Which is better Off Road a D3/4 or a late model Defender? ... Puma 110

[MrLandy]

Cheers Terry, each to their own, simply my opinion and all in the spirit of the comparison you initiated.
- Why will I stick with 16's on my Defender? Because theyre stock, perfect size IMO and you can get excellent HD tyres of any brand for them anywhere.
- Why wouldn't I buy a D4? Way too expensive, no base model, I don't want a luxury car with carpets and they're not built for purpose as long term HD off bitumen vehicles IMO.
Result: no one has convinced me that D4's are better than Defenders off road.

Best wishes to all.

PS: Contrary to your OP, I would suggest that the cafe latte set are the flat earthers, whatever they drive. 😎

[ozscott]

Its funny. I struggle to recall more than 1 Defender i have seen without the excellent 16 inch stockers on when I have been off road and I have seen a lot of defenders. The 16's are strong and hold the bead like the proverbial to a sock. Sometimes you see them in magazines with smaller rims but i wonder how much of that is just for looks. If I didn't want to spring 3 large for 18 inch wheels the fist thing i would do with a D4 with 19's is go one size wider to gain a smidge more height. That video of the bite really emphasis that 19's are not a problem for serious offroading miles from anywhere as long as they are not on the vehicle (in the shed is fine).

Cheers

Cheers

[DiscoSteve]

The reason D4's are specced with 19" wheels = low profile tyres is simple. They are designed primarily for on road use. 90% of D4 owners will never take them off road. The fact that traditional 16" wheels are not able to be fitted is a ridiculous design flaw, agreed. But it does make it very clear what D4's are primarily designed for / what the Land Rover (Road Rover) target market is now. With the end of Defender there is now no purpose built off-road vehicle in the Land Rover range. It makes a total farce of the green oval badge IMO.

Ok so I've only skimmed the 1st few and last few pages (76!!!!). I think we all get too lost in our own little versions of our "perfect world"!
In a society more and more over run by rules and regulations and folks wanting more and more and more then limits are going to be hit.
Yep 19 inch is not ideal but since we all want more and more power then the law makers are going to require bigger brakes yes?
Everything is a compromise and I think the disco is a bloody good one (of course apart from my whining about God and hard seats).
Stock standard it will get you places nearly all other stock 4wds will struggle with but if you really need the insane off-road machine then buy a lesser marque and spend up modifying it.
Then there's the notion that the Disco is more easily and undesirably scratched, well it seems to get any modern vehicle to off-road specs you are spending 90k+ so is a scratch or two on a disco really much cause for concern?
I'm new to the Disco can't Ming from sportier cars and yes I could complain that it doesn't handle on road like an X5 or that I will shy away from deep crossings or huge ruts that a hi rise lifted vehicle would tackle with ease but in 95% of all our realities this car will get us 99% of the places we want to go in comfort.
Really the other 5% of people or 1% of places will require a highly customised vehicle no matter what the brand or model.

[shanegtr]

The reason D4's are specced with 19" wheels = low profile tyres is simple. They are designed primarily for on road use. 90% of D4 owners will never take them off road. The fact that traditional 16" wheels are not able to be fitted is a ridiculous design flaw, agreed. But it does make it very clear what D4's are primarily designed for / what the Land Rover (Road Rover) target market is now. With the end of Defender there is now no purpose built off-road vehicle in the Land Rover range. It makes a total farce of the green oval badge IMO.
Im going off topic here, but the vast majority of 4wds from all the manufactures makes a total farce of 4wds in general, they are all going to more road based designs IMHO, just look at the current crop of duel cab utes for example - years ago they where work/commercials now most would be lucky to get the ute tray bed paint scratched!
Really once the defender, 70 series landcruiser and the old patrol finally all leave the showroom floors theres really not much left that you could consider is more off road biased in design (If live axles are your thing then your left with the Jeep Wrangler!)

[MrLandy]

Im going off topic here, but the vast majority of 4wds from all the manufactures makes a total farce of 4wds in general, they are all going to more road based designs IMHO, just look at the current crop of duel cab utes for example - years ago they where work/commercials now most would be lucky to get the ute tray bed paint scratched!
Really once the defender, 70 series landcruiser and the old patrol finally all leave the showroom floors theres really not much left that you could consider is more off road biased in design (If live axles are your thing then your left with the Jeep Wrangler!)

Too true Shane, too true.

[Stuart02]

- Why wouldn't I buy a D4? Way too expensive, no base model, I don't want a luxury car with carpets and they're not built for purpose as long term HD off bitumen vehicles IMO.


Haha. The idea of a luxury car being defined as having carpet genuinely made me smile. Love it. Thank you :)

[PAT303]

Um,I better go out and remove the carpets from Tracey's defender,I didn't realise they make it not fit for purpose. Pat

[LandyAndy]

Um,I better go out and remove the carpets from Tracey's defender,I didn't realise they make it not fit for purpose. Pat

WHAT,carpet in a defender:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
Gees I hope its good quality marine carpet,with the dust and water leaks it will rot in no time.
Andrew

[PAT303]

In regards to LR fitting 19'' rims to their vehicles,LR fitted them because they needed clearance for the larger brakes they needed to pass the European regulations.In Europe they have brake tests that vehicles must pass,the test involves braking from 60-80-100 km/hr to a dead stop,one after the other without giving the brakes time to cool,to pass a 2T vehicle needs big brakes.Regulations are pushing vehicle designs,not manufacturers. Pat

[LandyAndy]

In regards to LR fitting 19'' rims to their vehicles,LR fitted them because they needed clearance for the larger brakes they needed to pass the European regulations.In Europe they have brake tests that vehicles must pass,the test involves braking from 60-80-100 km/hr to a dead stop,one after the other without giving the brakes time to cool,to pass a 2T vehicle needs big brakes.Regulations are pushing vehicle designs,not manufacturers. Pat

Having to twice use my D4 brakes in an emergency,once to avoid a head on,the other was an emu,there is no way I would be downsizing my brakes.In the near miss head on there is no way my D2 would have stopped in time,I doubt or Territory would have either,and that has the GT spec front discs,no where near as strong as the D4s brakes.
Andrew

[PAT303]

WHAT,carpet in a defender:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
Gees I hope its good quality marine carpet,with the dust and water leaks it will rot in no time.
Andrew

Leak,what leak,oh don't tell me,your cousins uncles cattle dog had a series 2 in 1965 and it leaked :o,bloody disco drivers,you sound like toybota drivers more and more every day :p. Pat

[PAT303]

Having to twice use my D4 brakes in an emergency,once to avoid a head on,the other was an emu,there is no way I would be downsizing my brakes.In the near miss head on there is no way my D2 would have stopped in time,I doubt or Territory would have either,and that has the GT spec front discs,no where near as strong as the D4s brakes.
Andrew

Same here,when we had the L322 we had a wobbly pull out and stop right in front of us just outside Pt Headland,I braked so hard the dump valves for the front struts activated,if I was in a cruiser or patrol we would have had it. Pat

[chuck]

Pat

They don't fit those brakes as a world standard.
Some countries still get 18" wheels in base model D4's.

It is also possible they could have kept the old rotor size and improve the quality of the rotors & callipers, but I guess they went the cheapest option & one that limited tyre sizes which if cynical probably limits warranty claims.

[MrLandy]

:) fit for purpose for one, clearly not fit for purpose for another.

Delicious homemade pappardelle with garlic pork sausage, home grown basil and grana padano tonight.

[MrLandy]

Pat

They don't fit those brakes as a world standard.
Some countries still get 18" wheels in base model D4's.

It is also possible they could have kept the old rotor size and improve the quality of the rotors & callipers, but I guess they went the cheapest option & one that limited tyre sizes which if cynical probably limits warranty claims.

What ?!? Those big red Brembo's are just for looks?!? :eek:

[LandyAndy]

What ?!? Those big red Bembo's are just for looks?!? :eek:

Not fitted to D4s.
Andrew

[AndyG]

That's cause certain folks are not grasping the details real well ... even after a 1000 posts ..... so I'm talking REAL SLOW ;)

Post #700, I see a pattern of 30% exaggeration :D rather than the 25% droll Defender understatement;)

[TerryO]

Post #700, I see a pattern of 30% exaggeration :D rather than the 25% droll Defender understatement;)


Have to agree Andy, Disco owners are inclined to 30% exaggeration about how good Disco's are, whereas Defender owners are 25% inclined to understate how really bad Defenders are.

Read into that what ever you like.


... ;)

[MrLandy]

Not fitted to D4s.
Andrew

No kidding brother. :p Oh sweet Irony, my only salvation in this thread.

[scarry]

Not fitted to D4s.
Andrew

Didn't some of the V8's have them?

Off topic a bit,did the 3.0l TDV6,520nm, only come with 8 speed box or did the first ones have the 6 speed?

One of my brothers has been looking at them 2nd hand.

[LandyAndy]

Have to agree Andy, Disco owners are inclined to 30% exaggeration about how good Disco's are, whereas Defender owners are 25% inclined to understate how really bad Defenders are.

Read into that what ever you like.


... ;)

OUCH.
Andrew

[MrLandy]

Post #700, I see a pattern of 30% exaggeration :D rather than the 25% droll Defender understatement;)

:Rolling: nice AG.

[TerryO]

Our V8 D4 doesn't have Brembo's and the brakes are bloody good. Having said that the brakes on the D3 are bloody good as well.

[LandyAndy]

Didn't some of the V8's have them?

Off topic a bit,did the 3.0l TDV6,520nm, only come with 8 speed box or did the first ones have the 6 speed?

One of my brothers has been looking at them 2nd hand.

Supercharged V8 RRS ????
Andrew

[LandyAndy]

Didn't some of the V8's have them?

Off topic a bit,did the 3.0l TDV6,520nm, only come with 8 speed box or did the first ones have the 6 speed?

One of my brothers has been looking at them 2nd hand.

The later D4's are TDV6 and SDV6 both are 600nm the KW are different,both 8 speed.
There were early 3.0lts with a 6 speed,they also should be 600nm I expect.Is the 520nm a 2.7????
Andrew

[rick130]

Our V8 D4 doesn't have Brembo's and the brakes are bloody good. Having said that the brakes on the D3 are bloody good as well.


Have AP calipers, slotted Brembo discs and stainless braided lines on the Deefer. :D

[scarry]

The later D4's are TDV6 and SDV6 both are 600nm the KW are different,both 8 speed.
There were early 3.0lts with a 6 speed,they also should be 600nm I expect.Is the 520nm a 2.7????
Andrew

Pretty sure yours is the 520nm,TDV6;)It replaced the 2.7.
The 2.7 us poorer people have is 440nm

But it does have proper off road boots:D

Only slightly more torque than a Puma,heavier,and lots is lost in the auto,so it would struggle to keep up with one,but don't tell them;)

:wasntme:

[LandyAndy]

I know a young bloke has a Senator dunnydoore.Needed new rotors/pads all round.They are Brembo and 3 to 4 times the cost of normal dunnydoore V8 brakes.Not a happy chappy.
Andrew

[scarry]

Have AP calipers, slotted Brembo discs and stainless braided lines on the Deefer. :D

Is that so you can race around and get more jobs done in a day?:p:D

[rar110]

I thought the bigger brakes exceeded Euro requirements, and were for on road performance and more effective terrain response.

The L322 has Brembos but not the flash red ones.

[LandyAndy]

Pretty sure yours is the 520nm,TDV6;)It replaced the 2.7.
The 2.7 us poorer people have is 440nm

But it does have proper off road boots:D

Only slightly more torque than a Puma,heavier,and lots is lost in the auto,so it would struggle to keep up with one,but don't tell them;)

:wasntme:

You may be correct,must chip it its not strong enough:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D.
No need for a chip,I assure you.
Andrew

[MrLandy]

Oh good, the Disco pages are back on Disco business. No more pre-emptive Defender bagging. Cheers fellas, it's been fun. Ciao

[LandyAndy]

Depending on the year and model HSV the brakes can be very good, our now three year old Senator will outbrake the D4, but surprisingly not by that much.

Excelleration from a standing start, well that is another story.
His has a 300 badge on the back,dont know much about them.
Andrew

[LandyAndy]

Oh good, the Disco pages are back on Disco business. No more pre-emptive Defender bagging. Cheers fellas, it's been fun. Ciao

Going somewhere????
Off to the doctors to get the sores on the knuckles dressed:):):):):):):)
Andrew

[Meken]

The later D4's are TDV6 and SDV6 both are 600nm the KW are different,both 8 speed.

There were early 3.0lts with a 6 speed,they also should be 600nm I expect.Is the 520nm a 2.7????

Andrew


Did you mean both the later td & sd are 3L ?

The 3.0 TDV6 is 520Nm the SDV6 is 600nm

Earlier the 2.7 was under 500 & 3.0 twin turbo was 600nm

Not sure of the exact year model when the tdv6 changed from 2.7 to 3.0l

[scarry]

Did you mean both the later td & sd are 3L ?

The 3.0 TDV6 is 520Nm the SDV6 is 600nm

Earlier the 2.7 was 500ish & 3.0 twin turbo was 600nm

Not sure of the exact year model when the tdv6 changed from 2.7 to 3.0l

Late MY 12.

But did the first ones have the 6 or 8 speed auto?

[Meken]

[/COLOR]



Late MY 12.



But did the first ones have the 6 or 8 speed auto?


When I was searching there were def 3l tdv6 with 6 speed autos - I think 8 cogs came in sometime 2013

[Meken]

Oh hang on how many cogs in a defender box?

[scarry]

Oh hang on how many cogs in a defender box?

None moving,they are all lying in the bottom.:D

[LandyAndy]

I need to consult my book of words that came with the D4.Mine is a MY 2014 TDV6 8 speed.I thought it listed both TDV6 and SDV6 as 600nm.I COULD BE WRONG.
Andrew

[scarry]

You cant be wrong,Disco drivers are never wrong.

Anyway,it will still have enough get up and go to leave a chipped Deefer with big brakes well behind in its dust:D

Because even a poverty pack 2.7 can do that easy,don't ask me how i know.And thats anywhere,on the black top,up a sand dune...and on it goes.:D

[LandyAndy]

You cant be wrong,Disco drivers are never wrong.

Anyway,it will still have enough get up and go to leave a chipped Deefer with big brakes well behind in its dust:D

Because even a poverty pack 2.7 can do that easy,don't ask me how i know.And thats anywhere,on the black top,up a sand dune...and on it goes.:D

They will get sick of it soon,we reign supreme:):):):):):):):):):):)
Andrew

[Meken]

You cant be wrong,Disco drivers are never wrong.

Anyway,it will still have enough get up and go to leave a chipped Deefer with big brakes well behind in its dust:D

Because even a poverty pack 2.7 can do that easy,don't ask me how i know.And thats anywhere,on the black top,up a sand dune...and on it goes.:D


It's only 80Nm - say it quickly Andy and it won't hurt [emoji7]

[LandyAndy]

It's only 80Nm - say it quickly Andy and it won't hurt [emoji7]

Was towing my camper trailer weighing around 1.5T recently.Had an ex D2 V8 owner who is awaiting a new deefer thats "on the ocean" at the moment in the passenger seat.Had the tranny in sport as reccomended for towing.We came up to a hilux towing a campertrailer up a steep hill at 60kmh.I floored it to show off and get around him,ex D2 V8 commented his D2 wouldnt go like that without the camper trailer:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
Andrew

[Meken]

Was towing my camper trailer weighing around 1.5T recently.Had an ex D2 V8 owner who is awaiting a new deefer thats "on the ocean" at the moment in the passenger seat.Had the tranny in sport as reccomended for towing.We came up to a hilux towing a campertrailer up a steep hill at 60kmh.I floored it to show off and get around him,ex D2 V8 commented his D2 wouldnt go like that without the camper trailer:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

Andrew


I keep the rear view camera on while towing our campervan... So I remember it's there [emoji13]

[SBD4]

LTR/KW/NM/SPEED

_____|______MY10_____|_______MY11____|______MY12__ ___|______MY13_____
TDV6 | 2.7/140/440/6 | 2.7/140/440/6 | 2.7/140/440/6 | 3.0/155/520/8
SDV6*| 3.0/180/600/6 | 3.0/180/600/6 | 3.0/180/600/6 | 3.0/183/600/8

*Early SDV6 (my10/11) were badged as "TDV6 3.0"

My understanding is the 3.0ltr TDV6 and 8 speed were introduced together for MY13.

[PAT303]

Have AP calipers, slotted Brembo discs and stainless braided lines on the Deefer. :D

As sharp as a rat with a gold tooth :p. Pat

[TerryO]

Well our friends over in the Defender section have been keeping themselves busy. In between discussing remedies for breaking diff's, cracked chassis, weak axles, how many bags of goat poo they can carry in a 110 or the need to replace their drive shafts with expensive double carbon units if they give their Defenders a very basic 40 mm suspension lift, that so many feel the need to do, they have come up with several versions of the Disco t-shirt.

Attached is one of the versions of the t-shirt that has brightened their otherwise dreary days discussing repeatedly at great length how many Defender owners bothered to wave back at them or not when last out driving.

[ozscott]

Landy Andy he just needed the 5 speed manual and the high comp 4.6....would have been a lot cheaper than a new vehicle too.

Cheers

[rick130]

Well our friends over in the Defender section have been keeping themselves busy. In between discussing remedies for breaking diff's, cracked chassis, weak axles, how many bags of goat poo they can carry in a 110 or the need to replace their drive shafts with expensive double carbon units if they give their Defenders a 40 mm suspension lift that so many feel the need to do, they have come up with several versions of the Disco t-shirt.

Attached is one of the versions of the Disco t-shirt that has brighten their otherwise dreary days discussing how many Defender owners bothered to wave back at them or not when last out driving.
Pretty much sums it up. [emoji1]

[frantic]

Let's list what we've learnt so far. ;)
To match, or in their opinion better a stock puma offroad a D4 needs:
3000 of wheels
2500-3500 of tyres
Suspension lift
Smaller brakes
Engineering report
And don't forget
A Heat gun to fit rubber. :D

It's totally not fair if a defender driver fits,
3000 of ashcroft
1500 of 35plus in tyres
500 wheels
Tom woods dc
Engineering
And uses a grinder to fit flares /offset rims.

[jonesy63]

(Yawn) :p

[PAT303]

Well our friends over in the Defender section have been keeping themselves busy. In between discussing remedies for breaking diff's, cracked chassis, weak axles, how many bags of goat poo they can carry in a 110 or the need to replace their drive shafts with expensive double carbon units if they give their Defenders a very basic 40 mm suspension lift, that so many feel the need to do, they have come up with several versions of the Disco t-shirt.

Attached is one of the versions of the t-shirt that has brightened their otherwise dreary days discussing repeatedly at great length how many Defender owners bothered to wave back at them or not when last out driving.

Kinda like the Disco owners with EAS faults,dash warning lights,limp mode,turbo issue's,rubber band tyres :wasntme: :p. Pat

[frantic]

Kinda like the Disco owners with EAS faults,dash warning lights,limp mode,turbo issue's,rubber band tyres :wasntme: :p. Pat
You forgot the instructional video of how to replace a cooked 2.7 tdv6 engine of a "prestiege vehicle" with the almost identical, yet slightly better designed engine from a commoners ford territory!:D And how to do it without removing the entire body from the chassis.

[ozscott]

Come on boys. The D/d4 guys have made it clear before that the new shapes are much more reliable and have less rattles than anything based on a series LR or RRC (Deefer, D2 etc)...you guys clearly dont frequent this page often enough.

......







(Just dont mention the war..ie the fact that when the gearbox (inevitably) goes it costs more to replace than an entire 4.0 or 4.6 V8, that suspension BUSHES cost could fund new suspension in an older shape several times over or that if the turbo/s go or the TD spins a bearing/siezes the costs of effecting repairs would buy and sell 2 older vehicles complete to effect a fix....because mention those things and, well, you would be hitting below the belt :) ).

Cheers

[TerryO]

Let's list what we've learnt so far. ;)
To match, or in their opinion better a stock puma offroad a D4 needs:
3000 of wheels
2500-3500 of tyres
Suspension lift
Smaller brakes
Engineering report
And don't forget
A Heat gun to fit rubber. :D

It's totally not fair if a defender driver fits,
3000 of ashcroft
1500 of 35plus in tyres
500 wheels
Tom woods dc
Engineering
And uses a grinder to fit flares /offset rims.


A D4 doesn't need much at all, but if you think having a off road comparison would truly show each vehicles capability's with one of them on highway tyres then I guess you don't want a true comparison at all.

To match, or in their opinion better a stock puma offroad a D4 needs:

3000 of wheels ................. Yes to buy Gordon's 18's
2500-3500 of tyres ............. Nope, plenty of good off road 18" tyres for much less
Suspension lift ................... Nope, in case you had not noticed it comes std.
Smaller brakes .................. Nope, Gordon's 18's fit std brakes
Engineering report .............. Nope, Gordon's wheels don't need it.
And don't forget
A Heat gun to fit rubber. :D .. God only knows what your on about. ...;)


So me old mate even after all of this discussion you guys still don't have any clue how a late model Disco works do you?

[PAT303]

I think defenders look good on 18's,I wish the sawtooths on the X-Tec were that size. Pat

[komaterpillar]

*OP starts a thread with a very controversial subject matter
*sooks and berates other posters who voice their opinion + back it up with evidence, if this opinion or evidence differs from his own
*wondering why I renewed my subscription a couple of days ago

[1nando]

I cant believe this thread is still banging on.
Points have been made for and against for each vehicle. No one will win this debate simply becuase each owner is unwilling to admit their vehcile is inferior in some way, we all love our landy..i get it.

In saying that, when i go 4wding with my mates i feel pretty good in my defender. Follows my mates cruisers and patrols effortlessly and has impressed all of them. They used to joke about it and give it to me when i first bought it, but after a few trips to watagans, lithgow, mt walker, ourimbah etc it has earned all their respect. Its no longer a joke, now they say "that things a weapon" and if i struggle on a track they all start to worry. They dont worry because i own the best 4wd in the world (it is in my eyes:)) but becuase its an excellent setup.

I love my puma and the d4 guys love their rig just as much. Ive never owned a disco, i only see them everywhere doing the school run in the eastern suburbs of sydney and as a result dont consider them a serious off road vehicle. In saying that some are willing to pay 80k plus and put them on the rough stuff with no compromise and im sure its goes ok, it is a land rover at the end of the day.

My opinion will always be my opinion and its favoured to my puma, the d4 guys feel the same about their vehicles ......agree to disagree and lets orgainse a 4wd day later in the year as a bit of fun: d4s vs pumas

[AndyG]

Meanwhile my Defender is in Bne and I'm here with a 70 series Lc, talk about ****ed off :(.

[frantic]

A D4 doesn't need much at all, but if you think having a off road comparison would truly show each vehicles capability's with one of them on highway tyres then I guess you don't want a true comparison at all.
No, but your post increased D4 tyre size by 10%. Then you disallow a defender from doing the same which makes it an unfair comparison.
To match, or in their opinion better a stock puma offroad a D4 needs:

3000 of wheels ................. Yes to buy Gordon's 18's
2500-3500 of tyres ............. Nope, plenty of good off road 18" tyres for much less
Suspension lift ................... Nope, in case you had not noticed it comes std.
Smaller brakes .................. Nope, Gordon's 18's fit std brakes problem is in another of YOUR posts you speak of "several owners " who have swapped their larger D4 callipers to fit smaller D3 ones and 17 inch wheels,,,, didn't you? That would by your own admission requirements an???:D
Engineering report .............. Nope, Gordon's wheels don't need it.
And don't forget
A Heat gun to fit rubber. :D .. God only knows what your on about. ...
To get disco 3/4 to run at a higher height on the air suspension you can fit a bit that fools the system, but I know Nada about that tomfoolery... More centre clearance, but less articulation.
If you fit the plus 10% tyres to a D4 they rub on plastic, which other D3/4 owners have reshaped with a heat gun.
To fit 10% larger tyres in nsw you need an engineer report.
That has zip to do with how a D4 works.;)

[LandyAndy]

To get disco 3/4 to run at a higher height on the air suspension you can fit a bit that fools the system, but I know Nada about that tomfoolery... More centre clearance, but less articulation.
If you fit the plus 10% tyres to a D4 they rub on plastic, which other D3/4 owners have reshaped with a heat gun.
To fit 10% larger tyres in nsw you need an engineer report.
That has zip to do with how a D4 works.;)

99% of the posts in this thread have been tounge in cheek taking the **** out of each side.
Why are you posting on **** you admit to knowing Nada about?????
Andrew

[Stuart02]

Ive never owned a disco, i only see them everywhere doing the school run in the eastern suburbs of sydney and as a result dont consider them a serious off road vehicle.

Sooooo a serious off road vehicle can't be good at anything else. The Disco starts to look a whole lot better price proposition if you don't need a /whole other vehicle/ for everything else!!!

[SimmAus]

Sooooo a serious off road vehicle can't be good at anything else. The Disco starts to look a whole lot better price proposition if you don't need a /whole other vehicle/ for everything else!!!

X 2

[Stuart02]

*OP starts a thread with a very controversial subject matter
*sooks and berates other posters who voice their opinion + back it up with evidence, if this opinion or evidence differs from his own
*wondering why I renewed my subscription a couple of days ago

It's good fun though - I've seriously never laughed so much at a thread on this forum!

[dullbird]

99% of the posts in this thread have been tounge in cheek taking the **** out of each side.

Why are you posting on **** you admit to knowing Nada about?????

Andrew


So is what he just wrote not correct?

[strangy]

.... So me old mate even after all of this discussion you guys still don't have any clue how a late model Disco works do you?
I must admit I too am confounded as to the workings of a Disco.
I read somewhere (Wikipedia I think) that programmers of the software for the Disco had integrated "Biometric Recognition" capabilities into the system.
This allowed the vehicle to determine if the person attempting to use it was the lawful/correct owner before allowing the vehicle to start and also recalled typically driven routes, phone numbers driver preferences etc.

LR found the system worked very well but was forced to turn off a number of the biometric features following complaints from a small few owners.
Investigations found that those who had complained had been correctly scanned and confirmed as the rightful owner, however, driver preferences would only provide maps to poo farms, hay sheds and constantly provided notifications for nearby beard conventions.

The majority of vehicle owners had no complaints, with driver preferences reliably defaulting to maps for school runs, hairdressers, cafes, and bingo halls.
Notifications and full voice assisted instructions for nearby fanta pants conventions were well received.

Only 2 actual faults with the system were genuinely found through diagnostics download which were the reset in the settings menu
One owner was unable to start the vehicle until at least 3 or more inches of facial hair were detected. Being a woman made this all the more difficult.
The other incident was determined to be owner error - the owner was attempting to wear denim jeans which the vehicle default setting allowed on the first instance and intuitively provided maps/directions to a boutique.
On the second attempt the owner was unable to operate the vehicle until such time as tight pastel chinos were donned.

[gghaggis]

To get disco 3/4 to run at a higher height on the air suspension you can fit a bit that fools the system, but I know Nada about that tomfoolery... More centre clearance, but less articulation.
If you fit the plus 10% tyres to a D4 they rub on plastic, which other D3/4 owners have reshaped with a heat gun.
To fit 10% larger tyres in nsw you need an engineer report.
That has zip to do with how a D4 works.;)

No, the OP said the D4 running under 32". That's nowhere near 10%. The closest equivalent would be a D4 on 285/60R18 and a Defender on 33's. No report required for either.

Cheers

Gordon

[AndyG]

Land Rover Defender (off-) road trip: Birmingham to Kabul (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/features/land-rover-defender-off-road-trip-birmingham-to-kabul)

Apart from the Journo getting it wrong again in the title, when you read this do you think:
OH my God i wish i could do that, or
OH my God no carpet or sat nav.

That's what separates Defender buyers and Disco buyers. And may you all fight the good fight against the heathen Asian things. ;)

[TerryO]

I must admit I too am confounded as to the workings of a Disco.

Only 2 actual faults with the system were genuinely found through diagnostics download which were the reset in the settings menu
One owner was unable to start the vehicle until at least 3 or more inches of facial hair were detected. Being a woman made this all the more difficult.
The other incident was determined to be owner error - the owner was attempting to wear denim jeans which the vehicle default setting allowed on the first instance and intuitively provided maps/directions to a boutique.
On the second attempt the owner was unable to operate the vehicle until such time as tight pastel chinos were donned.


The only Aulro member, and I use the term loosely, that wears pastel chinos is Rick130. ... :eek:

So is the number one Defender defender a closest wannabe D4 owner? ... after reading this I suspect so. ... :angel:

[DiscoMick]

Good yarn - I love those types of stories.

[frantic]

No, the OP said the D4 running under 32". That's nowhere near 10%. The closest equivalent would be a D4 on 285/60R18 and a Defender on 33's. No report required for either.

Cheers

Gordon

Now if 8.5-9% is nowhere near 10, it's a funny universe.;)
I'm just going by what bfg quote for sizes, and using those to go from a stock 255/55 r18 , 737mm to a 285/60r18 , 799mm is around 8,5%.on tirerack it's 29 inch to 31.5in in the old money, 2.5 in larger, again 8,5%. But maybe their both wrong.:D
So at that %%% you need an engineers cert in NSW. Which is where the ops based.:eek:
Your right about the defender though , as legally they can go 34.??inches Before the 7% mark is breached. :D

P.s saying I know nada , but having a shot about loosing articulation is having a joke and poke.:twisted:

[Disco-tastic]

Now if 8.5-9% is nowhere near 10, it's a funny universe.;)
I'm just going by what bfg quote for sizes, and using those to go from a stock 255/55 r18 , 737mm to a 285/60r18 , 799mm is around 8,5%.on tirerack it's 29 inch to 31.5in in the old money, 2.5 in larger, again 8,5%. But maybe their both wrong.:D
So at that %%% you need an engineers cert in NSW. Which is where the ops based.:eek:
Your right about the defender though , as legally they can go 34.??inches Before the 7% mark is breached. :D

P.s saying I know nada , but having a shot about loosing articulation is having a joke and poke.:twisted:

Standard size on my D3 is 255/60/R18 which is 763mm. 799mm is less than 5% larger.

Hehe. Love this thread. All this fist shaking is entertaining. Thankfully no punches have been thrown :p

Cheers

Dan

[gghaggis]

Now if 8.5-9% is nowhere near 10, it's a funny universe.;)
I'm just going by what bfg quote for sizes, and using those to go from a stock 255/55 r18 , 737mm to a 285/60r18 , 799mm is around 8,5%.on tirerack it's 29 inch to 31.5in in the old money, 2.5 in larger, again 8,5%. But maybe their both wrong.:D
So at that %%% you need an engineers cert in NSW. Which is where the ops based.:eek:
Your right about the defender though , as legally they can go 34.??inches Before the 7% mark is breached. :D
:

It is a funny old world isn't it?

Stock on a D4 is 255/55R19 = 30.04". Add 4.5% to get to 285/60R18 (31.4")

Cheers,

Gordon

[PAT303]

My defender tyres are round and black,unless I have a flat and then they are only round at the top but still black :). Pat

[komaterpillar]

My defender tyres are round and black,unless I have a flat and then they are only round at the top but still black :). Pat

But how tall are they when flat? And whats that as a percentage? Maybe we could drive our defenders around with flat tyres to even the odds up and make it more "fair" so the discos can keep up....

[Stuart02]

to go from a stock 255/55 r18 , 737mm to a 285/60r18 , 799mm is around 8,5%.on tirerack it's 29 inch to 31.5in in the old money, 2.5 in larger, again 8,5%. But maybe their both wrong.:D ...

P.s saying I know nada , but having a shot about loosing articulation is having a joke and poke.:twisted:

255/55 r19, not r18.

As I understand it from tolerating lengthy Pajero forum threads, lifting independent suspension gains you some up and loses (hopefully nothing's actually loose) some down. No overall loss of articulation.

[TerryO]

It is a funny old world isn't it?

Stock on a D4 is 255/55R19 = 30.04". Add 4.5% to get to 285/60R18 (31.4")

Cheers,

Gordon


Come on Frantic lift your game mate, this is like shooting fish in a barrel. How many times now have I and others in reply to you said that a Disco comes standard with 30" tyres fitted, not 29's?

.... :p

[strangy]

The only Aulro member, and I use the term loosely, that wears pastel chinos is Rick130. ... :eek: So is the number one Defender defender a closest wannabe D4 owner? ... after reading this I suspect so. ... :angel:



105227

[Meken]

But how tall are they when flat? And whats that as a percentage? Maybe we could drive our defenders around with flat tyres to even the odds up and make it more "fair" so the discos can keep up....


Well now that's a good point - what diameter are the defender tyres when they are aired down for off-roading? ?

[scarry]

99% of the posts in this thread have been tounge in cheek taking the **** out of each side.
Why are you posting on **** you admit to knowing Nada about?????
Andrew

Fits in pretty well;)

Lots of that in this thread……....:D;):D:D

Makes for entertainig reading:p

[scarry]

Well now that's a good point - what diameter are the defender tyres when they are aired down for off-roading? ?

I thought they were that good off road,there was no need to air down.:angel:

So an irrelevant question:D

[Redback]

Well now that's a good point - what diameter are the defender tyres when they are aired down for off-roading? ?

Probably a larger diameter than the D4, if we are letting them both down to the same psi, as the D4 is heavier:)

[rick130]

The only Aulro member, and I use the term loosely, that wears pastel chinos is Rick130. ... :eek:

So is the number one Defender defender a closest wannabe D4 owner? ... after reading this I suspect so. ... :angel:


Terry they aren't pastel, they are bright red, Ok, redy pink red something, but they're bright ! :angel:

[LandyAndy]

Terry they aren't pastel, they are bright red, Ok, redy pink red something, but they're bright ! :angel:

And let me guess,you only wear them at a certain time of the month:wasntme::wasntme::wasntme::wasntme::wasntme:
:p:p:p:p:p:p
Andrew

[dullbird]

I believe he does lol

From memory its when the D3/4 yearly gathering is on

As they say get em together and they will sync up and cycle together....how else is he going to infiltrate if he doesn't fit in :p :D

[rick130]

And let me guess,you only wear them at a certain time of the month:wasntme::wasntme::wasntme::wasntme::wasntme:
:p:p:p:p:p:p
Andrew


Mate, if Lou/dullbird sees this you're on your own. :o

[rick130]

I believe he does lol

From memory its when the D3/4 yearly gathering is on

As they say get em together and they will sync up and cycle together....how else is he going to infiltrate if he doesn't fit in :p :D

:Rolling:

Touche :D

[BMKal]

And let me guess,you only wear them at a certain time of the month:wasntme::wasntme::wasntme::wasntme::wasntme:
:p:p:p:p:p:p
Andrew

Geeeez you're game - having a dig at another forum member's choice in style and colour of strides. :eek::eek::eek:

I guess it's a good thing I'm in Tassie and only have the iPad handy, so I can't post up that photo I have of you wearing your tight leather jeans. ;)

Oh well - at least yours are probably a better choice when it comes to wiping off spilled latte. :p:p:p

[LandyAndy]

Geeeez you're game - having a dig at another forum member's choice in style and colour of strides. :eek::eek::eek:

I guess it's a good thing I'm in Tassie and only have the iPad handy, so I can't post up that photo I have of you wearing your tight leather jeans. ;)

Oh well - at least yours are probably a better choice when it comes to wiping off spilled latte. :p:p:p

What are you bringing back for me Brian???
A tassie kangaroo skin mankini would be great.
Andrew

[ozscott]

I am glad this thread is now back to revealing what all LR drivers are...wierdos in off beat vehicles.

Cheers

[rick130]

I am glad this thread is now back to revealing what all LR drivers are...wierdos in off beat vehicles.

Cheers


I prefer the term 'eccentric' thanks Scott. ;)

Although Andrew is just weird.

A bloody mankini ! :eek:

[LandyAndy]

I prefer the term 'eccentric' thanks Scott. ;)

Although Andrew is just weird.

A bloody mankini ! :eek:

You havent seen all the other gear Brian buys me then:p:p:p:p:p
Hell of a nice bloke;);););););)
Andrew

[Nicky]

I'm happy being a weirdo in an off-beat vehicle, we feel sorry for the rest.

[Disco Muppet]

I've not had enough to drink for what I just read to be acceptable, and I've had a few tonight :p



Sent from my HTC One using AULRO mobile app

[BMKal]

What are you bringing back for me Brian???
A tassie kangaroo skin mankini would be great.
Andrew

Sorry - couldn't find any kangaroo skin mankinis. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/02/687.jpg

But we did manage to pick these up for you ........................

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/02/688.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Also managed to find a couple of Tassie Devil fabric badges. ;) SWMBO said that she will sew those onto the garments above, just below the Land Rover logo.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/02/692.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

I guess that the only qualification on me sending these to you though, would be that most people on here would probably request that you DON'T post any photos of yourself modelling them. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/02/693.jpg https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/02/694.jpg

[rick130]

I guess that the only qualification on me sending these to you though, would be that most people on here would probably request that you DON'T post any photos of yourself modelling them. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/02/693.jpg https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/02/694.jpg

Damned straight, although I do like the colours.... :angel:

[LandyAndy]

Onya Brian.
Andrew

[strangy]

Just because I am already a little disturbed.. Are these a pair of "thongs" or left and right cups for a "man bra"'dde02

[rick130]

Just because I am already a little disturbed.. Are these a pair of "thongs" or left and right cups for a "man bra"'dde02

:Rolling:

[AndyG]

Sorry - couldn't find any kangaroo skin mankinis. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/02/687.jpg

But we did manage to pick these up for you ........................

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/02/688.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Also managed to find a couple of Tassie Devil fabric badges. ;) SWMBO said that she will sew those onto the garments above, just below the Land Rover logo.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/02/692.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

I guess that the only qualification on me sending these to you though, would be that most people on here would probably request that you DON'T post any photos of yourself modelling them. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/02/693.jpg https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/02/694.jpg

I presume these come with the Disco Owners kit when you buy a new one. But where's the stilletos :wasntme:

[PAT303]

Damned straight, although I do like the colours.... :angel:

Rick,stop encouraging them or next thing we'll see will be a photo of one of them actually wearing them :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:. Pat

[LandyAndy]

Rick,stop encouraging them or next thing we'll see will be a photo of one of them actually wearing them :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:. Pat

Pat,you know you would like to see.Spewing he couldnt find any roo skin mankinis.
Andrew

[rick130]

Rick,stop encouraging them or next thing we'll see will be a photo of one of them actually wearing them :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:. Pat


No Pat they can't, it's a family friendly forum. There are rules about lewd and lascivious behaviour.

I mean they wouldn't dare, would they ? :eek:

[Tote]

Sorry - couldn't find any kangaroo skin mankinis. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/02/687.jpg

But we did manage to pick these up for you ........................

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/02/688.jpg (http://postimage.org/)





They must be the G4 ones, when I bought my Disco 3 the ones that I got were green

[TerryO]

I know this is slightly off topic regarding Mankini's and Chino's etc but I thought maybe it might be of some interest.

Rich provided me this link to a page on the D3-UK forum with a video of a very impressive D3 with 33" mud tyres that a bloke in Puerto Rico built.

Many of you may have seen this already but for those of you who have not its quite impressive what this guy has done to make these tyres fit along with plenty of other mods.

The video is of him playing in mud, which I guess is to be expected in a country where it rains all the time. In another thread he says that his D3 on 33's can go everywhere his mates modded Jeep on 35's does.

That is something for the Defender guys who reckon their vehicles should be allowed 33's or 35's and lockers to be fitted to compete with a D3/4 to think about I reckon.
Maybe after seeing this they might want 37's. ... ;)


DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - 33" mud tires video! Have to see it (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic56336.html)

[Celtoid]

Rich provided me this link to a page on the D3-UK forum with a video of a very impressive D3 with 33" mud tyres that a bloke in Puerto Rico built.

Many of you may have seen this already but for those of you who have not its quite impressive what this guy has done to make these tyres fit along with plenty of other mods.

The video is of him playing in mud, which I guess is to be expected in a country where it rains all the time. In another thread he says that his D3 on 33's can go everywhere his mates modded Jeep on 35's does.

That is something for the Defender guys who reckon their vehicles should be allowed 33's or 35's and lockers to be fitted to compete with a D3/4 to think about I reckon.
Maybe after seeing this they might want 37's. ... ;)


DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - 33" mud tires video! Have to see it (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic56336.html)

Awesome Terry. Nice mud :-)

[DiscoMick]

It was good to watch, but I wonder if his progress was more aided by the fitting of mud tyres or by the fact they were 33s. Also, would a Defender on standard size muds have done as well? Hard to say.

[MrLandy]

Thanks great vid. ...Mud tyres, clearance, traction control and a skilled driver. Disco or Defender would be equal in that situation IMO. But doing this over more than the occasional weekend / over many years? I would prefer to be in a Defender.

[DiscoMick]

I certainly think the Defender would need less modding than the Disco to do that.

[roverrescue]

That video is a great explanation for why lockers are what makes a 4wd truly 4wd.
Obviously he got through each section once the traction control did its thang - but like an open diffed fourby whenever opposing wheels lost traction he was going nowhere till TC came in. Its hard to say but I think he drove all of the sections with no winching which is impressive.

Those conditions are what I would call a "wet season barra trip"... or come rescue me trips with a 2pm on a Friday phonecall from a mate in February. Bogged to his gills after a storm went through and turned the track to slop.

Im not sure how good the traction control on a tdci defender is but you are kidding yourself to think an open diffed defender would have driven through that - on any tyres. I know I would have got through but at a guess I think I would have needed to winch a few times.

Terry in the thread below old mate mentions
"The full car sliders sure made it easier on the deeper mud."

Am I guessing this means he has plate sliders under the entire vehicle (Dakar style)
if so this alone would be as beneficial as the tyre size increase. Thinking about it, a body slider would actually counter one of the biggest enemies of D3/4 and 200series (their excessive weight sinking in and sticktion in mud).

Solid axles in goop like that always hangup on the housings leading to winching. If you can make the underside a flat slider with wheels paddling like a turtle I can see huge benefits.

[DiscoMick]

The TDCI's TC is very good.
Agree sliders would also help a lot.
Add mud tyres and its a good package.

[ozscott]

My recollection of having looked last under a d3 was that they do have long plates of protection to slide on.

Cheers

[Disco Muppet]

Traction control in the puma is the same as the D2, Xtreme defender, etc

Sent from my HTC One using AULRO mobile app

[ozscott]

So very good and got rave reviews by people who were used to driving locked defenders but not as good as D3/4. There is a big improvement in the D3 and a finnessing in the D4.

Cheers

[TerryO]

That video is a great explanation for why lockers are what makes a 4wd truly 4wd.
Obviously he got through each section once the traction control did its thang - but like an open diffed fourby whenever opposing wheels lost traction he was going nowhere till TC came in. Its hard to say but I think he drove all of the sections with no winching which is impressive.

Those conditions are what I would call a "wet season barra trip"... or come rescue me trips with a 2pm on a Friday phonecall from a mate in February. Bogged to his gills after a storm went through and turned the track to slop.

Im not sure how good the traction control on a tdci defender is but you are kidding yourself to think an open diffed defender would have driven through that - on any tyres. I know I would have got through but at a guess I think I would have needed to winch a few times.

Terry in the thread below old mate mentions
"The full car sliders sure made it easier on the deeper mud."

Am I guessing this means he has plate sliders under the entire vehicle (Dakar style)
if so this alone would be as beneficial as the tyre size increase. Thinking about it, a body slider would actually counter one of the biggest enemies of D3/4 and 200series (their excessive weight sinking in and sticktion in mud).

Solid axles in goop like that always hangup on the housings leading to winching. If you can make the underside a flat slider with wheels paddling like a turtle I can see huge benefits.


Elsewhere he talked about fitting sliders on the suspension wishbones from memory. You used to be able to and possibly still can buy flat plates that protected the suspension, under the rear diff, Gearbox, drive shaft etc. Don't believe they were meant for sliding rather to stop rocks smashing everything.

with an ARB bar fitted it is just about completely flat all the way back to the auto, apart from the front suspension. Add in the gearbox plate and a compressor cover and there is not much under there to get caught on except the exhaust where it goes under the rear suspension.

If I remember right I don't think he had a e-diff, it didn't look like it when he lifted his rear wheel either. Which makes its progress in that slop pretty impressive.

Did he have to alter much, Yep he did. But alot less than one might think. His main concern in the end was the inner plastic wheel guards which he never explained how he fixed them to fit around everything that I could find.

He had to reroute the rear air conditioning lines and hammer a couple of inner guard body seams flat and the biggest change was cutting off a inch of chassis rail that sticks out for no obvious reason on either side under the firewall into the front wheel arch. He had to tie up a section of canbus cabling with a cable tie or two as well up under one of the front guards. I'm sure there were others things but none that spring to mind.

So all in all not such a big job and not really expensive at all parts wise either that I remember. Not sure if he used wheel spacers, maybe someone else might remember if he did. I would like to have seen him on a dry rocky steep track or two like most here play on, that would have been of more interest for me.

Anyway a impressive vehicle and his 2.6 tons of weight didn't seam to stop him in the mud either.

[scarry]

""Traction control in the puma is the same as the D2, Xtreme defender, etc""

Similar

Traction control was updated in the later Puma Defenders,but i can't remember what year it was changed,or how it was actually changed.
It was definitely sometime after MY09.

[roverrescue]

" would like to have seen him on a dry rocky steep track or two like most here play on, that would have been of more interest for me. "

Meh

You mean the stuff you drive on for 50km before getting to the floodplain ?

Horses for courses. I'm impressed. If only they made a disco ute... Wtf good is a wagon ?

S

[Meken]

Someone on here was banging on about us latte sipping pansies wouldn't want to take our discos out into the rough & tumble... Well there you go !

[ozscott]

It all brings us back to the new Deefer. LR say it will be the best offroader in their line up. Sounds great but perhaps that just means compared to what might in 2018 be a dumbed down (for offroad) D5....

Cheers

[TerryO]

Horses for courses. I'm impressed. If only they made a disco ute... Wtf good is a wagon ?

S


You mean you would like one of these? ... ;)

[TerryO]

Or one of these?

[LandyAndy]

Or one of these?

Ive been looking for that pick on my computer Terry,I took that pic at the BP roadhouse in town,it was brand spanking new heading for Albany.
Tray is too long for my liking.
Andrew

[LandyAndy]

I see Bunnings have a power improvement pellet for Defenders,it even is water resistant so you can store the product in the cab.If your Defender is acting like a snail or slug try some of this stuff.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/02/602.jpg (http://s113.photobucket.com/user/LandyAndy_2006/media/120_zps74bddc13.jpg.html)
Andrew

[TerryO]

Ive been looking for that pick on my computer Terry,I took that pic at the BP roadhouse in town,it was brand spanking new heading for Albany.
Tray is too long for my liking.
Andrew


Goggle is your friend Andrew. ... ;)

[Disco-tastic]

Elsewhere he talked about fitting sliders on the suspension wishbones from memory. You used to be able to and possibly still can buy flat plates that protected the suspension, under the rear diff, Gearbox, drive shaft etc. Don't believe they were meant for sliding rather to stop rocks smashing everything.

with an ARB bar fitted it is just about completely flat all the way back to the auto, apart from the front suspension. Add in the gearbox plate and a compressor cover and there is not much under there to get caught on except the exhaust where it goes under the rear suspension.

If I remember right I don't think he had a e-diff, it didn't look like it when he lifted his rear wheel either. Which makes its progress in that slop pretty impressive.

Did he have to alter much, Yep he did. But alot less than one might think. His main concern in the end was the inner plastic wheel guards which he never explained how he fixed them to fit around everything that I could find.

He had to reroute the rear air conditioning lines and hammer a couple of inner guard body seams flat and the biggest change was cutting off a inch of chassis rail that sticks out for no obvious reason on either side under the firewall into the front wheel arch. He had to tie up a section of canbus cabling with a cable tie or two as well up under one of the front guards. I'm sure there were others things but none that spring to mind.

So all in all not such a big job and not really expensive at all parts wise either that I remember. Not sure if he used wheel spacers, maybe someone else might remember if he did. I would like to have seen him on a dry rocky steep track or two like most here play on, that would have been of more interest for me.

Anyway a impressive vehicle and his 2.6 tons of weight didn't seam to stop him in the mud either.

He had 12.5 inch wide tyres and needed a fair offset on his rim to achieve it. He also had 2" airbag spacers which he cut down to 1&1/4" along with shorter sensor rods.

(Just read his thread :p)

Cheers

Dan

[Celtoid]

It all brings us back to the new Deefer. LR say it will be the best offroader in their line up. Sounds great but perhaps that just means compared to what might in 2018 be a dumbed down (for offroad) D5....

Cheers




"Dumbed Down D5" Interesting take. Considering a D4 can do most things a Deefer can (as well as better a lot of things a Deefer cant). And JLR are improving as they go ... (as in... D5 better than D4)! I figure a dumbed down version would be awesome ....

[Celtoid]

He had 12.5 inch wide tyres and needed a fair offset on his rim to achieve it. He also had 2" airbag spacers which he cut down to 1&1/4" along with shorter sensor rods.

(Just read his thread :p)

Cheers

Dan


Oh what? .... he didn't need a chainsaw, 28' angle grinder, an auger and an Engineering team to achieve that result? Wow ... go figure?


Imagine a D4 in this video .....

[ozscott]

Celtoid. My point is the new D5 may have a less offroad focus than the D4 given that the company knows it it producing a very offroad focused vehcile in about the same year - ie Defender. I dont think we can assume that D5 will have more bushability than.D4 especially the way brake and minimum rim sizes are going. If D5 is better offroad than the D4 then great and great too for the new Defender because LR have to make the Defender the best offroader in the line up 1. Because they said so and because they need to have such an icon and 2. because Defender has alwaya carried that tag.

Cheers

[Celtoid]

Celtoid. My point is the new D5 may have a less offroad focus than the D4 given that the company knows it it producing a very offroad focused vehcile in about the same year - ie Defender. I dont think we can assume that D5 will have more bushability than.D4 especially the way brake and minimum rim sizes are going. If D5 is better offroad than the D4 then great and great too for the new Defender because LR have to make the Defender the best offroader in the line up 1. Because they said so and because they need to have such an icon and 2. because Defender has alwaya carried that tag.

Cheers


You're right mate, it will be an interesting development. The Deefer has big shoes to fill to ensure it lives up to and surpasses its own legacy and to demonstrate its value in off-road prowess compared to a vehicle with a different target audience (the D5).

[DiscoMick]

Celtoid. My point is the new D5 may have a less offroad focus than the D4 given that the company knows it it producing a very offroad focused vehcile in about the same year - ie Defender. I dont think we can assume that D5 will have more bushability than.D4 especially the way brake and minimum rim sizes are going. If D5 is better offroad than the D4 then great and great too for the new Defender because LR have to make the Defender the best offroader in the line up 1. Because they said so and because they need to have such an icon and 2. because Defender has alwaya carried that tag.

Cheers
The D4 is much heavier than the Defender so it needed bigger brakes to meet braking standards, which reduced wheel size options. Hopefully JLR's move to aluminium platforms will cut the weight of the D5 significantly, as has already happened with the Range Rovers, so it will be able to have more practical wheel and tyre sizes.

[TerryO]

There is this on going misconception by some that late model Disco's cannot fit 18" rims with the present so called big brake package, this is not correct.

GOA and several other suppliers around the globe have for years sold 18" wheels that fit the D4's larger brakes.

LR can fit and supply 18" rims if they chose to with the present brake package, but they choose not too.

Equally so as has been said in South Africa LR supply new a D4 with 17" rims, so they have that option as well if they wanted to sell that spec Disco here in Australia. Again they choose not too.

I do not believe for one minute the story told by LR that this is about needing bigger brakes because the D4 is so heavy. A diesel or V6 petrol D3 weighed as much as a D4 and had smaller brakes and passed ADR's easily, which I do not believe have changed. The V8 had larger brakes but still fitted 18" rims no problem.
This is all about making it hard with standard wheels to fit larger or even decent off road spec tyres, which annoyed plenty of punters when they went 19" rims by the way, so they had to have a excuse and the excuse given was brakes which is hard to argue against.

There are plenty of other brand 2.5 ton 4x4's out there that run 17" and 18" rims and brakes to suit and they pass ADR's and are sold here, which makes a mockery of this weight and brake excuse that LR uses to justify 19" rims which have the worst choice of off road tyres available ion this country.

[Celtoid]

There is this on going misconception by some that late model Disco's cannot fit 18" rims with the present so called big brake package, this is not correct.

GOA and several other suppliers around the globe have for years sold 18" wheels that fit the D4's larger brakes.

LR can fit and supply 18" rims if they chose to with the present brake package, they choose not too.

Equally so as has been said in South Africa LR supply new a D4 with 17" rims, so they have that option as well if they wanted to sell that spec Disco here in Australia. Again they choose not too.

I do not believe for one minute the story told by LR that this is about needing bigger brakes because the D4 is so heavy. A diesel or V6 petrol D3 weighed as much as a D4 and had smaller brakes and passed ADR's easily, which I do not believe have changed. The V8 had larger brakes but still fitted 18" rims no problem.
This is all about making it hard with standard wheels to fit larger or even decent off road spec tyres, which annoyed plenty of punters when they went 19" rims by the way, so they had to have a excuse and the excuse given was brakes which is hard to argue against.

There are plenty of other brand 2.5 ton 4x4's out there that run 17" and 18" rims and brakes to suit and they pass ADR's and are sold here, which makes a mockery of this weight and brake excuse that LR uses to justify 19" rims which have the worst choice of off road tyres available ion this country.

Yeah, whilst I can't comment on the 'agenda' of JLR, I was just about to mention that I don't swallow the size necessity argument.

An LC200 for example weighs as much if not more than a D4. Its V8 diesel also produces more torque and power than the Disco, yet it has smaller wheels. I guess it has smaller brakes.

Now, I believe it doesn't brake as well as a D4 but it obviously passed the government requirements.

[BMKal]

My D4 (2.7 litre TDV6) came from the factory with 18 inch rims. With all the crap I have in/on it, I'd say it would be heavier than most D4's on the road. The (smaller) brakes in it still work much better than any other 4WD I've driven, including Landcruisersand Prados.

I really can't see why the slight increase in power and torque that comes with the 3 litre engine necessitates an increase in brake size. I mean, it's not as though you stomp on the anchors while your other foot is still buried to the floor on the go pedal, is it.:o

In my opinion, the larger 19 inch, and especially the ridiculous 20 inch rims, are much more about looks and the latest "trends" than they are about functionality.

[Meken]

There is this on going misconception by some that late model Disco's cannot fit 18" rims with the present so called big brake package, this is not correct.

GOA and several other suppliers around the globe have for years sold 18" wheels that fit the D4's larger brakes.

LR can fit and supply 18" rims if they chose to with the present brake package, they choose not too.

Equally so as has been said in South Africa LR supply new a D4 with 17" rims, so they have that option as well if they wanted to sell that spec Disco here in Australia. Again they choose not too.

I do not believe for one minute the story told by LR that this is about needing bigger brakes because the D4 is so heavy. A diesel or V6 petrol D3 weighed as much as a D4 and had smaller brakes and passed ADR's easily, which I do not believe have changed. The V8 had larger brakes but still fitted 18" rims no problem.
This is all about making it hard with standard wheels to fit larger or even decent off road spec tyres, which annoyed plenty of punters when they went 19" rims by the way, so they had to have a excuse and the excuse given was brakes which is hard to argue against.

There are plenty of other brand 2.5 ton 4x4's out there that run 17" and 18" rims and brakes to suit and they pass ADR's and are sold here, which makes a mockery of this weight and brake excuse that LR uses to justify 19" rims which have the worst choice of off road tyres available ion this country.


Gordon might chime in here (he seems to have inside knowledge) - I understand the bigger brakes relate to the traction control /terrain response system providing a better response - which seems to be case comparing D3 & D4
I'd be very surprised if LR went out of their way to install bigger (read more expensive) brakes just to limit wheel/ tyre choices available on their "most awarded 4wd in the world"

[TerryO]

Gordon might chime in here (he seems to have inside knowledge) - I understand the bigger brakes relate to the traction control /terrain response system providing a better response - which seems to be case comparing D3 & D4
I'd be very surprised if LR went out of their way to install bigger (read more expensive) brakes just to limit wheel/ tyre choices available on their "most awarded 4wd in the world"


Meken, I might be wrong and I'm sure someone will let me know if I am, but if I remember rightly 18's fit on the rear of a 3.0 D4 without mods and from what I remember others have said if you spend ten minutes with a grinder you can scrub off enough metal from the oversize for no obvious reason front calipers which allows 18's to be fitted.

If that is the case then LR could fit a slightly different caliper with the same size pistons and pad area that would do the job and allow 18's to be fitted which in no way would compromise the braking ability of a D4.

That being the case then this is a actual decision to go down this path not a necessity.

[roverrescue]

Just back tracking. That d3 dual cab is likely the best thing one could do to the rear end of a d3/4 ....
Andy the tray is not too long. The wheel base is too short.
S

[gghaggis]

Meken, I might be wrong and I'm sure someone will let me know if I am, but if I remember rightly 18's fit on the rear of a 3.0 D4 without mods and from what I remember others have said if you spend ten minutes with a grinder you can scrub off enough metal from the oversize for no obvious reason front calipers which allows 18's to be fitted.

If that is the case then LR could fit a slightly different caliper with the same size pistons and pad area that would do the job and allow 18's to be fitted which in no way would compromise the braking ability of a D4.

That being the case then this is a actual decision to go down this path not a necessity.

I don't recall seeing anywhere where LR have said they required larger brakes due to weight. I know a few people on this and other threads have suggested that, but it didn't come from LR. As you said, the D3 and D4 are equivalent in weight and size. The various D4 pre-launch info packs said it was to improve the Traction Control and limit fading, which the D3 could be prone to do. Of course, it also improved general stopping ability, but I don't read that as being the primary reason.

The size of the heat fins on the front callipers may have been an over-reaction, but I'd be cautious about modifying them extensively. I took 3mm off a D4 calliper when we were trying to fit the GMAX rims and there didn't seem to be any side-effects, but then we weren't pushing the TC in hot conditions. The GMAX still wouldn't fit without an illegal offset, and the LR 18" rims wouldn't fit at all.

Regarding the off-road ability of the "D5", LRE UK have been told it will be better.

Cheers,

Gordon

[TerryO]

Thanks for that Gordon, do you know if there were ever any TC related fading issues with larger brakes on the V8 D3?

[gghaggis]

Thanks for that Gordon, do you know if there were ever any TC related fading issues with larger brakes on the V8 D3?

There were a few reports from the US forums around 2006 ~ 8 when anything with LR3 on it was considered "un-Disco", but nothing after that, which is odd as more are off-roaded these days. So perhaps a little exaggerated at the time?

Cheers,

Gordon

[Celtoid]

I don't recall seeing anywhere where LR have said they required larger brakes due to weight. I know a few people on this and other threads have suggested that, but it didn't come from LR. As you said, the D3 and D4 are equivalent in weight and size. The various D4 pre-launch info packs said it was to improve the Traction Control and limit fading, which the D3 could be prone to do. Of course, it also improved general stopping ability, but I don't read that as being the primary reason.

The size of the heat fins on the front callipers may have been an over-reaction, but I'd be cautious about modifying them extensively. I took 3mm off a D4 calliper when we were trying to fit the GMAX rims and there didn't seem to be any side-effects, but then we weren't pushing the TC in hot conditions. The GMAX still wouldn't fit without an illegal offset, and the LR 18" rims wouldn't fit at all.

Regarding the off-road ability of the "D5", LRE UK have been told it will be better.

Cheers,

Gordon


Which is probably why the new Deefer will be built upon the same bones ..... LOL!!!!


Wouldn't that just kill the Deefer guys .... ;)

[ozscott]

It probably will be built on the same bones. But with better clearance, angles etc and smaller rims. The fact of shared platform with D5 wont kill the existing Defender owners!

Cheers

[MrLandy]

It probably will be built on the same bones. But with better clearance, angles etc and smaller rims. The fact of shared platform with D5 wont kill the existing Defender owners!

Cheers

It all depends on whether it's a soft roader platform or not

[1nando]

I can honestly say that once i am in the market place for a new 4wd (one day in the future) i will be looking for something with lives axels. If that is not available then i will have to consider my options carefully. Jeep and Toyota may be the only options one day, or not...

My opinion.

[rar110]

LR won't want the new Defender to take sales away from the D5 market. I think the D5 will look similar to the L494 with slightly steeper angles and be aimed at the affordable luxury buyers.

I think the new Defender will have some visible connection to the DS, D5, RRS & RRV, without the same level of luxury. Although I bet there will be a luxury model. But it will probably also have some visible connection to the old Defender. Underneath it will be a D3/4 including with a 6 speed auto and T5 chassis, again so to differentiate from the rest of the range. A 130 style vehicle might get rear coils but I doubt it. Trucks have been running EAS for years. 18" wheels will be standard. The motor won't have the high power/weight ratio of the other models, but will be a more powerful workhorse than the current model. It will probably miss out on xenon lights.

[ozscott]

LR keep saying that the new Deefer will be clearly their best offroad vehicle in the range...should be interesting. Cheers

[TerryO]

Well I guess it was always going to end up this way with the Defenders owners hanging around the Disco area trying to figure out what the new Defender will be like. ... ;)

Don't worry guys it will be great, after all it will be a Disco with a square old school style body on it to make all you nostalgic types feel like you haven't been completely abandoned.

As for it having live axles, why on earth would they want to wreck it?

... :angel:

[ozscott]

While I prefer live axles in an offroader i doubt even Toyota will keep them in the longer term with the push to reduce weight and have more car like handling. But hey that's what the second hand market it for. Having a well sorted D1, D2, RRC or original Defender will be like owning a GTHO for weekend drives and having a faster electric hybrid for the working week. Your weekends will be full of character and will satisfy the hunter gatherer part of the brain in an otherwise anemic world of whispering silence and magic carpet rides.

Cheers

Cheers

[TerryO]

Your weekends will be full of character and will satisfy the hunter gatherer part of the brain in an otherwise anemic world of whispering silence and magic carpet rides.

Cheers

Cheers


You must drink a very interesting brew of coffee first thing in the morning Scott. ... ;)

[ozscott]

Yes mate. I roast my own. This week its from Tanzania. Rich Crema and a viscous long pour with no hint on blonding at all as a ristretto...bugger sounding like a Disco owner.

Cheers

[Disco-tastic]

Yes mate. I roast my own. This week its from Tanzania. Rich Crema and a viscous long pour with no hint on blonding at all as a ristretto...bugger sounding like a Disco owner.

Cheers

Oooohh sounds nice. What sort of gear do you have?

I have thought about roasting my own but have never had time.

Cheers

Dan

[ozscott]

Hi Dan (nicely off topic) but I roast using a bread maker to agitate the beans and a heat gun directed into the bean mass. I have a thermocouple going from the bean mass to a lap top to chart the roast profile. For brewing, apart from a range of plungers, stove tops, drip' etc I have a FAEMA Due 2 group commercial and a Mazzer Super Jolly doser grinder and use a Greg Pullman tamper machined to my baskets.

Cheers

[Disco-tastic]

Haha this thread hasnt been strictly on topic for a while now.

Nice setup. I looked into doing similar a few years ago but mum had chucked her bread maker :p i then looked at a behmor benchtop roaster too. Too much time commitment!

i hope to upgrade to a similar espresso setup to yours one day, but my little gaggia classic refuses to die :rolleyes:

Cheers

Dan

[MrLandy]

Not off topic at all :) ...Disco owners are looking for the perfect caffe latte blend with some frilly flower design on top, while Defender owners simply want the classic straight up ristretto or caffe doppio, the crema of the crop so to speak :p:wasntme:

A Rocket and Mini Mazzer would be my ideal, but the old girl Rancilio Silvia and Rocky grinder 12 years old and still going strong...because they are built like a Defender!

[Toxic_Avenger]

My parents have coffee bean trees, and I went full caveman one year and processed my own beans.
After countless hours seeding them, and fermenting the pulp off, I tried to roast them in a popcorn machine. Without doubt it was the worst (and most time consuming) cup of coffee I've ever had.

[shanegtr]

My parents have coffee bean trees, and I went full caveman one year and processed my own beans.
After countless hours seeding them, and fermenting the pulp off, I tried to roast them in a popcorn machine. Without doubt it was the worst (and most time consuming) cup of coffee I've ever had.
I probably wouldnt have noticed - it all tastes like **** to me. I think Im the only shift worker at work who doesnt drink coffee :)

[Celtoid]

Not off topic at all :) ...Disco owners are looking for the perfect caffe latte blend with some frilly flower design on top, while Defender owners simply want the classic straight up ristretto or caffe doppio, the crema of the crop so to speak :p:wasntme:

A Rocket and Mini Mazzer would be my ideal, but the old girl Rancilio Silvia and Rocky grinder 12 years old and still going strong...because they are built like a Defender!


I've got a Rancilio Sivia ..... the bloody thing started rusting (frame) after a few months. They obviously don't make them like they used to. :angry:


Makes great coffee though.

[jonesy63]

For those of us time-poor coffee lovers, I can highly recommend that you join CoffeeSnobs (CoffeeSnobs (http://www.coffeesnobs.com.au)). In the BeanBay section, you can buy roast-to-order coffee.

I can highly recommend the Ethopian Harrar Longberry! ;):D

[scarry]

I probably wouldnt have noticed - it all tastes like **** to me. I think Im the only shift worker at work who doesnt drink coffee :)

I am one of the few that hate the stuff as well:o:D

[ozscott]

The Ms Silvia is a solid machine. Pitty about the rust. They typically sold it as a pair with the Rocky grinder. I have the Rocky grinder and converted it to stepless and tightened the burr carriers...made a huge difference but the Super Jolly is a fair way ahead when using a commercial group. I love using the big commercial - 11 litre boiler. Great temp stability. Fantastic when the whole family is over and the hot water tap is the business for tea through the day.

I started using a modified popcorn maker with tin can chimney.

I have been on the Coffeesnobs forum for many years. That is where i get 90% of my greens. Thoroughly recommend it.

Cheers

[ozscott]

MrLandy the stepless mod costs about $1 and is quick and easy to remove later....if you guys want to know how its done let me know.

Cheers

[LRD414]

I've got a Rancilio Sivia ..... the bloody thing started rusting (frame) after a few months. They obviously don't make them like they used to. :angry:
Makes great coffee though.
That's interesting. We bought a Silvia and Rocky grinder almost ten years ago and neither have missed a beat in all that time and no rust. Touch wood no issues, just regular cleaning.

Amazingly the price for the machine/grinder package is actually $100 cheaper than 10 years ago.

Scott

[Celtoid]

That's interesting. We bought a Silvia and Rocky grinder almost ten years ago and neither have missed a beat in all that time and no rust. Touch wood no issues, just regular cleaning.

Amazingly the price for the machine/grinder package is actually $100 cheaper than 10 years ago.

Scott


I think that's the issue Scott. Mine is only a couple of years old.


It rusted near the water tray at the bottom .... only on one side, so I suspect a perforation in the paint/finish.


I always clean both the grinder (with a brush .... and toothpick to get the beans out of the screw holes) and the machine and never leave water in the tray. So I was a bit disappointed.


Easy fix .... WD40 arrested the issue. Coffee has never tasted the same since though ... LOL!!! Kidding.


What amazes me, is the fact that you can run a supermarket grade bean through the machine and you'd struggle to find a better coffee in the CBD.


Better beans just lift the bar :).


Back on LR but to your point .... I paid less for more D4 4.5 years after my first one. Both new.

[sctsprin]

I've kept quiet til now, but since we're going all out on Defender vs D4, latte vs God knows what

Real men hand grind, HG1
Real men use a lever, Londinium L1
Real men drink double ristretto
:D

Oh yeah and being the geek I've over complicated and arduino' a hottop roaster

[1nando]

Double espresso no sugar.....followed by another. Best breakfast before jumping into a truck......or the office :D
Really gets the heart rate going

[sctsprin]

Too right, see deefer and D4 drivers can have something in common :)

[rick130]

I love using the big commercial - 11 litre boiler. Great temp stability. Fantastic when the whole family is over and the hot water tap is the business for tea through the day.



Yep, can't beat a commercial machine for hot water delivery and steam. :D
I repaired a friends 3 group Boema a few month ago.
A new group solenoid, boiler element and boiler sight glass/level.
I used the two group element to reduce the current draw so we could use a 15amp GPO and it still delivers copious amounts of steam and stinking hot water.

I did a baristas course a few years ago and we used open baskets so we could easily see the consistency of our tamp and polish.
I'd never seen them used until then, I thought that was a great idea.

BTW there were only four of us on the course which was great, and we all used the same beans and grind, so only the tamp/polish, maybe the dose slightly and we were doing the extraction manually by watching the crema and every persons shot tasted different. They were all good, but different.
Yes, I was the only crazy tasting them all. :D

Coffee snobs is a great board, although haven't been on there for a very long time.

[rick130]

My parents have coffee bean trees, and I went full caveman one year and processed my own beans.
After countless hours seeding them, and fermenting the pulp off, I tried to roast them in a popcorn machine. Without doubt it was the worst (and most time consuming) cup of coffee I've ever had.

So these days you just wander down to Adimi's instead ? :D

[ozscott]

Rick i do my own work maintaining my 30 year old machine also. I have done the rotary pump, pressurestat, solenoid, group seal, new flared copper pipe for the volumetric feed, serviced seals for steam wands, replaced blow off safety valve etc. I also lagged the boiler years ago and doubled the time it takes for the pressurestat to kick in.

Great fun. Mine runs on a 15 amp GPO.

Ĺove the microfoam from that boiler!

I too like naked PFs to watch the pours and check on dosing and tamping.

But for the general reading public...the first port of call for better coffee is good boutique roasted beans or well done home roasted (better after practice).

Cheers

[Toxic_Avenger]

Pretty much Rick!
The go-to at home these days is just a stove top espresso machine. Works well for the effort and money invested

[sctsprin]

Oh and portaspresso for camping

[Celtoid]

Rick i do my own work maintaining my 30 year old machine also. I have done the rotary pump, pressurestat, solenoid, group seal, new flared copper pipe for the volumetric feed, serviced seals for steam wands, replaced blow off safety valve etc. I also lagged the boiler years ago and doubled the time it takes for the pressurestat to kick in.

Great fun. Mine runs on a 15 amp GPO.

Ĺove the microfoam from that boiler!

I too like naked PFs to watch the pours and check on dosing and tamping.

But for the general reading public...the first port of call for better coffee is good boutique roasted beans or well done home roasted (better after practice).

Cheers


Can you recommend a good boutique 'brand' locally or online?


Cheers.

[sctsprin]

Single guys is ok
The coffeesnobs stuff is ok too

Kenyan, Malawi or Panamanian

[Disco-tastic]

Oh and portaspresso for camping

Ive been looking at a cafflano klassic pourover from south korea for camping. Its the size of an extra large takeaway cup and includes a hand grinder, pourover cup, filter and (of course) the cup. Its just hard to find and expensive.

I could just buy a hario grinder and a separate pourover or stovetop or plunger, but i really like the all in one nature of the klassic.

Also, any of you guys put a PID in your Ms Silvia? Ive heard it makes them even better!

Cheers

Dan

PS. Sorry for the epic hijack Terry! :o

[rick130]

Scott, I was a service agent but haven't fixed too many machines, and yes, it was good fun to wrap my head around another electro-mechanical device and try and make it work, or work better.

[rick130]

PS. Sorry for the epic hijack Terry! :o

It's time, we haven't had a decent coffee thread here for ages now ! :D

[sctsprin]

What about Vietnamese coffee, yummy and simple


Ive been looking at a cafflano klassic pourover from south korea for camping. Its the size of an extra large takeaway cup and includes a hand grinder, pourover cup, filter and (of course) the cup. Its just hard to find and expensive.

I could just buy a hario grinder and a separate pourover or stovetop or plunger, but i really like the all in one nature of the klassic.

Also, any of you guys put a PID in your Ms Silvia? Ive heard it makes them even better!

Cheers

Dan

PS. Sorry for the epic hijack Terry! :o

[Meken]

All this talk about roasting & tamping is going to scare away the deefer drivers. We need an injection of international roast discussion ....

[LandyAndy]

It's time, we haven't had a decent coffee thread here for ages now ! :D

We havent had a decent coffee here since you defender steerers trashed our latte machine:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Andrew

[sctsprin]

My offsider at work dreams of owning a series land rover and has a massive tin of int. Roast on his desk :p


All this talk about roasting & tamping is going to scare away the deefer drivers. We need an injection of international roast discussion ....

[Disco-tastic]

My offsider at work dreams of owning a series land rover and has a massive tin of int. Roast on his desk :p

Ewwwwwwwwwwww

Cheers

Dan

[sctsprin]

He's very proud of his love of **** coffee

[rick130]

We havent had a decent coffee here since you defender steerers trashed our latte machine:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
Andrew


Keep up with the thread Andrew, we're the blokes that can fix the machine, as well as pull a decent shot and make a nice, dense milky foam, if you're nice to us. ;)

[ozscott]

Celtoid i am on Tapatalk at the moment....where are you based?

Single guys....you a fellow western suburbs dweller? They are good. So for Brissy based best beans are Mountain Top Estate Ray's and Coffeesnobs via mail. For shots Single Guys, Campos, Veneziano etc ...there are a lot now.

One of my absolute favorite single origins via Coffeesnobs is Yemen Bani Ishmael...top bean and wild grown not farmed. Knarly beans. Also love Peru Villa Rica Grace Estate and Ethopian single origins AND AND AND....list could go on. I dont do blends just very good single origins. We are talking $10-$20 per kilo for most of the really good stuff in green so it's cheap too.

Cheers Rick. Great stuff.

Oz

[sctsprin]

I hope you don't put milk in those SOs


Celtoid i am on Tapatalk at the moment....where are you based?

Single guys....you a fellow western suburbs dweller? They are good. So for Brissy based best beans are Mountain Top Estate Ray's and Coffeesnobs via mail. For shots Single Guys, Campos, Veneziano etc ...there are a lot now.

One of my absolute favorite single origins via Coffeesnobs is Yemen Bani Ishmael...top bean and wild grown not farmed. Knarly beans. Also love Peru Villa Rica Grace Estate and Ethopian single origins AND AND AND....list could go on. I dont do blends just very good single origins. We are talking $10-$20 per kilo for most of the really good stuff in green so it's cheap too.

Cheers Rick. Great stuff.

Oz

[ozscott]

Sometimes mate. I do like a ristretto flat white SO. Florals and fruit with chocolately velvet aftertaste.

Cheers

[sctsprin]

:cool: Yeah okay I'm not convinced but I'll believe you

[TerryO]

This thread has seriously gone all weird of late thanks to you Defender guys turning it into the bloody coffee club.

Having said that never let it be said us superior Discovery types don't appreciate a decent coffee or two .... ;)

Hell, our Land Rovers aren't just better off road than yours... they even come with a custom carpeted fold down table to make our favourite brew on while you lot are stuck with your rattly old leaky back doors. ... :p

[Celtoid]

Celtoid i am on Tapatalk at the moment....where are you based?

Single guys....you a fellow western suburbs dweller? They are good. So for Brissy based best beans are Mountain Top Estate Ray's and Coffeesnobs via mail. For shots Single Guys, Campos, Veneziano etc ...there are a lot now.

One of my absolute favorite single origins via Coffeesnobs is Yemen Bani Ishmael...top bean and wild grown not farmed. Knarly beans. Also love Peru Villa Rica Grace Estate and Ethopian single origins AND AND AND....list could go on. I dont do blends just very good single origins. We are talking $10-$20 per kilo for most of the really good stuff in green so it's cheap too.

Cheers Rick. Great stuff.

Oz


SW Brissy mate. :D

[Celtoid]

This thread has seriously gone all weird of late thanks to you Defender guys turning it into the bloody coffee club.

Having said that never let it be said us superior Discovery types don't appreciate a decent coffee or two .... ;)

Hell, our Land Rovers aren't just better off road than yours... they even come with a custom carpeted fold down table to make our favourite brew on while you lot are stuck with your rattly old leaky back doors. ... :p


I often sit on that carpeted fold down table, admiring the vista that I easily approached thanks to my superb car, fine single malt whisky in my hand, thinking about my next fly fishing holiday ....... :D

[sctsprin]

How's the ROK does it make real espresso?


This thread has seriously gone all weird of late thanks to you Defender guys turning it into the bloody coffee club.

Having said that never let it be said us superior Discovery types don't appreciate a decent coffee or two .... ;)

Hell, our Land Rovers aren't just better off road than yours... they even come with a custom carpeted fold down table to make our favourite brew on while you lot are stuck with your rattly old leaky back doors. ... :p

[sctsprin]

So are you volunteering to teach us all fly fishing :p


I often sit on that carpeted fold down table, admiring the vista that I easily approached thanks to my superb car, fine single malt whisky in my hand, thinking about my next fly fishing holiday ....... :D

[DiscoMick]

This thread has seriously gone all weird of late thanks to you Defender guys turning it into the bloody coffee club.

Having said that never let it be said us superior Discovery types don't appreciate a decent coffee or two .... ;)

Hell, our Land Rovers aren't just better off road than yours... they even come with a custom carpeted fold down table to make our favourite brew on while you lot are stuck with your rattly old leaky back doors. ... :p

Defenders have flat front mudguard tops because coffee cups fit nicely on top of the air intakes while the driver leans thoughtfully on the mudguard considering the state of the world.

[sctsprin]

of course that means they have to stand up, whereas we get to sit down and rest our weary bones

[DiscoMick]

Can't you sit on Disco mudguards, while staring intently into the distance?

[sctsprin]

Can't you sit on Disco mudguards, while staring intently into the distance?

only if we bolted on wrangler guards, which would be an interesting look

[ozscott]

Hey guys lets not use the J word...let's keep it clean.

Cheers

[DiscoMick]

I used to sit on the mudguards of my D1.

[sctsprin]

:angel::BigThumb::p


Hey guys lets not use the J word...let's keep it clean.

Cheers

[TerryO]

Defenders have flat front mudguard tops because coffee cups fit nicely on top of the air intakes while the driver leans thoughtfully on the mudguard considering the state of the world.


Come on Mick fess up the real reason LR put the coffee cup holders on the front guards of a Defender is because they knew that's where you lot would be standing while you are feverishly figuring which is the easiest path to proceed on without getting stuck.

LR put ours at the rear with a seat so when we have already traversed the narly track first go and you guys guys are still wondering how to follow on we have somewhere to sit and patiently wait while enjoying a brew watching you guys bumbling and sliding around trying to follow. ... :angel:

... :p

[DiscoMick]

Come on Mick fess up the real reason LR put the coffee cup holders on a Defender on the front guards is so you guys have something to drink while figuring which is the easiest way to proceed without getting stuck.

LR put ours at the rear with a seat so when we have already traversed the narly track first go and you guys guys are still wondering how to follow on we have have somewhere to sit and patiently wait enjoying a brew while watching you guys bumbling and sliding around trying to follow. ... :angel:

... :p
I thought Discos had tables at the rear so English Sloan Rangers could have a brew (nothing wrong with that) in the car park while little Daphne and Roger groomed their nags, played polo and flirted with royalty.

[ozscott]

My D1 handbook has all the Royal crests of UK on the back cover...I feel like a country gent in my D1.

Cheers

[Celtoid]

So are you volunteering to teach us all fly fishing :p

I grew up fly fishing in Scotland ..... but it's been a long time between trips :(

I have actually fished with flies at Barrington Tops, whilst camping. Nice little trout there .... very yummy.

[TerryO]

How's the ROK does it make real espresso?


I took that photo at the 2013 D3/D4/RRS Lithgow weekend one day when we stopped for lunch on the top of some hill and one of the D4 owners pulled out all that gear then proceeded to make coffee for everyone.

So to be frank I don't have any idea but I do remember that the coffee was pretty good.

[SimmAus]

I took that photo at the 2013 D3/D4/RRS Lithgow weekend one day when we stopped for lunch on the top of some hill and one of the D4 owners pulled out all that gear then proceeded to make coffee for everyone. So to be frank I don't have any idea but I do remember that the coffee was pretty good.

It was PHL...forgotten IRL name...sorry!
It was quite a process, but good coffee!

[jonesy63]

That was Paul.

Hint: there was a discount on buying ROK in CoffeeSnobs if anyone is interested. :D

[AndyG]

LR keep saying that the new Deefer will be clearly their best offroad vehicle in the range...should be interesting. Cheers

Back to the definition of off roading, a day of play green laning, playing in the mud or sand, or operating cross country doing heavy duty work, be it UN, Utility Services, or Emergency Services, too very different functions

[TerryO]

Back to the definition of off roading, a day of play green laning, playing in the mud or sand, or operating cross country doing heavy duty work, be it UN, Utility Services, or Emergency Services, too very different functions


My bet is the new Defender will be a good bit of gear and very capable off road. Why? What's the use of building a dumbed down Disco and then calling it a Defender. It they did who would buy it?

Most think the present Disco chassis will be the base of the Defender and it might be and seriously they could do much worse, but only time will tell.

[AndyG]

Hey guys lets not use the J word...let's keep it clean.

Cheers

Did Disco copy Patriot or vice versa :D:wasntme:

[manic]

My bet is the new Defender will be a good bit of gear and very capable off road. Why? What's the use of building another school run Disco when they can build a proper offroad Defender. If they did who would buy it?


There fixed. :D

[rick130]

My offsider at work dreams of owning a series land rover and has a massive tin of int. Roast on his desk :p


This thread has seriously gone all weird of late thanks to you Defender guys turning it into the bloody coffee club.

Having said that never let it be said us superior Discovery types don't appreciate a decent coffee or two .... ;)

Hell, our Land Rovers aren't just better off road than yours... they even come with a custom carpeted fold down table to make our favourite brew on while you lot are stuck with your rattly old leaky back doors. ... :p

Actually Terry quite a number of us have fold down tailgate's too.
But seeing as we're hard men who love form and function they are lovely painted aluminium. :p

[MrLandy]

Who puts carpet on their table???

[Celtoid]

Back to the definition of off roading, a day of play green laning, playing in the mud or sand, or operating cross country doing heavy duty work, be it UN, Utility Services, or Emergency Services, too very different functions

And Homer reaches across for another shock ... doh!!!


How many posts now and we are still at the green lane and hard sandy beach stage for some folks .... geez...



I think it's already been established (yawn), a D4 has the strongest chassis and running gear that LR have ever developed and could easily be stripped down to do whatever. It also has a world beating traction control system. It just wasn't in the plan for D4s to be a farm truck ..... get over it!


Relevance? - It would be stupid for LR to create another car that can be super capable off-road but isn't exactly designed to be smashed around internally. Panels are panels but you'd stupid to think that there is anything under a Deefer that is stronger than a D4. However.

So, I'd expect that the new Deefer is going to be just that .... as strong (if not stronger) underneath as the T5 chassis and associated bits (maybe shared) but more utilitarian in basic form.

LR could have modulated the design right back at the D3 days but have obviously had another plan in mind.


It would be idiotic make it otherwise .... but then again ;-)

[rick130]

I think it's already been established (yawn), a D4 has the strongest chassis and running gear that LR have ever developed and could easily be stripped down to do whatever.

Err, no it hasn't.

Just because someone suggests something on the interwebs doesn't make it fact.
And has been already stated by a number of posters, there is a world of difference between torsional rigidity and actual load carrying strength.

I cannot believe for a second that a 130 chassis that is rated to easily carry 1300kg is weaker than a D4 chassis in terms of load carrying strength.
As for running gear, an LT230 t/case is possibly one of the strongest, if not the strongest t/case fitted to a production 4wd, with an excellent low range reduction ratio that is probably lower than most all competitors.
It's been favourably compared to the Atlas t/case, recognised as the strongest aftermarket t/case available and beloved of off road racers in the US.

I seriously doubt the Steyr chain driven t/case can even compare.

Of course some of us have Sals rear diffs too.

I'll see your dinky D4 CWP's and raise it with a mighty 9.75" lump of extreme toughness. :D
Who said size doesn't matter ? :angel:

Of course this comparison doesn't include the last LT230 fitted in the last of the Defenders that has that ridiculously weak centre diff.
Shame Land Rover, shame. :mad:

[justinc]

Hmmm. County/Defender for the REAL off roader. I mean surely you D3/4 types wouldn't look the part with a full turn of the century explorer type beard ....


Jc

[Marty110]

I mean surely you D3/4 types wouldn't look the part with a full turn of the century explorer type beard ....

Jc

Hey Justin - you obviously have forgotten what I look like, the sort of face you have to hide behind a beard (yes an explorer type not one of those prissy van Dykes....)

[BMKal]

Hmmm. County/Defender for the REAL off roader. I mean surely you D3/4 types wouldn't look the part with a full turn of the century explorer type beard ....


Jc


Hey Justin - you obviously have forgotten what I look like, the sort of face you have to hide behind a beard (yes an explorer type not one of those prissy van Dykes....)

Yep - I'm also thinking that Justin has a very short memory. :p:p:p

[TerryO]

Err, no it hasn't.

Just because someone suggests something on the interwebs doesn't make it fact.
And has been already stated by a number of posters, there is a world of difference between torsional rigidity and actual load carrying strength.

I cannot believe for a second that a 130 chassis that is rated to easily carry 1300kg is weaker than a D4 chassis in terms of load carrying strength.
As for running gear, an LT230 t/case is possibly one of the strongest, if not the strongest t/case fitted to a production 4wd, with an excellent low range reduction ratio that is probably lower than most all competitors.
It's been favourably compared to the Atlas t/case, recognised as the strongest aftermarket t/case available and beloved of off road racers in the US.

I seriously doubt the Steyr chain driven t/case can even compare.

Of course some of us have Sals rear diffs too.

I'll see your dinky D4 CWP's and raise it with a mighty 9.75" lump of extreme toughness. :D
Who said size doesn't matter ? :angel:

Of course this comparison doesn't include the last LT230 fitted in the last of the Defenders that has that ridiculously weak centre diff.
Shame Land Rover, shame. :mad:


Ok, we are now talking about the next generation Defender and whether it might be based on the current Disco Chassis, again as I said earlier time will tell.

Come on Rick the Salisbury is long ago history that finished its run as a limited edition diff in 2002, it's history. As for the lt230 transfer cases well you just said the one LR use now is crap so why even use that as an example either. If you compare the current Disco's running gear to the last generation Defender running gear then I'd say the Disco's is easily stronger and much more reliable.

Sure a Salisbury diff is strong but the last time I went out with Defenders to have a play a couple of years back I had to winch out a Defender on 35's that was stuck high and dry because the Salisbury was stuck on a rock with its rear wheels in the air, might be strong but even with big tyres it was hopeless in rocky terrain where the Disco would have just driven straight over.

The main point Celtoid was making was about the chassis, I have looked closely at a 130's Chassis and many times at a late model Disco's when the body has been off and I bet the Disco's is stronger. But so what if it is? Surely that is a good thing especially if it is what LR is going to use as the basis for the next Defender.

If they use the current Disco's chassis it wouldn't be hard to stretch it for a 130 version if they decided there was enough of a market to build that model and if they use it who is to say they won't use a earlier LT230 transfer case and much better diffs, which everyone knows the Disco already has compared to the current Defender anyway. So they could end up with the best of both models if they want too.

The reality is no one knows what the new Defender will have as running gear or what chassis if any. But why keep dragging up as an example ancient history about the running gear of long ago Defenders when the true comparison is about current models.

It's like a Disco owner saying sure a current Disco has poor ramp over angles compared to a Defender 110 but so what a D1 had great ramp over angles so a Disco is better than a Defender.

[sctsprin]

So what I really want to know is
Would a chopped and modded 35" muddied and roll barred d4 **** all over the same in a patrol, landrcuiser, jeep, defender on an insane rock crawl course, due to its electrickery

[TerryO]

So what I really want to know is
Would a chopped and modded 35" muddied and roll barred d4 **** all over the same in a patrol, landrcuiser, jeep, defender on an insane rock crawl course, due to its electrickery

Don't believe you can fit 35's to a late model Disco, 33's is about it. Having said that if Portals were fitted then 35's should fit easy. But that all goes into the realms of fantasy land and is unlikely unless someone has the inclination and I reckon about $30k to play with. ... ;)

[MrLandy]

Hmmm. County/Defender for the REAL off roader. I mean surely you D3/4 types wouldn't look the part with a full turn of the century explorer type beard ....

Jc

JC has spoken. Agreed. 👍😎

[sctsprin]

I'm talking hypothetical with chopping etc
Ie. Maybe what the new defender will be, but with a tonne of bash protection and no front rear overhang etc
Or in other words, if the LR were given free range to build the ultimate beast



Don't believe you can fit 35's to a late model Disco, 33's is about it. Having said that if Portals were fitted then 35's should fit easy. But that all goes into the realms of fantasy land and is unlikely unless someone has the inclination and I reckon about $30k to play with. ... ;)

[ozscott]

It would be great if they did. At a guess they would go with 17 in wheels (anything is an improvement on what for the D5 would be 19/20 in) and high profile tyres to suit. And higher clearance as standard before any air suspension is raised. Cheers

[Celtoid]

Err, no it hasn't.

Just because someone suggests something on the interwebs doesn't make it fact.
And has been already stated by a number of posters, there is a world of difference between torsional rigidity and actual load carrying strength.

I cannot believe for a second that a 130 chassis that is rated to easily carry 1300kg is weaker than a D4 chassis in terms of load carrying strength.
As for running gear, an LT230 t/case is possibly one of the strongest, if not the strongest t/case fitted to a production 4wd, with an excellent low range reduction ratio that is probably lower than most all competitors.
It's been favourably compared to the Atlas t/case, recognised as the strongest aftermarket t/case available and beloved of off road racers in the US.

I seriously doubt the Steyr chain driven t/case can even compare.

Of course some of us have Sals rear diffs too.

I'll see your dinky D4 CWP's and raise it with a mighty 9.75" lump of extreme toughness. :D
Who said size doesn't matter ? :angel:

Of course this comparison doesn't include the last LT230 fitted in the last of the Defenders that has that ridiculously weak centre diff.
Shame Land Rover, shame. :mad:


Errr OK. Let's say that even quotes from users, mechanics and LR themselves are subjective and open to interpretation. So let's look at it another way.


Folks are fooling themselves by looking at the load carrying capacity of each vehicle. At the end of the day the pertinent factor is how much it weighs in total. The laws of physics don't care how that weight is distributed, it's just a weight.


Stats straight off the 2016 Australian LR site quote a 130 'Heavy Duty' at max weight of 3,500KG. With the ability to tow the same weight. A D4 is quoted as a max weight of 3,240KG + 3,500KG tow. So there is only 260KG in max weight difference. A 110 is about the same weight less than a D4 max loaded and a 90 less again.


So unless I'm interpreting things incorrectly, there isn't much in it between a 130 and a D4. However, a D4 has significantly more power and torque and can go faster. So all that energy/force has to be absorbed, distributed, diverted somewhere. That is a physics fact that cannot be ignored. So the car has been engineered, designed and made to handle how its weight and power translate to energy/force in all circumstances. This is a really easy way to look at it. I'm sure Gordon can come up with the formulas to calculate an exact measurable.


So, I really doubt that a D4 is made of cheese or they would be spitting drivetrain bits and boxes all over the place. And I never said the Deefer was either.


My point was .... and only this, that after .... we are close to 1000 posts now .... some folks are still stating that a D4 is made of putty and cheese and is only suitable for Green Lanes and Hard Sandy beaches. Oh, my other point, which has been stated, was that it would be stupid of LR to make another D4. You'd think the new Deefer would stand out, really stand out in different ways.


You think they'd get it by now wouldn't you?


Maybe they think the D4 off-road prowess claims are subjective too .... LOL ;)

[1nando]

The whole monocoque chassis thing being stronger is a load of BS!

yes i am going to refer to trucks here;

Things built to lug heavy loads day in and day out use ladder frame chassis not monocoque chassis. There is also a reason trucks have live axels, allows big loads to be carried day in and day out. A vehicle that is tough enough to carry a big load is a strong vehicle. Better yet is that the puma is 1/2 ton lighter than a d4 but has a 1/4 ton more pay load......looks to me like the defender chassis is plenty strong.

The weakest link in the puma is the rear diff and axels. $3000 for an elocker, hy tuff axels and hd flanges all round fixes this. Costs about the same as it does to fit a decent set of rims and tyres on a d4.

You have convinced me the d4 is capable but you will never convince me its tougher or more capable OFF ROAD than my puma. Yes it is more capable at speed, and on tarmac but that is not the comparison here.

I repeat the most important factors in a tough 4wd are: vehicle clearance, tyre size, supply carrying capacity and load, angles of approach/exit etc, easy to fix

The d4 has lower sills than a puma, cant fit bigger tyres at a reasonable price, smaller payload, smaller angles of approach etc, and needs a super computer to fix a million and one sensors!

My opinion, you dont have yo agree...but i refuse to sit here and read all the BS that is written on this site. God, if this site was half acurate you'd swear all LR's were pieces of ....!

Out of curiosity how many have ever seen a d4 personally on a tuff track with the big boys?
Besides Gordon and his great rig/set up id say he is the exception to my above statement. There wouldnt be many d4 drivers here that would have ever put theirs vehicles up to that sort of punishment. Its easy to sit at home and write crap on this site!

[1nando]

Also please Google monochrome chassis vs ladder frame and you will see that ttough rugged vehicles all require a ladder frame chassis.

A monocoque chassis is actually a liability off road due to its design. If you were to damage the vehicle lets say on a corner pillar gor example you would then be compromising that vehicles chassis strength! Now im no genius but serious 4wding can lead to some serious bangs ,dents and serious panel damage: this would make the d4 a risky prospect due to its monocoque chassis. This is why trucks and proper/real 4wds are built with ladder frame chassis, there stronger and fit for purpose!

[Celtoid]

Mmmm ....A D4 has a ladder and rail chassis.

[ozscott]

The d3 was probably the strongest platform. I thought d4 dropped weight in chassis. Essentially both are mono on and around ladder. So both platform types in one. Cheers

[Celtoid]

Have you seen the list of 'modification' on Gordon's rig?


I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the main ones are his 18" wheels and his rods.....so.....


And yes he is an exception but not alone and that was never the point of the convo .... it was all about the car. Facts about the car.

[AndyG]

I never suggested the D4 was not hugely capable, what I should have said is the D4 is optimised for the private/ recreational driver. To complement the range the Defender needs to be optimised as a work horse, and will end up having different off road capabilities. Like a heavy usable. payload. Not better or worse, different

[Celtoid]

I never suggested the D4 was not hugely capable, what I should have said is the D4 is optimised for the private/ recreational driver. To complement the range the Defender needs to be optimised as a work horse, and will end up having different off road capabilities. Like a heavy usable. payload. Not better or worse, different


Well, why didn't you say that then? .... LOL


I agree.

[Celtoid]

The d3 was probably the strongest platform. I thought d4 dropped weight in chassis. Essentially both are mono on and around ladder. So both platform types in one. Cheers





I can't comment on that. Sure somebody knows if that is a fact. I thought they had exactly the same chassis. Never heard it mentioned otherwise but that doesn't mean anything.

[AndyG]

I don't understand the argument that solid axles are better than independent, look at the Pinzgauer for example. Mind apparently they have a tendency to fall on their side.


Umm a Defender with factory portals, that would be a game changer, but the $$$$ would prevent that.

[ozscott]

Celtoid they may not of in the end. i had read that they were trying to reduce weight because frankly it didnt need to be as heavy as it was. Of course the extra weight over d2 wasnt just in thick carpet and extra computers. It was taking a ladder chassis and puting monocoque on it.
Or as Clarkson put it, it flattened humps in the road.

[ozscott]

Anyone who doubs the structural strength of a D3/4 only needs to see it in a high speed head on.

Cheers

[TerryO]

The whole monocoque chassis thing being stronger is a load of BS!

yes i am going to refer to trucks here;

Things built to lug heavy loads day in and day out use ladder frame chassis not monocoque chassis. There is also a reason trucks have live axels, allows big loads to be carried day in and day out. A vehicle that is tough enough to carry a big load is a strong vehicle. Better yet is that the puma is 1/2 ton lighter than a d4 but has a 1/4 ton more pay load......looks to me like the defender chassis is plenty strong.

The weakest link in the puma is the rear diff and axels. $3000 for an elocker, hy tuff axels and hd flanges all round fixes this. Costs about the same as it does to fit a decent set of rims and tyres on a d4.

You have convinced me the d4 is capable but you will never convince me its tougher or more capable OFF ROAD than my puma. Yes it is more capable at speed, and on tarmac but that is not the comparison here.

I repeat the most important factors in a tough 4wd are: vehicle clearance, tyre size, supply carrying capacity and load, angles of approach/exit etc, easy to fix

The d4 has lower sills than a puma, cant fit bigger tyres at a reasonable price, smaller payload, smaller angles of approach etc, and needs a super computer to fix a million and one sensors!

My opinion, you dont have yo agree...but i refuse to sit here and read all the BS that is written on this site. God, if this site was half acurate you'd swear all LR's were pieces of ....!

Out of curiosity how many have ever seen a d4 personally on a tuff track with the big boys?
Besides Gordon and his great rig/set up id say he is the exception to my above statement. There wouldnt be many d4 drivers here that would have ever put theirs vehicles up to that sort of punishment. Its easy to sit at home and write crap on this site!


Yes old mate people do write crap on websites and forums. Sometimes you don't have to look to far to find it either.

By the way have you seen this? ... :angel: I reckon it would be a good thing if you watched all of it.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wQl01R8LxTI


So what did you learn? ... ;)

[TerryO]

Also please Google monochrome chassis vs ladder frame and you will see that ttough rugged vehicles all require a ladder frame chassis.

A monocoque chassis is actually a liability off road due to its design. If you were to damage the vehicle lets say on a corner pillar gor example you would then be compromising that vehicles chassis strength! Now im no genius but serious 4wding can lead to some serious bangs ,dents and serious panel damage: this would make the d4 a risky prospect due to its monocoque chassis. This is why trucks and proper/real 4wds are built with ladder frame chassis, there stronger and fit for purpose!


So what could be better than a ladder chassis or a monocoque body if your going to build the ultimate production family friendly 4x4 of its time? ... How about a vehicle that has both a ladder chassis and a monocoque body combined to give maximum strength! ... :ohyes:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wQl01R8LxTI

[SimmAus]

Nice Video.
So we heard "ladder frame chassis";
changed the tyres (we all know that one);
and "I don't think there's anoooother car like it"

Says it all.

[Celtoid]

Interesting that the LR Expedition Roof Rack is only officially rated to 54.3KG ..... yet they have 80L of fuel on top (~80KG) and a spare wheel.....


Unless they are only carrying the spare empty jerries on top .... :confused:

[1nando]

So what could be better than a ladder chassis or a monocoque body if your going to build the ultimate production family friendly 4x4 of its time? ... How about a vehicle that has both a ladder chassis and a monocoque body combined to give maximum strength! ... :ohyes:


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wQl01R8LxTI

A monocoque chassis complenments a ladder chassis. Excess rigidity is not necessarily a good thing in a 4wd but more so in a race car for example. The ladder frame chassis on the d4 relys on its monocoque design for strength and as a result and serious damage to the vehicle compromises its overall stregth.
The reason im mentioning all this is becuase you blokes have been c rapping on for a few posts now making it sound like the defender chassis is some how made of cheese...

As mentioned before the defender weighs 1/2 ton less and has a 1/4 ton more pay load. As a result i cant agree with your argument about the d4 chassis being stronger.

As mentioned before: i have come to accept that the d4 is a capable vehicle. But to put it on par with a defender you need to spend some serious money. If i spend that same amonut on something like a rear locker for wxample then the d4 is no match..my opinion

[ozscott]

Hehe...its going to 100 pages! !

[scarry]

So what did you learn? ... ;)

um,another Puma driver has written a load of BS.....:angel:

Maybe we should all go back to one of Gordons earlier posts...and have a re read.:D

[1nando]

um,another Puma driver has written a load of BS.....:angel:

Maybe we should all go back to one of Gordons earlier posts...and have a re read.:D

Fact: puma weighs 1/2 ton less carrys 1/4 ton more
Fact; puma roof can carry 150kg, d4 only half that
Fact: puma has better body clearance.
Fact: puma has better angles of approach,exit, traversing etc
Fact: puma has the rear wheel located in a more appropriate location when off road. Its not under the car like a giant tampon
Fact: puma has and fits bigger tyres if required
Fact: pumas chassis has lasted the test of time. Its robust and bloody strong and thats why miliatry forces around the world have embraced this vehicle as a machine of war. Everything from ambulances to assault vehicles

Hows that for BS?

Im not disputing the d4s strength but rather trying to highlight that the defender is tried and tested. You blokes make it sound like they are made of cheese.

The disco is the model that falls between the defender and the range rover. Its the vehicle that settles on the middle ground, the defender is the workhorse and has always been (quoted from land rover themselves) LRs toughest vehicle!

[Toxic_Avenger]

Fact: puma has the rear wheel located in a more appropriate location when off road. Its not under the car like a giant tampon

I lol'd

[TerryO]

Fact: puma weighs 1/2 ton less carrys 1/4 ton more
Fact; puma roof can carry 150kg, d4 only half that
Fact: puma has better body clearance.
Fact: puma has better angles of approach,exit, traversing etc
Fact: puma has the rear wheel located in a more appropriate location when off road. Its not under the car like a giant tampon
Fact: puma has and fits bigger tyres if required
Fact: pumas chassis has lasted the test of time. Its robust and bloody strong and thats why miliatry forces around the world have embraced this vehicle as a machine of war. Everything from ambulances to assault vehicles

Hows that for BS?

Im not disputing the d4s strength but rather trying to highlight that the defender is tried and tested. You blokes make it sound like they are made of cheese.

The disco is the model that falls between the defender and the range rover. Its the vehicle that settles on the middle ground, the defender is the workhorse and has always been (quoted from land rover themselves) LRs toughest vehicle!


So old mate you think a Defender has better approach and departure angles and late model Disco's can't fit big tyres do you?

Check this out and weep!

[sctsprin]

It is live axle though for some weird reason ��

[TerryO]

Well spotted, yes it does, it is a limited edition model that was built for the South African market. ... :cool:

[ozscott]

Hey a real 4x 4

(Wasnt me).

Cheers

[LandyAndy]

It is live axle though for some weird reason ��

Thats a coil sprung version;););););)
Air suspension was only on the up-market models to start with.
Now the big secret is out,the D4 actually has a ladder chassis it will be ok as a new Defender chassis.Chuck a beer can body on it and it too will weigh less and carry more load than a D4:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p
Andrew

[Disco-tastic]

Fact: puma weighs 1/2 ton less carrys 1/4 ton more
So what your saying is that all up the D4 chassis can support more weight? (-1/2+1/4 = -1/4 )

Fact; puma roof can carry 150kg, d4 only half that
I thought this was for high speed stability. The D4 roof can actually carry much more than its rated for. From what i hear the defender cant go fast enough to tip over

Fact: puma has better body clearance.
Fact: puma has better angles of approach,exit, traversing etc
Fact: puma has the rear wheel located in a more appropriate location when off road. Its not under the car like a giant tampon
hmmm im not sure you understand what a tampon is or does...else you really didnt listen in anatomy class

Fact: puma has and fits bigger tyres if required
Fact: pumas chassis has lasted the test of time. Its robust and bloody strong and thats why miliatry forces around the world have embraced this vehicle as a machine of war. Everything from ambulances to assault vehicles

Hows that for BS?

Im not disputing the d4s strength but rather trying to highlight that the defender is tried and tested. You blokes make it sound like they are made of cheese. errr one guy had the traction control break his front diff when the brakes engaged. That sounds pretty soft to me!


The disco is the model that falls between the defender and the range rover. And thats what makes it soooooo good. Capability and comfort :D
Its the vehicle that settles on the middle ground, the defender is the workhorse and has always been (quoted from land rover themselves) LRs toughest vehicle!



Cheers

Dan