Thread: EV general discussion

Originally Posted by NavyDiver

"Released in Honda's Summary of 2024 Honda Business Briefing on Direction of Electrification Initiatives and Investment Strategy, the company's outlook on EVs is one that aims to have a fully electric fleet by 2040.
And that includes all of its motorcycles."

That seem a big announcement

Certainly it's title is.

Will others follow suit?

https://www.auto123.com/en/news/amp/...engines/71542/

Originally Posted by Homestar

Will others follow suit?

https://www.auto123.com/en/news/amp/...engines/71542/

Elec J may wish to? "According to the lawsuit filed in Delaware Chancery Court, Musk and his brother Kimbal, a Tesla director, sold $30 billion worth of Tesla shares between late 2021 and late 2022.The sales occurred before news emerged that caused Tesla's stock price to drop.
The lawsuit claims Musk concealed his plan to use the proceeds to buy the social media platform Twitter, thereby selling Tesla shares at artificially inflated prices.
Additionally, Musk allegedly sold shares despite knowing that deliveries of new vehicles were falling short of official projections."

Originally Posted by Homestar

Will others follow suit?

https://www.auto123.com/en/news/amp/...engines/71542/

Hell! I hope not, there is not enough screen space left after Honda's little burst.

I saw that nissan leaf vid on the t00b as well. Is it just me or is a car with a mere 45k miles on it rather worn if the battery is already down to 70% capacity? We are sold lithium in droves because it is so much betterder (spelling intended) and can handle 2000 cycles easy! but 45K miles is certainly not 2000 cycles.

Let us assume that the poor leaf never did the 120miles from factory since most range predictions are somewhat exaggerated and say it started of doing 100 miles, gradually degrading to the 60 it can now do during this test. That is an average of 80 over the lifespan which means that to do 45000 miles with 80 miles tops you need to charge 563 times. That is a mere quarter of the 2000 cycles a lithium battery should be able to handle. Admittedly since the range is so poor most of the times they would not have kept the battery in the lithium butter-zone so that would have had an impact.

For once not bashing EV's but I wonder... The same came to light with Harry's video a while back. Now I know EVangelists (thanks to Cadogan for that term :P) will excuse it and say new battery tech will be there soon (tm) but I still find that somewhat disturbing to see.

PS. I decided to write down my conclusion in stead of waiting for a response since this thread does go rather fast in all sorts of directions.

If we are to keep a lithium battery in it's optimum zone we can use a mere 60% (which incidentally is about as much as you could use from a proper lead-acid battery to keep cycle life up which I find hilarious but that aside) since you need to keep it above 20% soc and charge it no further than 80%. Also, we should not charge with more than 0.5c (from memory). This means that any EV at this point in time, if bought for the environment AND your pocket should abide by those rules to last the longest and not waste raw materials. For that leaf (let's be generous and assume 120 miles from new) that means 72 miles of range and 2 hours charge time at least.

If you use it as a soccer-moms car then no doubt you can handle this, for any other use I am not sure...

Cheers,
-P

Originally Posted by Homestar

Will others follow suit?

https://www.auto123.com/en/news/amp/...engines/71542/

I think they all will. Why build things only a few want? Reckon the writing's on the wall in Europe with tens of thousands of the things sitting on docks, unwanted. Recent events in the EU may see more changes. Reckon we're going to be a dumping ground for a while though. Li Qiang is coming here for a reason.

Originally Posted by Tins

I think they all will. Why build things only a few want? Reckon the writing's on the wall in Europe with tens of thousands of the things sitting on docks, unwanted. Recent events in the EU may see more changes. Reckon we're going to be a dumping ground for a while though. Li Qiang is coming here for a reason.

Of course it wouldn't "Those stupid bloody Aussies have all that dusty bloody surplus Ground there & if they get a strop on I'll threaten another ban on stuff, Wine, .seafood etc.f Easy peasy i"

In Chinese of course.

Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

More LOLs from me. The guy on a LandRover forum likes his cars to have good resale.

Anyway leaving that aside - I do think while the price war is hotting up that we are going to see solid EV depreciation. Probably no worse than ice cars of similar prices - but it's going to seem bad after the pandemic boom and early EV resale prices. Lower operating costs will offset this (likely with change).

The thing is IMHO the EV price war is not just going to be about EV's. It's going to spread to ICE cars. Pretty soon people will have the choice of a second hand camry hybrid or an brand new (likely chinese) EV for similar prices. The EV won't have the range of the camry, but will beat it in all other respects. Lower costs for "fuel", less servicing etc.

I remember when Hyundai hit the Australian market. The resale of all secondhand cars dropped because you could buy a second hand car or a new Hyundai. IMHO it not going to be long until legacy manufacturers give up competing with the coming EV wave, and will try and hide in the corners of the markets that EV's aren't competitive in. Like the 4x4 ute market and large 4x4. And even then I expect some pain as EV manufacturers try to hit that market.

And it's happening even faster than I expected. I thought we would see this end of the decade but looks like it's going to be the next few years.

But I guess it's easy to ignore little old me. The thing is there are a lot of industry insiders who have seen what's happening in China and are just saying "We're f#$%ed".

From the head of Kia.

"Australia's new-car market is set to "change dramatically", with the influx of Chinese brands, putting legacy car makers at real risk of failure."

"It is going to change dramatically": Kia says Chinese brands like MG, Haval, Chery, BYD, GAC, Leapmotor and Geely will permanently reshape Australia's new-car market, putting legacy brands like Toyota, Ford, Hyundai, Nissan, Mitsubishi and Mazda at risk - Car News | CarsGuide

He has a good point, I wouldnt touch an electric car with a 10 foot barge pole. Who would be insane ... crazy enough to even dream of touching one of these coming off lease. I'm guessing the resale value will be less than zero. As I have no doubt when the fools in government realise how insanely dangerous these batteries are ... they will require the poor fool that buys the car coming off lease to be responsible for the safe disposal of the battery. Which is an impossibility.

Tesla Vehicle Batteries Degrade Under 65% of Rated Range After Only Three Years

I sure wouldn't touch a rapidly deteriorating battery car ever ... not for any reason. They would certainly not be allowed to be charged or stored anywhere near the house where the family is sleeping. In the (extremely rare) event of a battery fire, you have mere seconds to sprint for your life.