Thread: Electric vehicles. The problem no one wants to deal with.

Originally Posted by V8Ian

I thought road tax was primarily to protect and subsidise the various state owned railways.
The blockades of '79 set the ball rolling for its abolition, Queensland being the first state to repeal the laws, in a populist decision.
At the time I was still learning my craft, punting other people's body trucks around town.

Totally agree that we need a fairer method of tax collection.

Ian, RMC's came about because of the Hughes and Vale, and Antill Ranger decisions which determined that permit fees could not be charged on interstate freight. Section 92 0f the constitution. Governments still wanted to collect a tax so came up with RMC's. A couple of cunning lawyers worked out a way to subvert the tax which proved its death knell. Form a $2 company, get owner-drivers to "lease" and register their vehicles in the company name and address. When a large amount was owing then liquidate the $2 company which had no assets, start another and put the "leased" trucks into that company. Repeat as necessary. The governments gave up attempts to collect from bankrupt $2 companies.

One smart operator formed a company xxxxx Nominees S.A. in Vaduz, Leichtenstein which name was signwritten on the vehicles. The head office in an Australian state capital was then referred to as a management contractor. Any official chasing payments was referred to the Vaduz office which was a lawyer's office. Leichtensteinian law only applies to offences committed in the country and the lawyers are forbidden to discuss client's affairs outside Leich.

A Brisbane operator with between 15-20 six axle line haul rigs engaged in interstate haulage had them registered in the name of the 80+ y.o. patriarch. Inevitably when a couple of coppers came along with an arrest warrant he would ask someone to 'phone the TV channels as there are couple of big bun faced coppers here to arrest an 83 y.o. grandfather. He would then tell them to wait whilst he changed into decent clothes and got his suitcase. Once they contacted their Inspector who told the arrestee they really didn't want him, just the money. He replied that by now they should know they were never going to get the money, They were told by the Inspector to leave before the news cameras arrived.

I once read about a solicitor who had over 100 $2, interstate transport companies' head offices registered to his small, single room office in Bordertown.

Do you remember Road Maintenance Contributions?

Amazing, they can call it all the different titles they like (Contribution, reeks of Al Capone & his Stand over mobsters) Levy we were told, was supposed to be a once only payment such as SA's Emergency Services Levy ESL. but no, it goes on year after year after year even after the EMs have got all their new uptodate Vehicles, Equipment & Safety gear.

Call it any other name it is still a TAX.

It apparently rakes in Millions & I bet it now goes into General Revenue for Political Junkets etc.

Just Sayin'

The last few posts on the history of attempting to tax road users shows how the fuel excise is a relatively easy and simple tax. A review of this history suggest some of the complications likely to arise with any proposals to replace it with something else.

The problem is not as simple as it sounds!

And worth remembering that there is no such thing as a "fair" tax - what is "fair" depends on who is looking at it!

There are only two factors a tax expert will consider:-

1. How efficient is it - that is, how cheap is it to collect, and how difficult is it to avoid?

2. Is it politically possible?

All an economist is interested in is:-

Will it distort economic activity?

Note that none of these have anything mention of how fair or equitable it is.

Originally Posted by jonesfam

Getting back to the matter at hand?
A road usage fee/tax would be unfair to someone like me.
I live in a remote place, just for SWMBO to do the X-mas shopping is a 6-7 hour, 400km drive.
We drive to Mt Isa or Normanton for all sorts of reasons all of the time - do the banking, medical reasons, meetings, get urgently required equipment & so on.
So, for the majority to go to the computer shop it's what? Maybe 20k? For us its 400k + a motel room!
I don't see how a Km tax or road usage tax can be fair & equitible?
Please enlighten me if you can.
BTW I ain't moving to no City!!
Jonesfam

Surely you're compensating by the lower remote area tax rebate?

Originally Posted by V8Ian

I once read about a solicitor who had over 100 $2, interstate transport companies' head offices registered to his small, single room office in Bordertown.

The biggest operation I can recall was in Dobson Drive, Pooraka.

Originally Posted by SpudHeadTed

Firstly what I post is up to me. Since when does someone have the right to tell someone else what to post?!

But I’ll take your bait because you’re obviously interested, or is that annoyed? by what I post.

This whole thread is relevant to Land Rovers and all fossil fuel powered vehicles.

As you know I’ve contributed many posts in the Defender 663 thread, but got tired of the circuitous discussion about a vehicle no one’s driven yet. The majority of other threads, while very interesting are also very repetitive, so not much need to post there so far.

This thread is more balanced and very interesting IMO.

Hope your having a great day Tombie.

PS: your political and environmental views are abundantly clear too.

Righto.... line cast...

I didn’t tell you WHAT you could post, I asked a question as to when you were likely to post a LR related one. That would be a question.

Let’s consider L663. If you’re committed to an environmentally better world you can save emissions by keeping your current vehicle - and not removing the CAT as you posted you plan to! By not purchasing another vehicle all the emissions involved in its creation are avoided and would offset what your Defender makes.

And if you can accurately ascertain my political and environmental views from my posts you’re some kind of miracle worker. I have what can be left/right and middle of the road views on political topics - you complained of the unfair nature of Democracy- well 50%+1 as pointed out is a majority. Not some 70% figure you’re proposing. Don’t like how your area landed in a Democracy- you can always vote with your feet.

My environmental views are more wary skepticism. Not denial. I’m certainly not a hypocrite though. My home is Solar and Water self sustained, highly insulated, minimal energy consumption (we use less than the average single person by about 20%). I work in the Mining Industry and part of my scope is Environmental, I am accountable for my Ticket and it’s environmental impact and compliance.

What we need to do is reduce emissions and then balance the remaining emissions with ecosystems that can absorb them. How is the big question.

I’ve had a ****ing brilliant day! Thanks.
Went for a walk along the foreshore.
Spent a few hours working on my old Motorcycle.
Upgraded the Campers Solar array.
And prepared some more of our yard ready for planting.

I hope your day was equally enjoyable in whatever way you chose to spend it. And may you find the tranquility you seek.

Originally Posted by jonesfam

Getting back to the matter at hand?
A road usage fee/tax would be unfair to someone like me.
I live in a remote place, just for SWMBO to do the X-mas shopping is a 6-7 hour, 400km drive.
We drive to Mt Isa or Normanton for all sorts of reasons all of the time - do the banking, medical reasons, meetings, get urgently required equipment & so on.
So, for the majority to go to the computer shop it's what? Maybe 20k? For us its 400k + a motel room!
I don't see how a Km tax or road usage tax can be fair & equitible?
Please enlighten me if you can.
BTW I ain't moving to no City!!
Jonesfam

Yes, it always amazes me, that pollies think people get in and drive their cars around just to be annoying!