITTSBURGH--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Alcoa Corporation (NYSE: AA) announced today that the Portland Aluminium joint venture plans to restart 35,000 metric tons per year (mtpy) of curtailed capacity at its aluminum smelter in the State of Victoria in Australia.

The process to restart the capacity, which has been idle since 2009, will begin immediately, with metal production expected to start in the third quarter of 2022.

Portland Aluminium is an unincorporated joint venture with 358,000 mtpy of total capacity, and Alcoa Corporation has 197,000 mtpy of consolidated capacity. Once the restart is complete, Portland Aluminium will operate at approximately 95 percent of total capacity and Alcoa Corporation will have approximately 186,000 mtpy of its consolidated capacity at Portland operating."



What does Alcoa's choice say? "Power will be cheaper here", jobs will stay here, industry will move here to me! Personally I see power likely to be cheapest at the HUGE solar, wind, hydrogen, ammonia.. production plans in Western Australia. Blind Freddy can see that

Iron ore to go overseas or stay here? Which makes more revenue? Which would you prefer to see? Personally I want some iron ore in a Hazer hydrogen plant ASAP here there and everywhere myself

The human and political negatives of killing people with pollution in China are clear.

The positives of moving massive $$$$$$$$ subsidies from dead and dying coal and similar sectors to the NEW ones is also very clear. New and larger revenue for our country. More jobs and safe and stable power.

Every one can and does have there own views on this of course. The coal dead cat bounce is occurring now. Money can and will be made.

On the bright side We all owe coal power a lot. On the dark side all of us and our kids have a huge ongoing debt due to that benefit we can now all see from the coal burnt and the C02 emission.

Back on EV specific The Traralgon Marathon on in June. Is there a Fast charger? I have - not really a problem as my quirky ev even at a turtle power plug charge rate gets me there and back - I just looked Moe has one $6-18ish will be much cheaper that the train and sooo much cheaper than my Disco drive. A free 22kw charger that may or may not work is at "Traralgon Centre Plaza" Its a Tesla destination charger. They can be wired for everyone or just Tesla's They are often a PITA to use anyway. One hour time limit for example in Warrnambool with at least two hours charging to get to another location just one silly bit with that type. Warrnambool Tesla destination charge is also located at the wrong end for my car I skip it entirely now.


Not sitting Traralgon Centre Plaza for 4 hours or do I just park it there while I run the marathon? So many questions. The big one is will I finally get under 4 hours again this run? Really that is my main aim My sub 3 dreams are fading

Yes to a charger, there is one out the front of RACV solar warehouse in Traralgon.
I can PM my mate Andy who is the CEO and find out if it's a fast charger.

Stock land Underground carpark has a charger, otherwise everything else is tesla

Originally Posted by PhilipA

I noted a couple of days ago that I think it was on TV that Tesla recorded AFAIR 4485 sales in March 2022.

If so that is a fabulous result and really no other EV is within a "bulls Roar".
In fact it would have been one of the top sellers of any car ICE or EV.
Regards PhilipA

Like ice to EV things change quickly. I hear BYD "claims it will import 15,000 cars before the end of 2022, suggesting ambitions to outsell electric vehicle market leader Tesla in its first year on sale."

Not owning one yet give the sold out of everything not costing $$$$$$$$ to run it might be possible. A taxi fleet order rumor is interesting. I did see a article comparing German built /Chinese build musk ones . It might be interesting if anyone is looking at that brand.

Still waiting for our favorite brand to get its skates on for us.

Originally Posted by PhilipA

I noted a couple of days ago that I think it was on TV that Tesla recorded AFAIR 4485 sales in March 2022.

If so that is a fabulous result and really no other EV is within a "bulls Roar".
In fact it would have been one of the top sellers of any car ICE or EV.
Regards PhilipA

3097 in March for Tesla bring them into the top 10. Model 3 came in 5th overall - beating both the Ford Ranger and Hyundai I 30 so a very impressive result.

All figures taken from here which are the monthly Vfacts data - VFACTS: March 2022 car sales figures released | CarExpert