Defenders on "Car Sales."

[Pickles2]

I note that the number Defenders for sale on CarSales is now 69, which is the lowest I've seen.
As far as pricing is concerned, I would say that there's definitely been an upward movement in pricing for new & late model low k vehicles,....of course whether these "asking prices" are ever achieved, is another matter.
Not much change in older & higher k vehicles.
Pickles.

[YOLO110]

I trust 'Gracie' s recent disaster is not prompting you to sell now mate??? :(:(

Yes, late Oz models have been advertised higher... in the UK, they are indeed selling for higher prices than a year ago, but not sure if this is also happening in Oz?

It is however a non re-supplied market now so demand should do the usual economic thing I guess! :D

[cafe latte]

I think some people are being plain silly with the prices they are asking. The 4 door 130 that is on Gumtree was initially advertised at 14,000 which was too dear as it had done 360 odd thousand kays and it needed new doors as they were rusty, there was other rust too. Not a bad ute otherwise, but not worth 14,000 dollars, and after over 4,000 viewing and 7 weeks and no sale the seller has INCREASED the price to 16,000 :confused: If he could not sell it for 14, how does he think he will sell it for 16k!! Yes Defenders hold their value, but that is just crazy. Someone else wants 22k for a single cab 200ti with over 300,000km on the clock. I think right now the recent demise of the Defender has sent some people silly thinking their old heaps of rust are worth a fortune. The truth is all these over priced cars are on Gumtree and other sites unsold for weeks and weeks and weeks. Not a Defender, but you can buy a Mahindra for 25k new drive away and less for a demonstrator. Nobody is going to spend 22k on an old 200tdi unless they have lost their marbles big time.
I love Defenders, but their is a limit.
Chris

[Sly]

Dont worry , the market will readjust once all the hipsters fall out of love with defers and move onto the next trend.

[Didge]

Yep, I've been saying for ages the Defender will go the same way as the Series 3 - most will lose interest and only if, as Sly suggests, the Hipsters get into them, will they hold their value but my bet is they'll need to be 50 years old (like the split screen Kombis) before they regain their appeal and value :)

[Andy130]

I think the defenders have a better chance than the series 3, as the defender is the last in the line.With that said, only time will tell.

Prices are a bit crazy at the moment, but as we all know list price is not sale price. Agreed that once the hipsters rip a pocket on their silly low rise pants, they will move on :D

I probably overpaid a bit on the defender 130 I bought in November for $6,000 ( which had QLD rego, mechanically sound but needed a total rebuild to pass NSW roadworthy lol ) but the list price on that vehicle started at $13,500...took a while to get it to the 'right' price.

Fact is, If it wasn't a 130 defender I think really it was worth only what a wrecker would pay for it ( maybe $500 - $1,000?) but demand in the consumer market holds it at around $5,000 based on others I have seen sold in pieces needing total rebuilds.

There is demand in the market that will hold most defender prices up, but i think the future market winners will be in fully restored defenders.

[cafe latte]

Problem is I need a second car now as a work ute not in 6 months when the dust settles. I may end up having to buy a Mahindra. On the up side it will reduce the kays I will put on my Defender I suppose, but would rather have another Defender, but not for the money nutters want for them right now.
Chris

[cafe latte]

Then there is the odd sensible advert like this one.. I want a 4 door 130 or I would buy it myself. 1996 Land Rover Defender HCPU | Cars, Vans & Utes | Gumtree Australia Fremantle Area - Fremantle | 1106222969 (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/fremantle/cars-vans-utes/1996-land-rover-defender-hcpu/1106222969)
This will sell in a few days IMO. I cant understand why people have adverts running for weeks and months with no responses and still think the price they set is correct. Something is only worth what someone is prepared to pay..
Chris

[mekon76]

Good job we're a big island and not neighbouring anyone else with a Landy market. The amount of Defenders being stolen and stripped down in England is crazy at the moment. All for shifting part into Europe.

[ProjectDirector]

Well, I will be putting mine on the market next month as I don't get much use of it and it is a shame to just drive it on bitumen. So, the timing might good for me [emoji22]

[cafe latte]

Well, I will be putting mine on the market next month as I don't get much use of it and it is a shame to just drive it on bitumen. So, the timing might good for me [emoji22]

Not sure you will get any more than you would have before, the over priced ones are simply not selling, ones priced correctly are. There just seems to be a rather a lot of nutters about at the moment who think their rust heap is gold just because Defenders have been discontinued. The truth is 200 tdi's, 300 tdi's, TD5's, even the 2.4 where already discontinued so nothing has changed. Those who are spending 50 odd thousand on a new one (odd exception of course) are not shopping in the 300 tdi rust heap market so the new Puma being discontinued changes nothing as far as older Defenders go.
Chris

[manic]

LP
Not sure you will get any more than you would have before, the over priced ones are simply not selling, ones priced correctly are. There just seems to be a rather a lot of nutters about at the moment who think their rust heap is gold just because Defenders have been discontinued. The truth is 200 tdi's, 300 tdi's, TD5's, even the 2.4 where already discontinued so nothing has changed. Those who are spending 50 odd thousand on a new one (odd exception of course) are not shopping in the 300 tdi rust heap market so the new Puma being discontinued changes nothing as far as older Defenders go.
Chris

Don't agree. If you want a 'new' used defender in the next few years it will be a rebuild. Look at what happened in usa and subsequent demand for rebuilt rovers exported from the uk. If I had 50g for a defender without warranty I would source pre PUMA and overhaul it into the ultimate defender.

Not sure the effect will be as pronounced in Australia's micro market but surely a chance that older defender prices will stand tall for a number of years to come. Puma will hold value if special edition but may not be the most desirable for rebuild projects for quite some time, if ever.

[cafe latte]

LP

Don't agree. If you want a 'new' used defender in the next few years it will be a rebuild. Look at what happened in usa and subsequent demand for rebuilt rovers exported from the uk. If I had 50g for a defender without warranty I would source pre PUMA and overhaul it into the ultimate defender.

Not sure the effect will be as pronounced in Australia's micro market but surely a chance that older defender prices will stand tall for a number of years to come. Puma will hold value if special edition but may not be the most desirable for rebuild projects for quite some time, if ever.

Those who were shopping for a Puma will want a like new one these may go up. Heaps of junk wont. I love Land Rover but there are other brands too. Silly 20 for example for them to bits, but 16k for a piece of crap with 360 thousand kays on it is not realistic. The average 300k defenders is not realistic peoples money will go elsewhere to other brands.
Probably not the place to say this but Land Rover is not the only 4x4 in the world. The fact is that these overpriced Landies are for sale for weeks and months unsold means the buyers agree. Said it before and will say again something is only worth what someone is prepared to pay..And Land Rover owners and not stupid.
Chris

[manic]

Those who were shopping for a Puma will want a like new one these may go up. Heaps of junk wont. I love Land Rover but there are other brands too. Silly 20 for example for them to bits, but 16k for a piece of crap with 360 thousand kays on it is not realistic. The average 300k defenders is not realistic peoples money will go elsewhere to other brands.

pumas with 360k, heaps of junk? You could be right. We are talking about a second hand market, buyers who want a new car are not going to get a defender. True. But those that do want a defender can have one rebuilt better than new. And that's where the market is heading for the iconic defender.

If it is to become a niche market for enthusiasts they will see the older models are ripe for a new lease of life. With defenders you can bolt off the old, bolt on the new. When the old heaps are rebuilt to new, there may even be some 50k spenders interested again. Due to its iconic status and clued up following you should not be surprised if the older models hold value.

[steane]

Haha..."TDI rust heap market". You sound a bit frustrated Chris?

Unfortunately, most of the TDIs on the market are heaps. I found that out last year, when a friend was looking for one. But find a good one and they are just the best.:D

IMO there are two types of Defenders to avoid paying too much for;

1/. Worn out TDi and TD5 (better just to not buy at all)
2/. Near new Pumas

One will cost you a new Defender to fix and the other, when it's not at the dealership being fixed, is going to depreciate, just like the 2.4 before it has.

In their best month, possibly since the Puma was released, JLR sold 148 Deefers in Feb which was 60 more than the previous month. 148...in a country of 24 million people.

No-one really cares, except a handful of enthusiasts and a few hip dudes with Ned Kelly beards and tight pants.

If you want to know what is and will continue to happen with Defender prices/popularity/interest then look to Europe, and read the Landy mags.

[cafe latte]

I think good tdi's are worth the money and I would spend mine, but what I am saying is a truck that has done 360,000km is going to need a lot of work very soon. Then there is rust attention, gearbox, transfer, diffs etc. A tdi with those km is going to need a lot of money actually a tear down to be a long term reliable car. 2k for the engine if you can do it yourself and you hit no snags, maybe 1 k for the gearbox, 500 for the transfer all again if you are able to rebuild yourself. Glass, seats roof linings carpets, breaks drive line body, paint it is all doable but I have done this sort of resto and it comes to thousands if all goes well. 16k high km Defender will cost at least double actually much more to get it ok possibly much more much if you cant do it all yourself. 10 for a solid car with loish kays you are going to restore while you drive is another issue. Even 20k for all the work done, but sense has to prevail. I want a second Defender, but I still have my marbles and I will buy something else before I buy a heap of crap for a bundle of money.
Chris

[cafe latte]

pumas with 360k, heaps of junk? You could be right. We are talking about a second hand market, buyers who want a new car are not going to get a defender. True. But those that do want a defender can have one rebuilt better than new. And that's where the market is heading for the iconic defender.

If it is to become a niche market for enthusiasts they will see the older models are ripe for a new lease of life. With defenders you can bolt off the old, bolt on the new. When the old heaps are rebuilt to new, there may even be some 50k spenders interested again. Due to its iconic status and clued up following you should not be surprised if the older models hold value.
I was not talking about Pumas when I said 360,000km
Chris

[steane]

I think good tdi's are worth the money and I would spend mine, but what I am saying is a truck that has done 360,000km is going to need a lot of work very soon. Then there is rust attention, gearbox, transfer, diffs etc. A tdi with those km is going to need a lot of money actually a tear down to be a long term reliable car. 2k for the engine if you can do it yourself and you hit no snags, maybe 1 k for the gearbox, 500 for the transfer all again if you are able to rebuild yourself. Glass, seats roof linings carpets, breaks drive line body, paint it is all doable but I have done this sort of resto and it comes to thousands if all goes well. 16k high km Defender will cost at least double actually much more to get it ok possibly much more much if you cant do it all yourself. 10 for a solid car with loish kays you are going to restore while you drive is another issue. Even 20k for all the work done, but sense has to prevail. I want a second Defender, but I still have my marbles and I will buy something else before I buy a heap of crap for a bundle of money.
Chris

Couldnt agree more, except add thousands to your estimations to fix a bad one. I have said many times that there is no such thing as a cheap defender.

I think expecting to find a low km 20 year old commercial vehicle is a bit like looking for the holy grail. Id be looking for one that has been gone through and has had the major items rebuilt. Id rather that than paying a premium for something that is half worn out, with the exception of very low km ex CFS trucks, like the 130 ill see over easter with 25k kms on it (drives like new). Ive told fhem i want first option to buy!

Unfortunately, most TDIs on the market are being sold by people who cant afford to or dont want to afford to fix them up. Worn out rubbish essentially.

[cafe latte]

Here is my problem, this is low km (apparently) but it it is basically a pig rig there are few panels not dinged and it is 16k! My bet is it will take another 16k to make into a working truck. Looking for something loved for a fair price is it so much to ask!!
Oh hum glad I have my Puma, but this is getting annoying.
Chris

[juddy]

There does seem to be a lot of new Defenders priced higher than normal, and some priced even higher than normal, yet theres still a sector of the market that represents good value, agreed some sellers here seem to think that they can make a killing, some who have added a few extra $$ on top of book price might get their asking price, after all its still early days since production ended.

Good older 90/110/130 Land Rovers in good to excellent condition overseas are fetching high sums, prices can range from 10/30,000 UK pounds for one, some ones buying them. I think if you have an older one maybe not a 10 out of 10 but at least a 6 out of ten then you could get a good second hand price, it would be worth giving such a example some TLC to fetch good money, however spending thousands on a bag of nails is totally point less. Mid range TD5 should stay steady for well looked after examples and over time these will go up in value. I am sure al Pumas that are looked after will in the years to come.

We do have a very different market here and far less land rovers and people.

Puma 130's should hold good value against the other models.

[jimr1]

Good job we're a big island and not neighbouring anyone else with a Landy market. The amount of Defenders being stolen and stripped down in England is crazy at the moment. All for shifting part into Europe.
My brother sold his 110 wagon to a feller that lived a long way from him . Anyway two days later he phoned my brother to tell him it had been stolen from his drive . The paperwork hadn't even come though . My brother said the feller was totally gutted !!.. Jim

[Pickles2]

"Car Sales",...Now down to 62,....the lowest I've seen,...it was over a 100 not long ago?
Pickles.

[Iain_B]

I will be putting mine on the market as well. Now that my Unimog is on the road, I don't need two touring vehicles. Not sure if it is best to sell it rigged out with all the kit needed for a trip around Australia, ( two seater, 100l water tank, roof top tent, 255/85R16, 2000
w inverter, etc etc etc) or put it back to "normal" Defender mode, or maybe sell it with both options.

[Andrew86]

"Car Sales",...Now down to 62,....the lowest I've seen,...it was over a 100 not long ago?
Pickles.

I think a part of me would die if I ever sold mine. I'm not surprised there aren't many for sale - they're literally irreplaceable if the itch ever returns :eek:

I don't expect a lot of the $70k+ cars to sell anytime soon, but I don't think any of us have to worry too much about depreciation.

[Andrew86]

Down to 59 now...:o

[Shoogs]

I am just loving some of the comments made by sellers... and I quote...


"This car has a powerful 2.5 litre engine. It is looking to ignite your motoring passion. Only..."

[steane]

I would have thought the number of ads would be dropping as dealers run out of stock and have no Defenders to advertise for sale.

Or is that too simple an explanation?

[Pickles2]

I would have thought the number of ads would be dropping as dealers run out of stock and have no Defenders to advertise for sale.

Or is that too simple an explanation?
Not only new, plenty of used from both dealer & private in that figure.
Pickles.

[ezyrama]

Some joker had a MY16 heritage 90 going for a special price of $95k last week. Tell him he's dreaming😎


Sent from my iPhone using Quasi nuclear phase interlocked
dipthrong retarder technology.

[Shaza90]

Some joker had a MY16 heritage 90 going for a special price of $95k last week. Tell him he's dreaming😎


Sent from my iPhone using Quasi nuclear phase interlocked
dipthrong retarder technology.

$150,000 good price, so under valued his 90.

[Pickles2]

Some joker had a MY16 heritage 90 going for a special price of $95k last week. Tell him he's dreaming��


Sent from my iPhone using Quasi nuclear phase interlocked
dipthrong retarder technology.
Yeah, it's been on there for a fair while now.
An outrageous price,...or is it?!!.....It only takes one person, who REALLY wants one,....but it won't be me!
Pickles.

[cafe latte]

Yeah, it's been on there for a fair while now.
An outrageous price,...or is it?!!.....It only takes one person, who REALLY wants one,....but it won't be me!
Pickles.

Point is though as much as I love my Landy they are not the only form of transport out there or the only 4x4 up to the job. For sheer off road ability the Jeep Wrangler is hard to beat, but it is let down by its load carrying, but many buying a 90 wont worry about this too much and for 95k you could buy two Jeeps. The Toyota 75 series is expensive but it is not 95k and they are not bad 4x4's really then there will be the new Mahindra Scorpo that should be here next year or the year after at the latest. It will likely be 25k ish so you could buy three and still have 20k change. dont laugh they dont look half bad Mahindra Scorpio SUV | New Generation SUV In India (http://www.mahindrascorpio.com/)
Chris

[Andrew86]

the new Mahindra Scorpo that should be here next year or the year after at the latest. It will likely be 25k ish so you could buy three and still have 20k change. dont laugh

That's a bit like saying a Jaguar E-type isn't worth $100k because you could buy 10 Geely MKs for the same money. A true enough statement, but missing the point in my opinion.

The reason I love my Defender so much is because it isn't sensible, or particularly good value, and it's built in England, by hand, from metal, to last more than the length of its warranty. It was designed to be fit for purpose without consideration for pedestrian safety or the morning school run. It's an unapologetic one-fingered salute to everything that's wrong with cars today, and there's inherent value in that.

There is so much disposable junk on the road these days. You could go out and buy the latest and greatest from whatever third world country has the cheapest labor on the day, but a car is the second most valuable asset any of us will own and I don't see the point of knowingly buying rubbish. Unless it was someone else's money paying for it.

I think $95k for that little Heritage is money well spent, but it's money I don't have :(

[Mick_Marsh]

Point is though as much as I love my Landy they are not the only form of transport out there or the only 4x4 up to the job. For sheer off road ability the Jeep Wrangler is hard to beat, but it is let down by its load carrying, but many buying a 90 wont worry about this too much and for 95k you could buy two Jeeps. The Toyota 75 series is expensive but it is not 95k and they are not bad 4x4's really then there will be the new Mahindra Scorpo that should be here next year or the year after at the latest. It will likely be 25k ish so you could buy three and still have 20k change. dont laugh they dont look half bad Mahindra Scorpio SUV | New Generation SUV In India (http://www.mahindrascorpio.com/)
Chris
Chortle......


They look much like anything else on the market. Yet another one to choose from.

Oh, note the side mounted rear seats.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/03/540.jpg

[cafe latte]

Chortle......


They look much like anything else on the market. Yet another one to choose from.

Oh, note the side mounted rear seats.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/03/540.jpg

They wont be coming to Aus with those seats, it is the one thing stopping them now. Look, I am here on this forum because I own and love my new Defender, but I have now driven a Mahindra and the driving experience is not that much different to the Defender. Actually overall it has a huge amount in common with it. The new one I linked the the silly rear seats has a proper ladder chassis and diff lock so it is far from a run of the mill soft roader. No I wont ever sell my Defender, but I do also believe they are far from flawless either. No matter how true it is that they are so so wrong they are right and hand built etc etc the really is other stuff out there that will do the job and very well too. Also being hand built is probably to blame for the issues some of us have with output shafts failing and such like hand built has its negatives too..
Chris

[cafe latte]

That's a bit like saying a Jaguar E-type isn't worth $100k because you could buy 10 Geely MKs for the same money. A true enough statement, but missing the point in my opinion.

The reason I love my Defender so much is because it isn't sensible, or particularly good value, and it's built in England, by hand, from metal, to last more than the length of its warranty. It was designed to be fit for purpose without consideration for pedestrian safety or the morning school run. It's an unapologetic one-fingered salute to everything that's wrong with cars today, and there's inherent value in that.

There is so much disposable junk on the road these days. You could go out and buy the latest and greatest from whatever third world country has the cheapest labor on the day, but a car is the second most valuable asset any of us will own and I don't see the point of knowingly buying rubbish. Unless it was someone else's money paying for it.

I think $95k for that little Heritage is money well spent, but it's money I don't have :(

A Defender is not an E type, far from it, I have driven a couple of E types in my time, actually I thought they looked ok, but the drove horrible, fast but scary handling. A Defender is what it is, a commercial type 4x4 with few creature comforts, simple and effective why we all bought them.. Other cars though will do the same thing very well for far less than 95k. The Mahindra was a bit tongue in cheek, I expected a response, but the fact is they are good 4x4's and very reparable too with a growing accessory market too and very cheap indeed. All the reviews of them say they are tough as nails, very competent off road, but lacking in Toyota et al comforts.. Sounds familiar from Defender reviews I have read..
The Defender is an icon, I love mine, but I would never have spent 95k if that was the price and if I had the missus would have me committed.
Chris

[Andrew86]

A Defender is not an E type, far from it, I have driven a couple of E types in my time, actually I thought they looked ok, but the drove horrible, fast but scary handling. A Defender is what it is, a commercial type 4x4 with few creature comforts, simple and effective why we all bought them..

Of course it isn't an E Type, but the Defender is an emotional purchase in the same sense. That's why the community is so strong and everyone waves at each other, because only people who love Defenders buy Defenders. Which is good; it keeps the riff raff out ;)

Looking at a Defender objectively, it's hard to see why anyone would buy one today and it's easy to see why production ceased. They're slow, noisy, relatively uncomfortable and lack even the most basic modern features, but people still bought them for reasons that won't make a lot of sense to a Prado owner.

Those emotional, subjective elements are the reason they hold their value so well. There's a premium attached to the perceived value of a Defender that accounts for things that can't be quantified in rational terms.

Similarly, a new Ford Focus is faster than an E-Type, handles corners with more confidence, has a huge array of modern creature comforts and costs 90% less. None of those Jag owners are going to care though, or feel any less proud of their cars.

The great thing with Defenders is that they're just as iconic and emotive as many classic cars, with the added benefit of a new car warranty and far less risk.

It only takes one fanatic with deep pockets for that $95k Heritage to sell. I'm sure someone out there will buy it if the seller is patient enough.

[MrLandy]

Looking at a Defender objectively, it's hard to see why anyone would buy one today and it's easy to see why production ceased. They're slow, noisy, relatively uncomfortable and lack even the most basic modern features, but people still bought them for reasons that won't make a lot of sense to a Prado owner.

My 2014 Defender is neither slow, noisy or uncomfortable. It has all basic modern features I require including great sound system, aircon, heating, robust interior. On the contrary, I find the Prado (and 200 series and all dual cab ute clones) to be cumbersome, uncomfortable, ugly and lacking in many features of a Defender, including but not limited to: robustness, command driving position, poise on and off road, aluminium body, HD chassis, low centre of gravity, manouverability, hose-out ability, very comfortable supportive seats / upright seating position, load carrying ability, flat sided practical box shape, design character and price.

[cafe latte]

Of course it isn't an E Type, but the Defender is an emotional purchase in the same sense. That's why the community is so strong and everyone waves at each other, because only people who love Defenders buy Defenders. Which is good; it keeps the riff raff out ;)

Looking at a Defender objectively, it's hard to see why anyone would buy one today and it's easy to see why production ceased. They're slow, noisy, relatively uncomfortable and lack even the most basic modern features, but people still bought them for reasons that won't make a lot of sense to a Prado owner.

Those emotional, subjective elements are the reason they hold their value so well. There's a premium attached to the perceived value of a Defender that accounts for things that can't be quantified in rational terms.

Similarly, a new Ford Focus is faster than an E-Type, handles corners with more confidence, has a huge array of modern creature comforts and costs 90% less. None of those Jag owners are going to care though, or feel any less proud of their cars.

The great thing with Defenders is that they're just as iconic and emotive as many classic cars, with the added benefit of a new car warranty and far less risk.

It only takes one fanatic with deep pockets for that $95k Heritage to sell. I'm sure someone out there will buy it if the seller is patient enough.

I actually think the Defender is the most comfortable car I have ever sat in the upright seating position is good for hours and hours, but normal cars and other 4x4's get very uncomfortable really quickly. The Mahindra though has a seating position exactly the same and similar simplicity which is why I am buying one for the farm.
Also I can put more kays on the cheap Mahindra and less on my beloved Defender :D
Chris

[steane]

The Defender rose coloured glasses are strong in this thread.

Is there a pill some of you blokes can take to stop the fizzing?

[cafe latte]

I am actively looking for a project 300 tdi 130 now, I thought if I am going to replace most things anyway I may as well get a buggered one that is solid deep down.
I have never been a car person but Defender are kind of addictive. The Mahindra will fill a gap in our transport, but long term a Defender build I think is the way to go. I dont want to pay 25k for someone elses stuff ups I would rather thinking about it do it myself and get it right.
Chris

[Andrew86]

My 2014 Defender is neither slow, noisy or uncomfortable. It has all basic modern features I require

I don't disagree, my 110 has most of the things I need too. But $50k buys a lot more than basic features these days and to most people the Defender falls well short of the mark. Airbags, cruise control and a turning circle requiring less than 6 lanes are expected as an absolute minimum today.

As for performance, dynamics, noise and comfort - I guess that's all relative.

[Andy130]

I am actively looking for a project 300 tdi 130 now, I thought if I am going to replace most things anyway I may as well get a buggered one that is solid deep down.
I have never been a car person but Defender are kind of addictive. The Mahindra will fill a gap in our transport, but long term a Defender build I think is the way to go. I dont want to pay 25k for someone elses stuff ups I would rather thinking about it do it myself and get it right.
Chris

look forward to following that build thread mate

[cafe latte]

look forward to following that build thread mate

Thanks Andy, your own build inspired me, but the number of Defenders for sale right now it might take a while to get started, all good things though come to those that wait. I will make do with learning what I can from your own thread in the mean time :D
Chris

[MrLandy]

But $50k buys a lot more than basic features these days.

Not in a heavy duty work vehicle it doesn't. Add cruise control and Defenders were still far less expensive than Toyota 78 for example. No airbags yes. But all a moot point now in terms of new vehicles until next Defender ...if it ever materialises.

Yes 35-50K will get you into a light duty ute with all mod cons. They're great for mostly urban work. I've tried one, but it wasn't up to the job in terms of robustness for HD bush work.

[snowmonkey]

Hey all. First time blogger, first time defender buyer. You all seem to know your stuff and love your land rovers. I'm in the market for a early model 130. As I have just started looking I wasn't aware of high prices of these trucks atm. I knew they were exy but I just thought that that's what they are worth. Seeing trucks with over 300kms for near 20k. I am looking at one atm, 2000 model 130 with just 46k on it for 25k. Has anyone seen it, it's on carsales? It's an ex fire services truck hence the low kms, but I'm worried about it having high engine hours. Is this something to consider, I literally have no clue about cars? I'm thinking high hours equals high kms but with wear on the engine only. Basically, is it worth a look for the price?

[cafe latte]

Hey all. First time blogger, first time defender buyer. You all seem to know your stuff and love your land rovers. I'm in the market for a early model 130. As I have just started looking I wasn't aware of high prices of these trucks atm. I knew they were exy but I just thought that that's what they are worth. Seeing trucks with over 300kms for near 20k. I am looking at one atm, 2000 model 130 with just 46k on it for 25k. Has anyone seen it, it's on carsales? It's an ex fire services truck hence the low kms, but I'm worried about it having high engine hours. Is this something to consider, I literally have no clue about cars? I'm thinking high hours equals high kms but with wear on the engine only. Basically, is it worth a look for the price?

I am the first officer of my local brigade. Ex fire trucks can be a good buy as they generally live in the fire shed, but when they are out we are not allowed turn them off so they spend a lot of time running going no where . 46k is nothing but the truck will have done at the very least double that in real terms maybe more if it was in my area.
Chris

[snowmonkey]

I am the first officer of my local brigade. Ex fire trucks can be a good buy as they generally live in the fire shed, but when they are out we are not allowed turn them off so they spend a lot of time running going no where . 46k is nothing but the truck will have done at the very least double that in real terms maybe more if it was in my area.
Chris

Thanks for that mate. Yeah I figured if they were taken out they would have been run all day, didn't know they weren't allowed to be turned off though. Not sure how you can tell. I have to travel to see it so I am going to get Land Rover to do a pre inspection first before I fly down to look at it and drive it back. If it's got low engine hours, happy days.
Jezza.

[cafe latte]

Thanks for that mate. Yeah I figured if they were taken out they would have been run all day, didn't know they weren't allowed to be turned off though. Not sure how you can tell. I have to travel to see it so I am going to get Land Rover to do a pre inspection first before I fly down to look at it and drive it back. If it's got low engine hours, happy days.
Jezza.
Maybe use the fact you know they need to stay running when being used as a bargaining point :)
Chris

[Pickles2]

Up to 75 today?!
I've noticed a definite increase in ASKING price for late model low K units, BUT some that have been listed for a while, haven't sold.
Also many dealers are becoming cunning, with their "Ring for a price" wording.
All listed new are 90s I reckon,...couldn't see a "New" 110.
Pickles.

[Eevo]

supply and demand

no demand, no supply :p

[Geary]

A dealer posted a cancelled order 110 wagon 2016 build for $65k in grey with sawtooths leather sunroof and a few other bits. Didn't last - advertised Wednesday arvo sold by Thursday morning. Closest comparable is 15 build with 8k kms and $10-20k more.

[Geary]

The heritage 90 @ $95k was marked as sold and now there's one for $110k. Shame - I quite like the grasmere green.

[tailslide]

2015 Land Rover Defender MY16 110 (4x4) Black 6 Speed Manual Wagon | Cars, Vans & Utes | Gumtree Australia Canning Area - Bentley | 1108067703 (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/bentley/cars-vans-utes/2015-land-rover-defender-my16-110-4x4-black-6-speed-manual-wagon/1108067703)

I wonder what someone would pay for a MY16 with 300km on the clock?:angel: It might get me into D4 territory.:eek:

p.s. My 7 day old 110 is not in the market, and won't be for a long time.:p

Cheers
Ron

[Geary]

Can I ask what the typical sale price is for the 90 and 110? Redbook seems off I think.

[MrLandy]

Can I ask what the typical sale price is for the 90 and 110? Redbook seems off I think.

Red Book is always off, it's just a computer algorithm I reckon. Typical price varies across so many factors.

[Geary]

Such as? Example price/spec?

[YOLO110]

Blimey!

I sold my 3000 km MY15 110 with loads of extras for just $57k only 6 months ago!!! And that was for $8k more than I paid for it new!!! :angel:

Today, it sounds like it would get $75K!!! :(

Bubble? (POP!) I think so...

[cafe latte]

Blimey!

I sold my 3000 km MY15 110 with loads of extras for just $57k only 6 months ago!!! And that was for $8k more than I paid for it new!!! :angel:

Today, it sounds like it would get $75K!!! :(

Bubble? (POP!) I think so...

I dont care if they start selling for 175k, nobody is having mine.
Chris

[YOLO110]

Ditto!

Never selling my 90 now!! :D

[Geary]

Check out this Land Rover Defender.
https://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2015/OAG-AD-12584103

$73k for a my 15 with 8k kms YOLO but then that's the advertised price not sale price. I was about to go look at a 2009 model for $35k a week back then someone told the bloke it's a collectors item now so price is $48k. Sounds like that's close to the new price for a 7year old car.

[Pickles2]

G'Day Geary.
Yes, the vehicle that you mention is "advertised" at a pretty high price, even though it does have some nice options like sawtooths & Premium seats.
So, what year/model is it that you're after,..90 or 110, & what price range are you looking at?
There's still some reasonably priced ones out there.
Pickles.

[aj90]

2015 Land Rover Defender Heritage Manual 4x4 MY16 (http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2015/SSE-AD-3932993/?Cr=0)

Yep $110K. Good Lord is all I can say!

[Geary]

G'Day Geary.
Yes, the vehicle that you mention is "advertised" at a pretty high price, even though it does have some nice options like sawtooths & Premium seats.
So, what year/model is it that you're after,..90 or 110, & what price range are you looking at?
There's still some reasonably priced ones out there.
Pickles.
G'day picked, I'm after a reliable 110 around the $35k mark but more interested in value or bang for buck than budget and not in a real rush.

[Pickles2]

G'day picked, I'm after a reliable 110 around the $35k mark but more interested in value or bang for buck than budget and not in a real rush.
No worries.
100% correct, do not rush,...because the "right" one will come along.
Anyway, if ya're interested in a 110, check out the one at ULR, they've got a red Puma 110 about 80ks I think, anyway check out their website & have a look.
Pickles.

[Geary]

Cheers Pickles. Sorry about the autocorrect I tried three times and still buggered it up. To make things a little tougher I'm spread between Darwin and Newcastle and would need the car in Darwin where defenders are thin on the ground. There's a nice looking 2011 with some bits on it and 100k km in cairns I think he wants around $40k just not sure how well it's been looked after and no log books.

[Pickles2]

Cheers Pickles. Sorry about the autocorrect I tried three times and still buggered it up. To make things a little tougher I'm spread between Darwin and Newcastle and would need the car in Darwin where defenders are thin on the ground. There's a nice looking 2011 with some bits on it and 100k km in cairns I think he wants around $40k just not sure how well it's been looked after and no log books.
Just had another look at the 110 at ULR.
It's a rare one, a hardtop (2 doors), quite rare, has a H.D Winch, Bullbar, Driving lights etc,..looks pretty original to me.
Pickles.

[Geary]

No worries.
100% correct, do not rush,...because the "right" one will come along.
Anyway, if ya're interested in a 110, check out the one at ULR, they've got a red Puma 110 about 80ks I think, anyway check out their website & have a look.
Pickles.

Yeah spotted that on car sales and it looks good but it's a 2dr which wouldn't suit.

[Shoogs]

I would be buying something close to 25 years old and converting to LH drive, and sending to the States... hmmm my Camel is 21 this year...


Land Rover Defender 110 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Land-Rover-Defender-110-/222062777824?forcerrptr=true&hash=item33b3f915e0:g:~WAAAOSwJb9Wp9fG&item=222062777824)

[Mick_Marsh]

I would be buying something close to 25 years old and converting to LH drive, and sending to the States... hmmm my Camel is 21 this year...


Land Rover Defender 110 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Land-Rover-Defender-110-/222062777824?forcerrptr=true&hash=item33b3f915e0:g:~WAAAOSwJb9Wp9fG&item=222062777824)
That's an '83!

[hey_burgs]

I would be buying something close to 25 years old and converting to LH drive, and sending to the States... hmmm my Camel is 21 this year...


Land Rover Defender 110 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Land-Rover-Defender-110-/222062777824?forcerrptr=true&hash=item33b3f915e0:g:~WAAAOSwJb9Wp9fG&item=222062777824)

Apart from the outrageous price, there's something strange about this, notice how photshopped some of the pictures are? For instance, this side view that totally seems to be missing the 'Puma' style bonnet.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/03/185.jpg
And next pic...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/03/186.jpg

I have a friend in Orgeon who had a quote done up for a restored '83 Defender with a TD5 from Arkonik in the Uk. 100k all up. Needless to say he didn't go through with it. I did see on Instagram recently a guy in New York who imported a Perentie from QLD. This would probably be the more cost effective option of getting one in the US, but I don't know what hoops one would have to jump through.

[Shoogs]

Its America, I am surprised they just haven't 3D printed them as required...

[Pickles2]

Up to 73 listed today I see.
Definitely some unrealistic upward movement on pricing, including one hopeful owner who is listing his brand new Heritage 90 at $109K?!
Pickles.

[Geary]

He generously dropped that down from his original listing price of $110k. Doesn't look like any are moving so I believe the sale price is relatively unchanged but it's frustrating that the asking price is unreasonable. There's 90's listed in the $70's

[Andrew86]

Doesn't look like any are moving so I believe the sale price is relatively unchanged but it's frustrating that the asking price is unreasonable. There's 90's listed in the $70's

I think it's too early to be asking those sorts of prices. People will be watching and waiting to see what happens for the next couple of years before deciding what they think these cars are worth.

[Greg4427]

Even Defenders that have quite a few km's on them from about 2011 on are asking for serious money! You wonder why the Heritage only dropped a grand really lol

[PAT303]

Three year old Defenders are selling for there original price here in WA. Pat

[Andrew86]

Three year old Defenders are selling for there original price here in WA. Pat

Are they selling? Mr Barbagallo is certainly trying his luck, but I haven't seen a lot of movement in the lot.

[battlejackal]

There are definitely some with prices well above average but for the most part they don't seem to be selling. Not everyone is silly though and you can still find reasonable deals.

[snowmonkey]

Hey all, so what is a realistic price for a 2000 model 130 with say 200k on it? They seem to be advertised for around 20k.

[battlejackal]

Hey all, so what is a realistic price for a 2000 model 130 with say 200k on it? They seem to be advertised for around 20k.
Completely dependent on its condition.

[Greg4427]

There was an Orange 2015 MY 16 Adventure for sale for $75K that has gone, pity cos I liked that one. However, way too expensive for me and I'm more than happy with "Daisy" my 2014 Defender :p

[David Black 90]

Defenders are overtaking landcruisers for most hedging vehicles on australian market, even their lifespan(especially engines) maybe not as long as LCs. And it also maybe the most appriaceted European vehicle.

[Geary]

My patience has worn out I think. Starting to look at a disco or a DC ute I guess but not too enthusiastic with the idea. Any 110's newer than 2008 model are $40k plus up to a ridiculous $90k (and that's not even considering the heritage models!). Maybe next year hey.

[MrLandy]

Defenders were always under priced / under valued IMO. Compared to the (few) other serious heavy duty 4x4's on the market they were an absolute bargain at $50K new. $20K+ under price of Toyota 70 series. Chassis and body longevity / fuel economy / superior suspension and handling easily out weighs cost of Tojo V8. ...Chickens coming home to roost?

[YOLO110]

Yes... they were also cheaper here in OZ than the equivalent models in the UK!!

[Pickles2]

Still in Sydney Pete?.....When's "The Big Journey" happening?
Regards, Martin.

[YOLO110]

Looks like July now mate...

Co-driver not available until then... but my 90 will have gone up in value more however! LOL!

[Is Vic There]

As you might I bought an 90 Adventure and have clocked up a huge 81km since purchase in December, didn't buy it as an investment, but did have it at the back of my mind that it would go up in value since its the very last of this iconic vehicle. Just not had time to drive it, have the Disco for everyday, the 2a that I am restoring with the lad and have just bought a 10 seater series 3, I also have 9 motorbikes that I work on at the weekend! That with the everyday jobs round the house there's just no time! I've come to the conclusion that the 90 will one day be my retirement car!

[MrLandy]

As you might I bought an 90 Adventure and have clocked up a huge 81km since purchase in December, didn't buy it as an investment, but did have it at the back of my mind that it would go up in value since its the very last of this iconic vehicle. Just not had time to drive it, have the Disco for everyday, the 2a that I am restoring with the lad and have just bought a 10 seater series 3, I also have 9 motorbikes that I work on at the weekend! That with the everyday jobs round the house there's just no time! I've come to the conclusion that the 90 will one day be my retirement car!

Interesting, does that mean you don't love driving your Adventure 90?! Maybe you should drive it now and keep your Disco for retirement!? 😜

[defmec]

I bought a 2002 130 td5 with 70 000ks for $27 000 good condition 2 years ago. At the time i was feeling that i payed too much. Now i have stopped driving it to work as i don't want to clock up the ks because of its value. Realestate is not worth what people pay for it in Australia. So why should defenders be any different. Supply and demand :D

[manic]

For Pete's sake remember what you bought it for. Use them and abuse them! Defenders when they get tired are rebuilt on galvanised chassis, completely overhauled good as new so don't worry about the kms. What's the point of buying a td5 for 20+ grand and then selling it for around same value 5 years later having not used it. Unless you have a limited edition and seriously bubble wrapping it for dedicated investment you are just wasting time. As they say: One life, live it.

[steane]

Unless you have a limited edition and seriously bubble wrapping it for dedicated investment you are just wasting time.

I think that would be a waste of time as well to be honest.

[The ho har's]

We sort of washed our 130 today, first time since last year after driving to Vic, it is sort of shiny :) I think the value has gone up 10 fold now :D:wasntme:

Mrs hh:angel:

[Is Vic There]

I think that would be a waste of time as well to be honest.

Only time will tell, who knows what they'll be worth in say five years.
I can only go on my experience with motorbikes, but any of the "cool" two strokes sold in the 70's and 80's are worth stupid money these days.
Look at M1 & 2 Escorts and see if you can buy a decent RS1600 or RS2000 for under $40,000, have a look at the prices in the UK, madness.

[MrLandy]

Only time will tell, who knows what they'll be worth in say five years.
I can only go on my experience with motorbikes, but any of the "cool" two strokes sold in the 70's and 80's are worth stupid money these days.
Look at M1 & 2 Escorts and see if you can buy a decent RS1600 or RS2000 for under $40,000, have a look at the prices in the UK, madness.

Ah, so you are keeping your Adventure 90 as an investment?

My late 2014 shiny Indus Silver 110 has already done 50,000km. It's first 5,000km was straight up the Strezlecki Track to Innamincka and Coongie Lakes. No molly coddling here. 'Adventure' that's what Defenders are built for, not museums of the third age!

[noyakfat]

I reckon just use it for its intended purpose, but look after it well as you go. Service regularly, fix little things before they become big things, carefully consider off-road options and don't just blast full noise through an obstacle and give it a bit of a clean once in a while :)

[Is Vic There]

Ah, so you are keeping your Adventure 90 as an investment?

My late 2014 shiny Indus Silver 110 has already done 50,000km. It's first 5,000km was straight up the Strezlecki Track to Innamincka and Coongie Lakes. No molly coddling here. 'Adventure' that's what Defenders are built for, not museums of the third age!

Haha, don't know, might be might not! Good for you for taking your up the Strezlecki track, hope you had a good time, it is your car after all and you can do what you want with it.

Might change the blanket on my museum piece at the weekend, I'll let you know what colour I wrap her with lol!

[Is Vic There]

No molly coddling here



Plenty here lol

Just for you MrLandy!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/259.jpg (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/parkersint/media/IMG_5814_zpscxtebbb0.jpg.html)

[steane]

Only time will tell, who knows what they'll be worth in say five years.
I can only go on my experience with motorbikes, but any of the "cool" two strokes sold in the 70's and 80's are worth stupid money these days.
Look at M1 & 2 Escorts and see if you can buy a decent RS1600 or RS2000 for under $40,000, have a look at the prices in the UK, madness.

I agree, that it is possible that a Defender will be worth quite a bit when it is nearly 50 years old, or it could be worth nothing, depending on where the automotive world is then. The landscape is going to be very different and quite what will become of fossil fuel burning non-autonomous vehicles will be very interesting.

A Defender would make an excellent garden ornament but you wouldn't want to pay too much for one if that's it's only possible use.

I personally don't see the last LE Defenders as being special enough to command a serious premium, although I'm sure they will command a premium of some sort. I actually think they were a missed opportunity by LR. They could have been seriously cool, with improved engine performance, and accessories like serious barwork, winches, Koni or Bilstein suspension, a sizable bespoke LE hunting knife, a gun rack for the Sako Bavarian, a Sako Bavarian, and a fake beard for the driver made from genuine Silverback pubic hair.

A bit of Adventure added to the 'Adventure'.

Prices look silly now but I think people forget that what you see on Carsales is asking prices, not selling prices. People can ask whatever they want. I saw a single cab Defender ute being offered for $60k+ recently. You'd have to be cashed-up, rather drunk and vertically challenged to actually buy it and live with it. Ad said it was real rare...but only because no-one ever wanted to buy one.

I could be wrong though. Often I am ;) :D

[Is Vic There]

Great post Steane
I'm going to look on eBay for a fake beard made from genuine Silverback pubic hair, funny.

Being honest, I'd never thought of buying a Land Rover but did have an affection for them from many years in the British forces. When LR announced that it was the end I put my name down for one, that took nearly 12 months and I was close to cancelling twice. In the end took delivery but by that time I'd bought a Disco TD5 and a series 2a, don't know what happened just sort of got hold of me! Then a week ago I bought a 10 seater series 3, don't know why just did! Never owned one now I have four!

I have no intension of doing any serious off road, been to Fraser in the Disco but going outback does not interest me, other than that taking a trailer to the dump thats as much off road as I want to do!

So why do I buy them? I just like them, like the shape, like that there an aluminium body and hand made and like tinkering with them. Oh and I'm no hipster either!

[Landi]

I love my 2015 110 and use it how it's intended to be used every single weekend; however, with prices going up and up and up, I sometimes can't help but think that my defender is now probably worth as much as a low km D4...this is of course assuming that these cars on carsales are actually selling for their list price...which I'm not entirely convinced is what's happening

[cafe latte]

Plenty here lol

Just for you MrLandy!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/259.jpg (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/parkersint/media/IMG_5814_zpscxtebbb0.jpg.html)

Showed missus your pic she is now taking the pee out of me asking if I want a sheet off the bed for mine :D
Chris

[manic]

True, some Nordic country recently tried to ban fossil fuel cars from the road by 2025. They scaled back to prohibiting sale of new cars only. Not long now and they will be banned from Australian cities. I imported my TDI defender from the UK just before they banned them (no dpf) from entering London. I wouldn't have been able to sell it to anyone near me.

[Is Vic There]

Showed missus your pic she is now taking the pee out of me asking if I want a sheet off the bed for mine :D
Chris


The Mrs has given me the kids old throws which are soft and fluffy, next month when its time to start her I'll put them on as its starting to get a tad nippy of a night time now!

[MrLandy]

Plenty here lol

Just for you MrLandy!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/259.jpg (http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/parkersint/media/IMG_5814_zpscxtebbb0.jpg.html)

Ha ha, nice! Thanks 👍. Is that a Landy sized electric blanket, plugged in to the mega transformer on the right? ...he/she looks happy, lights on ...for now. But cooped up in the garage for long periods will not be so happy!

Mine aren't happy even if I go anywhere near a car wash!

Yep reckon I need a silver back pubic hair blanket too... It's the philosophy of Land Rover and design I enjoy the most, so we have that in common 😎. My desert sojourns are not heroic in the slightest. Simplicity, least possible mods and respectful (of diverse cultures, country and vehicle) adventuring is my modus operandi.

Cheers

[Pickles2]

Well, some "hopeful" Defender sellers are definitely "trying" to be a bit "greedy",.......don't know whether they're actually succeeding in their endeavours though, as some of those listed vehicles have been listed for quite a while, & are becoming very familiar to me!
Pickles.

[Tombie]

Not putting kilometers on your Landy is like not having sex with your partner to keep her fresh for the next person.

[Eevo]

Not putting kilometers on your Landy is like not having sex with your partner to keep her fresh for the next person.

are you selling Tombie?

[ozscott]

I doubt they are selling anywhere near the price advertised. People are trying to gouge based on the cost of a heritage. Fair one but doubt it will work.

Cheers

[loanrangie]

Yeah , 2-4yo old deefers for what their new price was .

Sent from my GT-I9300 using AULRO mobile app

[Geary]

FWIW I ended up getting impatient and picked up an MY16 D4 SE for what some are asking for their Defenders. Final straw was the MY16 90 that went up for sale for $75k and the owner admitted he had driven it home and put $20k on top of the sale price. Then there was the fella that accused car yards of giving "stupid offers" then asking more than retail for a 5 year old car. I'll likely end up passing the D4 onto the wife if/when the defender prices return to this realm.

[MrLandy]

FWIW I ended up getting impatient and picked up an MY16 D4 SE for what some are asking for their Defenders. Final straw was the MY16 90 that went up for sale for $75k and the owner admitted he had driven it home and put $20k on top of the sale price. Then there was the fella that accused car yards of giving "stupid offers" then asking more than retail for a 5 year old car. I'll likely end up passing the D4 onto the wife if/when the defender prices return to this realm.

Sounds like a good strategy Geary. But it will be interesting to see how much prices come back down, or not. I'd be interested to hear your opinion on the driving experience of your new Discovery in comparison to the Defender and whether/why the Defender is not of equal value to a Discovery? Obviously the driving experience between them is going to be markedly different, but is the driving experience of one worth more money than the other? What price the Defender wave? What price that particular Defender quality we are all unable to adequately describe? To me that's worth more than 6 airbags and air suspension, etc. I know I much prefer the driving experience of a Defender over a Discovery.

[Pickles2]

Wifey didn't initially like the Disco,.....had no time for them at all, didn't like the shape, didn't like anything,.......until she drove one!!
We were lent one when Gracie was being serviced & Karen drove it home,...and she was mightily impressed with the driving experience,.....whilst she still prefers Gracie (for "Defender" reasons!), she now has a different view on Discos.
As far as Defender values are concerned, yes, as I've said, there are some unrealistically greedy people out there, trying to make a quick buck,....but there are some reasonable buys too. I reckon that the high priced units will not sell, causing these owners to have a downwards rethink, if they REALLY want to sell.
Longer term,...I believe that low k, original, non abused examples with books etc, will be in demand, and pricing will reflect that,...but not $20K over new etc. I reckon that at the moment, if ya had a Defender that was as new, under 12 ms old & 10Ks, you could possibly get ya money back, providing ya weren't ripped off when ya bought it?
Pickles.

[defender_i_hardly_know_er]

I'm thinking of selling mine but I don't know what I would replace it with. So it stays for now...

[MrLandy]

I'm thinking of selling mine but I don't know what I would replace it with. So it stays for now...

Nothing else compares unless you've got the cash for a bush spec G Wagen. Which incidentally, makes a Defender at any price a bargain.

[ozscott]

They were priced just right...now its absurd. They will come back AND no one who follows LR would pay the RECENT asking prices for a stocker 110. I love Defenders too, but not at current prices over a modded D2 4.6 with 5 speed manual i dont. You really can have the best of both worlds. My son loves Defenders but wont go past a D1 with mild modding for value, rugged off road ability and comfort. If Defenders were at the prices they were until this latest silly hike he might stretch to a Deefer just for the lust factor.

I also think the best Defenders were made a few years ago and by the end of production they were weaker.

Cheers

[Andrew86]

Sounds like a good strategy Geary. But it will be interesting to see how much prices come back down, or not.

Prices would only come down if they became less appealing, and I can't ever see that happening.

Late 90s/early 2000s Defenders in the US and Canada routinely sell for US$50k+ and have been doing so for years. One in good condition will push six figures.

Here's one I snapped earlier this week in downtown Vancouver...Everyone loves these things.

[steane]

Prices would only come down if they became less appealing, and I can't ever see that happening.

Late 90s/early 2000s Defenders in the US and Canada routinely sell for US$50k+ and have been doing so for years. One in good condition will push six figures.

Here's one I snapped earlier this week in downtown Vancouver...Everyone loves these things.

The US has a 400 million population and about 12 NAS Defenders to go around and the only ones being let in as imports are 25 years old or older. Its supply and demand. Australia has a 25m population and all but 60 of them wanted to buy a new defender each month when they were being made. Many of those would have been via business finance, and that area of demand will slow over the next 5 years as financing secondhand ones gets too difficult. Thats when all cars drop their bundles as far as resale goes.

The supply is there at inflated prices but the demand isnt. The prices will eventually drop back to match the demand.

The current nonsense with the prices of some defenders is being driven by scalpers hunting for a wood duck.They might find one or two but most people will just buy the sensibly priced cars.

[Andrew86]

The supply is there at inflated prices but the demand isnt. The prices will eventually drop back to match the demand.

The supply isn't there anymore, though. There are fewer than 100 cars for sale in the country. As you say, it's supply and demand. Supply won't grow anymore, so falling demand will be the only way prices will ever fall significantly and I can't see the appeal of the Defender diminishing any time soon.

That was my point with the North American example. Despite all the barriers and costs associated with acquiring a Defender, people are still doing it. Grey imports and RHD cars aren't uncommon, I've seen half a dozen in BC in the last fortnight.

I agree that there are some dreamers among us, but the days of bargain bin Defenders are numbered.

[steane]

The supply isn't there anymore, though. There are fewer than 100 cars for sale in the country. As you say, it's supply and demand. Supply won't grow anymore, so falling demand will be the only way prices will ever fall significantly and I can't see the appeal of the Defender diminishing any time soon.

That was my point with the North American example. Despite all the barriers and costs associated with acquiring a Defender, people are still doing it. Grey imports and RHD cars aren't uncommon, I've seen half a dozen in BC in the last fortnight.

I agree that there are some dreamers among us, but the days of bargain bin Defenders are numbered.

That's just new car supply and there was never any real 'demand' for them until the last couple of months.

The supply is there in the second hand market now, particularly for the newer cars. 100 cars for sale at any one time will well outstrip the demand at that time. Defenders are popular and plenty of people think they are cool but only a handful will pay money to own and drive one.

I also think plenty of people will have recently bought them and thought "what the..." and they'll be back on the market over the next year or two. If anything, there will soon (next couple of years) be a bigger range of 2.2s for willing buyers to choose from than ever before. Might be why the scalpers are having a go now.

I think prices will always be strong and will rise but the current nonsense will settle down, it's just opportunists having a go.

[scarry]

I think prices will always be strong and will rise but the current nonsense will settle down, it's just opportunists having a go.

Exactly,Defenders have always held their value well,compared to any other European built vehicle,including LR variants.

Anyone who thinks they are worth the same sort of price as a late model D4,is dreaming.

There is actually a new 90 at the local dealer here waiting for a home.

[MrLandy]

So no one thinks a Defender is worth the same as a Discovery? Does that mean everyone would prefer a Discovery if they had the cash / would buy a Discovery instead if they had always been the same price as each other?

[Andrew86]

The supply is there in the second hand market now, particularly for the newer cars. 100 cars for sale at any one time will well outstrip the demand at that time. Defenders are popular and plenty of people think they are cool but only a handful will pay money to own and drive one.

There are 28 Defenders currently for sale that are less than three years old. Only 12 are 110s. Perhaps our interpretations of plentiful supply differ, but that doesn't leave me confident that I'll be able to easily replace my bus with a comparable example if something were to happen to it (God forbid).

As I said, I don't disagree that some of those $90k cars are aiming a bit high, but what these cars are worth is now determined by what people are willing to pay. Not what a Redbook estimation says based on historical depreciation.

None of this really matters to me, because I doubt I'll ever be able to part with mine. I'll be following with interest though.

[MrLandy]

I think my 2014 Defender is worth more than a D4. It will outlast a D4 and its character, simplicity and robustness all add up to a better design IMO. They were under priced for the past 5-10 years, which is why I went into debt to buy one while I could. Nothing else compares. Anyone who thinks a new model Defender (if it ever materialises) will be $50K new is dreaming.

[scarry]

So no one thinks a Defender is worth the same as a Discovery? Does that mean everyone would prefer a Discovery if they had the cash / would buy a Discovery instead if they had always been the same price as each other?

That would be a good question to put on here.

If new,or late model, Defenders(any model) would have been a similar price to a new,or late model, D4(poverty pack would be at least $80k upwards),who would have bought a Defender?

At a guess i would have said Defender sales would have taken a massive hit.:o

Price would have driven many of the sales.

No one is saying a D4 would have been purchased,as there are many other brands of vehicles around.

[cafe latte]

I cant help thinking if the new Defender is any good at all when it comes out the prices of the old will crash.
Chris

[Pickles2]

I cant help thinking if the new Defender is any good at all when it comes out the prices of the old will crash.
Chris
I've thought about that, but I don't think that is what will happen.
Most Defenders now, are owned by enthusiasts, who've bought them for their own reasons. Defender will, from now on, be even more an "enthusiasts" vehicle, a "classic".
If one looks at other "classics", when they've been "superceded" at the time by later models, their values have not crashed, because they are what they are, will never be made again etc, so their attraction remains,...and I'm confident that will be the case for Defender too.
I'm sure the new Defender, IF it ever arrives, will be good, it'll be built to sell, but I'm sure it will be very different to "ours", which IMHO will therefore retain their appeal, & value.
Pickles.

[cafe latte]

I've thought about that, but I don't think that is what will happen.
Most Defenders now, are owned by enthusiasts, who've bought them for their own reasons. Defender will, from now on, be even more an "enthusiasts" vehicle, a "classic".
If one looks at other "classics", when they've been "superceded" at the time by later models, their values have not crashed, because they are what they are, will never be made again etc, so their attraction remains,...and I'm confident that will be the case for Defender too.
I'm sure the new Defender, IF it ever arrives, will be good, it'll be built to sell, but I'm sure it will be very different to "ours", which IMHO will therefore retain their appeal, & value.
Pickles.

Not so sure.. I have a HJ45 wagon for sale. It has a rebuilt engine 10k ago (complete rebuild with engine center bill) rebuilt transfer and gearbox again I have all the recepts. New windscreen no rust, no oil leaks, new breaks actually new everything wheel bearings etc a complete rebuild. It is a little tatty paint wise as that was the next job when the missus decided she wanted a new car. It is the H motor diesel Cruiser so it is only worth about 3 grand, but later Landcruiser's (more modern) are worth quite a bit. People want comfort and power, there are collectors here, but most want to use the car and it needs to be economical and be able to keep up with the flow of traffic. It is why older series are quite cheap now, the same reason the hj45 is cheap. I do love my Defender, but I can see its value dropping too eventually as more modern cars perform better and better. There will always be a floor as there will always be collectors and there will always be special miny examples demanding a high price, but most want a car to drive.
I am a Landy nut, I have wanted one since I learned to drive, but I would not consider an old series now even if it was super mint, the new Defender drives so much better, the same will happen with time to it in my opinion. I hope it lasts me out, but if the new Defender performs better without loosing the charm of the old model the prices of the old model will drop big time.
Chris

[manic]

I cant help thinking if the new Defender is any good at all when it comes out the prices of the old will crash.
Chris

The new defender would need to be something very odd, the kind of 4x4 I doubt they can build anymore due to current industry/economics and safety rules. It's quite possible old defender desirability will go up further should LR release a discovery platform with a bubbly defender tribute body plonked on top.

[manic]

Not so sure.. I have a HJ45 wagon for sale.
What's an HJ45? :p

[ProjectDirector]

So no one thinks a Defender is worth the same as a Discovery? Does that mean everyone would prefer a Discovery if they had the cash / would buy a Discovery instead if they had always been the same price as each other?


Dropped my 110 today for 3rd service and fave me a D4. Great car to drive but would hate to give it the same treatment as my defender, so the defender stays [emoji2]

[Pickles2]

Can't believe it, but "listed" prices are GOING UP. There's heaps on there for $20K over new price!!..Like I said I don't know whether they're actually selling, but I noticed a Keswick 90 (delivery ks, NO extras) which shows "Deposit Taken" at $60K, which would be close enough to new price, before the lunacy started.
Pickles.

[Greg4427]

Yup Pickles, I keep looking at them as well but still consider them way over the top. There were a couple of dealers selling new stock with "Get Price" which in effect mean't get ripped! But they seem to have gone with a big gap between those who bought at retail, drove them home to then list them $35,000 more and those which are latish models with higher then normal kms and inflated expectations lol.

[JDNSW]

What's an HJ45? :p

Landcruiser I think.

John

[Jason]

I was lucky enough to get my defender 90 recently so decided to sell the old one ( 90 2011 with 92000 on the clock ) after telling myself I would be greedy to keep both I put it up on Car Sales a couple of weeks ago. I had been watching defenders sell pretty fast so thought it would be a good time.

Within half an hour got a call and the guy came out to do the deal SOLD! It turns out it was a dealer I got a price I was very happy with so worked out well. Making a small profit on a car I bought over 2 years ago!

Since then I've definately seen the sales online slow down a bit here in WA so I think I timed it well, especially being a 90 which are not quite as sort after.

[Pickles2]

Well, they ain't getting any cheaper, a perusal of Car Sales today shows new or near new 90s offered at $70K,..... a "bit" over list.
A person I spoke to yesterday bought a silver pack 90 for $63K a month ago....still well over retail.
Pickles.

[ozscott]

The non special editions will come down (and dont forget the hysteria that is seeing the advertised prices going up does not translate to the sold price...).

Cheers

[Tombie]

Dropped my 110 today for 3rd service and fave me a D4. Great car to drive but would hate to give it the same treatment as my defender, so the defender stays [emoji2]



So what you're saying is that a Defender isn't worth showing care and respect but a D4 is??

[emoji48][emoji48][emoji48][emoji48]

I'll take my Disco anywhere I want to go, just as I did the Defender and the D2...

[Tombie]

Special editions will drop significantly as well...
They have no intrinsic value in the market.

Close up looks at the tribute models shows it cheaper to buy the parts and upgrade a Std model and still have a heap of cash available.

[steane]

Special editions will drop significantly as well...
They have no intrinsic value in the market.

Close up looks at the tribute models shows it cheaper to buy the parts and upgrade a Std model and still have a heap of cash available.

Agree, but you'd spend the money on something useful, not the mostly worthless additions the special editions came with. As I've said before, they are a lost opportunity, they could have truly been special.

[Daz7]

As someone looking to purchase, theres a lot of wishful sellers out there. From what I see the dealerships are finding the $60-65k range for very low km 90's are where buyers are.

I looked at a 90 with 250km's on it (so demo km) last week with leather and sunroof that the dealer had listed it for $68990. He was open that $65 would buy it and it sold pretty quickly so I presume in the 60-65k region.

Also notice a 90 adventure thats been listed at $79k reduced to 74k so even the dealers are finding theres a limit to what people will pay.

Whats amusing are the amount of speculative private sellers popping up with 2015-16 vehicles that just have had a chance of circumstances.

[Pickles2]

As someone looking to purchase, theres a lot of wishful sellers out there. From what I see the dealerships are finding the $60-65k range for very low km 90's are where buyers are.

I looked at a 90 with 250km's on it (so demo km) last week with leather and sunroof that the dealer had listed it for $68990. He was open that $65 would buy it and it sold pretty quickly so I presume in the 60-65k region.

Also notice a 90 adventure thats been listed at $79k reduced to 74k so even the dealers are finding theres a limit to what people will pay.

Whats amusing are the amount of speculative private sellers popping up with 2015-16 vehicles that just have had a chance of circumstances.
Yes, I've noticed that price range too.
Before the rush/end of production etc, ya could get a 90 for $43K driveaway, so prices now are, in some cases, including the example you speak of, around $20K over list?...not a bad mark up?!!
Pickles.

[Daz7]

Yes, I've noticed that price range too.
Before the rush/end of production etc, ya could get a 90 for $43K driveaway, so prices now are, in some cases, including the example you speak of, around $20K over list?...not a bad mark up?!!
Pickles.

The last limited editions seem to have been sold in the $65-68k range new though, so not that far out of the ballpark.

What will be interesting is whats going to happen when the last of the dealer stock disappears and all we're left with are the private sale speculators and used examples.

In this instance waiting around for 6 months or so and watching the market might not be a bad thing.

[scarry]

Yes, I've noticed that price range too.
Before the rush/end of production etc, ya could get a 90 for $43K driveaway, so prices now are, in some cases, including the example you speak of, around $20K over list?...not a bad mark up?!!
Pickles.

That is actually around 50% increase,in how many months?

It is probably some sort of record for a new vehicle price increase,with no model change.

Also amazing in the economic climate we have here at the moment.

This is the reason no one can predict what will now happen to these vehicles prices,as this situation is very rare.

[MrLandy]

That is actually around 50% increase,in how many months?

It is probably some sort of record for a new vehicle price increase,with no model change.

Also amazing in the economic climate we have here at the moment.

This is the reason no one can predict what will now happen to these vehicles prices,as this situation is very rare.

Some good points Scarry, definately a rare situation, athough I'm not sure what you mean by 'the economic climate we have here at the moment'? We live in one of the top 5 wealthiest countries in the world. All the market hype and scare tactics are totally transparent IMO. Inequity and greed are the problems, not the economy. Too much is never enough apparently.

[1nando]

Theres a couple of excellent looking rigs on carsales at the moment. One has full ashcroft running gear and is fully kitted out....owner is asking 56k. Seems reasonable for the amonunt of money spent on it:
http://carsales.mobi/cars/details/2009-Land-Rover-Defender-No-Badge-110/SSE-AD-4030168?gts=SSE-AD-4030168&gtssaleid=SSE-AD-4030168

[Pickles2]

That is actually around 50% increase,in how many months?

It is probably some sort of record for a new vehicle price increase,with no model change.

Also amazing in the economic climate we have here at the moment.

This is the reason no one can predict what will now happen to these vehicles prices,as this situation is very rare.
I agree with you 100%, We cannot predict anything, for a number of reasons.
I also agree with your comment regarding "Economic Climate".
But I reckon Defender, in many instances now, is an enthusiast's vehicle, maybe one that owners may "want" to own, rather than "have" to own, so maybe able to buy one, without worrying about the dollars.
The other aspect too is, that whilst some of these vehicles are selling at "exhorbitant" pricing, some aren't sellling??!!
There are over 100+ listed at the moment, compared to I think just over 60 not so long ago!!!!.....so an increasing number of sellers appear to be "taking advantage",...so it'll be interesting to see where it all ends up.
If I listed Gracie for sale right now, (which I'm definitely not going to do!) I'd be confident that I could make a substantial profit, something that I seemed unable to do, with all of the many other cars I've owned!
Pickles.

[scarry]

I agree with you 100%, We cannot predict anything, for a number of reasons.
I also agree with your comment regarding "Economic Climate".
But I reckon Defender, in many instances now, is an enthusiast's vehicle, maybe one that owners may "want" to own, rather than "have" to own, so maybe able to buy one, without worrying about the dollars.
The other aspect too is, that whilst some of these vehicles are selling at "exhorbitant" pricing, some aren't sellling??!!
There are over 100+ listed at the moment, compared to I think just over 60 not so long ago!!!!.....so an increasing number of sellers appear to be "taking advantage",...so it'll be interesting to see where it all ends up.
If I listed Gracie for sale right now, (which I'm definitely not going to do!) I'd be confident that I could make a substantial profit, something that I seemed unable to do, with all of the many other cars I've owned!
Pickles.

Some of the sellers must sell,for whatever reason,so some will sell,probably at an undisclosed price.

Others will just sit around...

[Geary]

Theres a couple of excellent looking rigs on carsales at the moment. One has full ashcroft running gear and is fully kitted out....owner is asking 56k. Seems reasonable for the amonunt of money spent on it:
2009 Land Rover Defender (No Badge) 110 Cars for sale in NSW - Carsales Mobile (http://carsales.mobi/cars/details/2009-Land-Rover-Defender-No-Badge-110/SSE-AD-4030168?gts=SSE-AD-4030168&gtssaleid=SSE-AD-4030168)

I'm curious at your view on the price. That car is 7 years old and 140k kms and asking new price which although relative to the others seems reasonable, in a normal world I wouldn't call it reasonable. Understand that it has a long list of nice bits but my experience has generally been that aftermarket parts help sell but don't really help price.

[1nando]

I'm curious at your view on the price. That car is 7 years old and 140k kms and asking new price which although relative to the others seems reasonable, in a normal world I wouldn't call it reasonable. Understand that it has a long list of nice bits but my experience has generally been that aftermarket parts help sell but don't really help price.

The way I see it is as follows:
Near new standard 110s are going for around 70k as an average on carsales. A new 79 series is more than that and a patrol around the same money. Now If im in the market for a defender im more than likely interested in touring and 4wding (this is my view and opinion).
Now 70k on a standard vehicle means that by the time i build the vehicle the way i want i would have almost spent 90 to 100k.
The 110 ive referenced (and i know what the parts are worth) is 56k ready to go. Then theres the fact that its done 139000kms. Its not many kms at all for a diesel and good chance any potential issues have been ironed/sorted out. My 2013 limited edition 110 cost 62500 and ive spent around 15-20k building it up......had i seen an add similar to this one before i bought my puma i would have seriously considered it. There's a lot of value.......obviously all this would require a thorough inspection, test drive etc...

[manic]

Theres a couple of excellent looking rigs on carsales at the moment. One has full ashcroft running gear and is fully kitted out....owner is asking 56k. Seems reasonable for the amonunt of money spent on it:
http://carsales.mobi/cars/details/2009-Land-Rover-Defender-No-Badge-110/SSE-AD-4030168?gts=SSE-AD-4030168&gtssaleid=SSE-AD-4030168

I get what your saying about cost to build but its had its wheel arches butchered. That's 10k off right there imo. I think 45k is closer to reasonable if looking for a sale.

But I'm guessing seller in no rush to sell and if there is a buyer who thinks it's the perfect touring set up for them, it could be worth it. They are unlikely to find a >= 2009 and build it up to same spec for less than 56k.

Personally I'd rather buy a cleaner example and spend the extra++ building it to my own spec. If looking around that age I'd be more interested in this one for touring value/potential - http://carsales.mobi/cars/details/2008-Land-Rover-Defender-No-Badge-130/SSE-AD-4013246

[Pickles2]

Checked out Carsales today & there's more Defenders on there than ever,,..115 as at today.
And pricing is becoming even more "ridiculous",...two I picked out today,...a Keswick 90 with 410 klms on the clock,...$73K!!!, and a 7000klm 90 for,.....$80K!!!.....both of which are over Adventure pricing!!
Not saying they're selling though, there's plenty on there that I'm familiar with,.....been on there for a while,......a long while!
Pickles.

[connormotorsport]

Yes prices are somewhat inflated it seems but people are paying it without question.
If people are paying then that's what they are selling for, rather simple really.
Just over a few months after I bought my 130 new in late 2015 My salesman called and said he had someone who was after a 130 the same specs as mine and was also happy to pay nearly 14k more than what I purchased the car for. No questions asked whatsoever except they made the offer and really wanted it. I politely declined although it does seem rather tempting doesn't it.....
We have all Seen what the US prices are doing and I believe in the very near future that ours could and possibly will head in the same direction.

[manic]

There was a a guy at the tyre fitters who took a shine to my 90. Asked me how much I would be willing to sell for. I said not for sale, to which he replied 'everything's got a price'.

I reckon it would take 100k to get me to start thinking about it. And that's absurd for a 1989 tdi! But I don't want to sell.

At the moment you have opportunist's who saw the demand and forthcoming demise. But when they are all snapped up by enthusiasts, and the majority owned by those who do not want to sell, high prices could persist.

Beckham was papped in his 90 in London just recently...Imagine if demand continues to rise!

[cafe latte]

Yes prices are somewhat inflated it seems but people are paying it without question.
If people are paying then that's what they are selling for, rather simple really.
Just over a few months after I bought my 130 new in late 2015 My salesman called and said he had someone who was after a 130 the same specs as mine and was also happy to pay nearly 14k more than what I purchased the car for. No questions asked whatsoever except they made the offer and really wanted it. I politely declined although it does seem rather tempting doesn't it.....
We have all Seen what the US prices are doing and I believe in the very near future that ours could and possibly will head in the same direction.

I paid 57k for mine leather seats and other extras. I dont care if the price goes up to 100k nobody is getting mine.
Chris

[Eevo]

for that price, you could of got a good car :p

[Daz7]

I actually think its calming down, especially in the used/private sale market.

As I'm in the market for a 90 and trying to get my head around whats selling for what, I have all of the 90's saved. So this week:

A couple of the private sale 90's have been dropped in price by $3-5k.

Theres been

1x private sale 2015 90 (15000km) that was listed for $53900, I presume it sold for 50-53k range.

1x 2016 Adventure 90 (500km) was listed for $74k presume it sold near to $70 but who knows.

[Pickles2]

Daz, I agree, & I've said, that some prices are massively inflated, because they are,....... well, I "presume" they are!!!
But who knows?.....However, there is no doubt that there are some ridiculous prices out there, and some are definitely not selling,.......yet?
Will prices go up or down?
Me?....I think they will trend downwards.
Pickles.

[scarry]

There is a 2014 110 in Moorooka(Brisbane)for sale for $65k.(Gummtree)
It has heaps of extras,around $30k worth.

Has definitely been sold,is immaculate.

Probably not a greatly inflated price,and a good buy.No wonder it sold.The others will just sit around.

You can't compare the USA second hand market for Defenders to ours,as they have not been available there for years.

[MrLandy]

Prices will continue to rise for pristine examples, unmodified, low km's. If no new model Defender prices will rise even more.

Most Defender owners are in no hurry to sell. If you're patient you may get a bargain, but that will be rare and a low price for a good example will be above the original new price.

I think prices will continue to rise for all Defenders in good condition, especially because any new model, if it ever materialises, will be entirely different.

The Defender lineage has been broken IMHO. Anything original will keep rising in price.

[MrLandy]

You can't compare the USA second hand market for Defenders to ours,as they have not been available there for years.

On the contrary Scarry, Defender prices will rise in Australia in the future for this reason... They are no longer available.

...and they are iconic like virtually nothing else.

[cafe latte]

for that price, you could of got a good car :p

:D What is wrong with a noisy clunky Defender? :D
Chris

[scarry]

:D What is wrong with a noisy clunky Defender? :D
Chris

Nothing if that's what you want:p

[Eevo]

:D What is wrong with a noisy clunky Defender? :D
Chris

system error: maximum post length exceeded.

[scarry]

On the contrary Scarry, Defender prices will rise in Australia in the future for this reason... They are no longer available.

...and they are iconic like virtually nothing else.

In the US,the numbers of Defenders compared to the population is completely different to here.A few were imported between 1993 and 1997,and older ones may be imported,but the rules are very very strict.Very few come in for this reason.

Prices go up,and down due to supply and demand,and what people will pay for them.
Much more demand in the US than there ever will be here.

[Daz7]

In the US,the numbers of Defenders compared to the population is completely different to here.A few were imported between 1993 and 1997,and older ones may be imported,but the rules are very very strict.Very few come in for this reason.

Prices go up,and down due to supply and demand,and what people will pay for them.
Much more demand in the US than there ever will be here.

This is true, currently I have 44 D90's newer than 2012, that I've saved from carsales. With that much choice they are hardly hard to come by.

Stumbled across a D90 in a car yard today:

2013 Land Rover Defender Manual 4x4 MY13 (http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Land-Rover-Defender-2013/OAG-AD-12866472/?Cr=2)

It had been well setup for touring duties and looked a nice clean example. It had been traded in on a BT50, the guy wanted something to tow his van better according to the sales guy. If it was me I'd sell the van and buy a smaller one.

I'm sure residual values on Defenders will always be good, I just don't think they'll be as good as some hope long term.

As far as what a new model might do, you only have to look at Jeep and how owners of TJ Wranglers felt when end of model arrived and the JK was unknown. In reality its been the best thing Jeep have ever done.

[MrLandy]

Ok lads, let's check back in 2020. Cheers!

PS: I wouldn't sell mine for $100K ...you can't even buy a decent Disco or Tojo 200 for that and neither are as good as a Defender. Was at the dealer waiting for service pick up. Sat in a new Range Rover, nice leather but the rest? No thanks. At $250K? bonkers.

Ciao

[Babs]

Ok lads, let's check back in 2020. Cheers! PS: I wouldn't sell mine for $100K ...you can't even buy a decent Disco or Tojo 200 for that and neither are as good as a Defender. Was at the dealer waiting for service pick up. Sat in a new Range Rover, nice leather but the rest? No thanks. At $250K? bonkers. Ciao

On the contrary, SDV6 SE just under 80k, 200 Series GXL 82-83K.
I would hardly say a Defender is better than these two examples, rather a personal opinion.
There is nothing about the Defender that is better than these two examples except nostalgia.
Yes the Defender is Iconic and somewhat eccentric and comes to its own in certain ways but I wouldn't class it as better.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[MrLandy]

On the contrary, SDV6 SE just under 80k, 200 Series GXL 82-83K.
I would hardly say a Defender is better than these two examples, rather a personal opinion.
There is nothing about the Defender that is better than these two examples except nostalgia.
Yes the Defender is Iconic and somewhat eccentric and comes to its own in certain ways but I wouldn't class it as better.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

What's $15-20K between friends?

How I think Defender is better:
Bigger chassis
Better clearance
Better suspension/wheel articulation
More useable space
Better fuel economy
Better seating position
Hose out / no carpet / pragmatic
Easier to bolt accessories on
Standard 16 X 6.5" tubeless wheels
Designed for the bush in original spec
1 tonne load capacity
Iconic design
Individual character
Resale value
Unmatched Camaraderie

Nostalgia has nothing to do with it.

Infact it's JLR designers thinking that nostalgia is the most important thing going for Defender that will result in the new model Defender being a poor design.

[manic]

On the contrary, SDV6 SE just under 80k, 200 Series GXL 82-83K.
I would hardly say a Defender is better than these two examples, rather a personal opinion.
There is nothing about the Defender that is better than these two examples except nostalgia.


the defender is better in some ways:
Better for modification, better for panel replacement, better approach and departure angles, lighter, better load carrying capacity, better interior tolerance to dirt, a customisable choice of wheelbases makes it better for many working applications.

My personal opinion:
Better looking, better history, better class, better offroad 4x4

It's not nostalgia. It's the lure of the defender.

[Babs]

What's $15-20K between friends? How I think Defender is better: Bigger chassis Better clearance Better suspension/wheel articulation More useable space Better fuel economy Better seating position Hose out / no carpet / pragmatic Easier to bolt accessories on Standard 16 X 6.5" tubeless wheels Designed for the bush in original spec 1 tonne load capacity Iconic design Individual character Resale value Unmatched Camaraderie Nostalgia has nothing to do with it. Infact it's JLR designers thinking that nostalgia is the most important thing going for Defender that will result in the new model Defender being a poor design.


Ha ha ha 😀 don't get me started, I could contradict most points on that list, then triple the list for the Cons. Albeit I drive one and yes they are special in their own way.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[MrLandy]

Ha ha ha 😀 don't get me started, I could contradict most points on that list, then triple the list for the Cons. Albeit I drive one and yes they are special in their own way.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

:) you could try....but then we'd just go in circles because the pros outweigh the cons by far I reckon :p

[Plutei]

Pro's and cons, it's all outweighed by the feeling of driving one.

Except one bloody rattle that drives me nuts :censored:

[Tombie]

What's $15-20K between friends?



How I think Defender is better:

Bigger chassis

Better clearance

Better suspension/wheel articulation

More useable space

Better fuel economy

Better seating position

Hose out / no carpet / pragmatic

Easier to bolt accessories on

Standard 16 X 6.5" tubeless wheels

Designed for the bush in original spec

1 tonne load capacity

Iconic design

Individual character

Resale value

Unmatched Camaraderie



Nostalgia has nothing to do with it.



Infact it's JLR designers thinking that nostalgia is the most important thing going for Defender that will result in the new model Defender being a poor design.



Strange...
If comparing in stock form the D4 has better articulation.
A D4 has a stronger chassis/body frame combo
A D4 has Better fuel economy
A D4 has a better seating position
A D4 has better useable space - try getting a fridge sized box through the back of a Defender

A Defender has 16 x 7 [emoji6]
Designed by a poor (at the time) company desperate to save itself using what it had lying around

Both are individual in design

Other than that, it comes down to what you like [emoji48]

[Babs]

Strange... If comparing in stock form the D4 has better articulation. A D4 has a stronger chassis/body frame combo A D4 has Better fuel economy A D4 has a better seating position A D4 has better useable space - try getting a fridge sized box through the back of a Defender A Defender has 16 x 7 [emoji6] Designed by a poor (at the time) company desperate to save itself using
what it had lying around Both are individual in design Other than that, it comes down to what you like [emoji48]

Thanks Tombie, just what I meant when I said don't get me started, I just couldn't have been bothered with writing out all the bad points of a Defender and all the Pro's of a D4 and 200 Series.

It's definitely not the refinement of a Defender as to why we drive them ha ha ha 😀

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[Tombie]

True. But nothing wrong with either. That's why we have a set [emoji41]
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/05/51.jpg

[MrLandy]

Yep as I said, we can go around in circles all day, because it's horses for courses, differing priorities, differing budgets, differing needs, differing experiences.

Vive la differance!

But Defender is better :p and was always under priced (thank goodness, because it's not now!).

[cafe latte]

I liked the Disco when I sat in it at the dealers, but I cant imagine churning through muddy paddocks and climbing into it covered in mud. The defender though is made to be hosed out..
I also like the simplicity of the Defender, the star trek like dash on the Disco is great, but just how many gremlins down the track are waiting to bite you on the butt when the car is a bit older?
Then there is mechanical's, if the motor ever needs removing on the Disco is is serious stuff, not so on the Defender. How much does it cost to refurb the suspension on the Disco? Scary money!!! Disco is a great car, but you dont want to break anything out of warranty..
Chris

[manic]

Strange...
If comparing in stock form the D4 has better articulation.

A D4 has a stronger chassis/body frame combo
A D4 has Better fuel economy
A D4 has a better seating position
A D4 has better useable space - try getting a fridge sized box through the back of a Defender
[emoji48]

What's the point of stronger chassis/frame combo if you can't load anything onto it. With defender you can look at 90,110,130 chassis and body options for something suitable. Sure the frame/body makes the d4 better for crashing but the defender has hit cool status and ancap ratings is not a cool way to decide on a vehicle. I don't like that it's become 'cool' but it's certainly contributing to the price hike. D4 is a family car that is exciting compared to a ford focus but utterly boring when compared to a defender.

D4 does not articulate well, it crosses obstacles like a plank in comparison to defender. Which I'll admit seems to work well. The front wheel travel is virtually non existent. Defender articulation can by far exceed a d4. The modifications and possibilities are what makes the defender so much more interesting, the potential to be much more capable and now that it's exclusive , a lot more desirable.

Better seating position, subjective. I love the defender position but then I'm not huge like Odo (Ol d door!). My girlfriend can't drive it though because there is not enough seat and steering wheel adjustment for a hobbit. Like a fighter jet, you gotta be in the right size bracket to pilot a defender :) So to surmise, d4 has better driving position for huge/rotund/midget people which is great for sales. I jest! 😂 Note to self: less burgers.

Not better usable space. Consider a 130 tray back. Consider a d4 has a tiny rear load space and 75kg roof rack limit.

Fuel economy... the defender has always been good at that compared to other 4x4s. Especially considering its got the aerodynamics of a brick. Its not an issue for defender sales.

[MrLandy]

Gold points, Cafe Latte & Manic.

Quote of the day! ... "D4 is a family car that is exciting compared to a ford focus but utterly boring when compared to a defender." Manic. :D

[Eevo]

the name defender actually refers to the owner and not the car.

[Tombie]

Just for the record. I have always found a Defender comfy - even at my size.. [emoji48]

I'm lucky - I get to enjoy both..

And if not, I just pinch a nearby Defender and go for a spin - even won a driving comp in that one [emoji13] (Hey Digger!)

[digger]

Just for the record. I have always found a Defender comfy - even at my size.. [emoji48]

I'm lucky - I get to enjoy both..

And if not, I just pinch a nearby Defender and go for a spin - even won a driving comp in that one [emoji13] (Hey Digger!)

Turbo spinner! :p

[digger]

True. But nothing wrong with either. That's why we have a set [emoji41]
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/05/51.jpg

Tombie, I can see the shadow of the power pole coming up out of your dodgem car... Sorry... D4. :D

[YOLO110]

Tombie mate...

Can we please have some more photos of your ubber cool 90 again please!

I love the Keswick/Black combo... very different and very nice!

Cheers, Pete

[Babs]

the name defender actually refers to the owner and not the car.

Bah ha ha, that's hilarious. I love your one liners throughout the forum, funny stuff. Keep it up.

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[Babs]

Tombie love the Rock Crawl graphics.

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[Tombie]

Tombie mate...

Can we please have some more photos of your ubber cool 90 again please!

I love the Keswick/Black combo... very different and very nice!

Cheers, Pete



Sure. I'll write a thread up on it this week

[cuppabillytea]

the name defender actually refers to the owner and not the car.
Ho ho bloody ho. :p I thought I'd have to defend my choice but I've had nothing but high praise and kudos in spades. :twisted:

[1nando]

A defender is a purpose built vehicle. The compromise is it is built to a cost rather than a standard. This can lead to some being luckier than others during ownership. If you're lucky or patient enough to sort the vehicle out you will have a solid tough as nails 4wd that will more than likely outlast your requirements meering your needs effortlessly and without issue. Maybe this is the reason why so many military forces world wide have trusted the land rover for use in the harshest of situations and environments.
A defender is a bit like vegemite, not as nice as nutella or as sweet as jam but rather an aquired taste that is unique and beautiful in its own right keeping you going back for more...

[cafe latte]

A defender is a purpose built vehicle. The compromise is it is built to a cost rather than a standard. This can lead to some being luckier than others during ownership. If you're lucky or patient enough to sort the vehicle out you will have a solid tough as nails 4wd that will more than likely outlast your requirements meering your needs effortlessly and without issue. Maybe this is the reason why so many military forces world wide have trusted the land rover for use in the harshest of situations and environments.
A defender is a bit like vegemite, not as nice as nutella or as sweet as jam but rather an aquired taste that is unique and beautiful in its own right keeping you going back for more...

Nobody mentioned anything about eating vegemite when I bought my Defender :spudnikhurler:
Chris

[cuppabillytea]

Nobody mentioned anything about eating vegemite when I bought my Defender :spudnikhurler:
Chris

Well it's about time you learned the rules Chris. :rulez: There's no exemption just for being a Pom. You'll have to learn to like it.:p:wasntme:

[strangy]

Oh oh I've found myself in in that foggy haze again. Somehow the D4 vs Defender thread has broken free of its electronic bondage and is invading this one.
Terry O must be smirking.

[Tombie]

Thank goodness Defenders are Vegemite.
Nutella looks like poo and having tried it conclude its taste to likely be similar.

[MrLandy]

Oh oh I've found myself in in that foggy haze again. Somehow the D4 vs Defender thread has broken free of its electronic bondage and is invading this one.
Terry O must be smirking.

Nah it's just that Defender prices are nudging the over the top D4 prices precisely because they are not overburdened with fruit; and that D4's are sugar coated like fairy floss, while pragmatic Defender owners prefer the vitamin B of vegemite. :p

[cafe latte]

Well it's about time you learned the rules Chris. :rulez: There's no exemption just for being a Pom. You'll have to learn to like it.:p:wasntme:

I can wave the Aus flag wear thongs if needed, but Vegemite!!
I cant think of anything so horrible please not the salty brown goo!!! GULP more to being Ausy than I thought :eek:
Chris

[cuppabillytea]

You don't have to do all that. Just take a little at a time with lots of butter and squeez it through the holes in your SAOs. You don't have to prove you're an Aussie, just enjoy being one.:D

[Babs]

I just think we need a better analogy.

How about the defender is the not so good looking girl, who is really into you, does everything you want, is grateful your with her, gets on with everybody and does her job in the sack better than any other.

The D4 is the good sort who knows it, will only do what she has to because she thinks she's better than that, expects you to be into her, is temperamental, mediocre in the sack relying on her good looks to make up for it and she is into designer accessories and makes you pay for it.


How's that, gotta be better than Vegimite & Nuttella. Ha ha ha 😀

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[cuppabillytea]

Too close to the bone for many of us I suspect. :o

[Babs]

Too close to the bone for many of us I suspect. :o

Ha ha ha 😀 nail on the head then

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[cafe latte]

I just think we need a better analogy.

How about the defender is the not so good looking girl, who is really into you, does everything you want, is grateful your with her, gets on with everybody and does her job in the sack better than any other.

The D4 is the good sort who knows it, will only do what she has to because she thinks she's better than that, expects you to be into her, is temperamental, mediocre in the sack relying on her good looks to make up for it and she is into designer accessories and makes you pay for it.


How's that, gotta be better than Vegimite & Nuttella. Ha ha ha 😀

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:D I think I have dated a D4 in the past :D
Chris

[Babs]

:D I think I have dated a D4 in the past :D Chris

Bah ha ha ha ha ha

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[DiscoMick]

Defenders are keepers.

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[Eevo]

I just think we need a better analogy.

How about the defender is the not so good looking girl, who is really into you, does everything you want, is grateful your with her, gets on with everybody and does her job in the sack better than any other.

The D4 is the good sort who knows it, will only do what she has to because she thinks she's better than that, expects you to be into her, is temperamental, mediocre in the sack relying on her good looks to make up for it and she is into designer accessories and makes you pay for it.


How's that, gotta be better than Vegimite & Nuttella. Ha ha ha 😀

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please continue.
describe a range rover
and a landcruiser...

:angel:

[Babs]

please continue. describe a range rover and a landcruiser... :angel:

Ha ha ha 😀

The Range Rover is the Double Bay Bimbo, designer shoes, hand bags, has it all, claims she can do it all but doesn't want to get dirty, pretentious and stuck up, doesn't like to mingle with the commoners like Defenders and is so full of her self she even thinks the Lords D4's aren't worthy because they don't have royal blood.
Funny thing is I see a lot of them hanging around Lakemba and Bankstown. Bah haha

Toyota Land Cruiser is the Country Girl, full of personality, a little class not too much and very down to earth, she loves getting dirty, and does her job well, pays her way, ages with grace and always looks good, she can carry your burdens and you can rely on her for the rest of your life. She can adapt to any situation can live it up back home in the bush or even shines at the Ritz, she is a Keeper, but don't be fooled you have to pay for her as she knows her value and what she has to offer.

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[Eevo]

landcrusier: a loud **** who keeps coming back for more
:angel:

[Babs]

landcrusier: a loud **** who keeps coming back for more :angel:
It doesn't make sense when it's censored

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[steane]

Ha ha ha 😀

The Range Rover is the Double Bay Bimbo, designer shoes, hand bags, has it all, claims she can do it all but doesn't want to get dirty, pretentious and stuck up, doesn't like to mingle with the commoners like Defenders and is so full of her self she even thinks the Lords D4's aren't worthy because they don't have royal blood.
Funny thing is I see a lot of them hanging around Lakemba and Bankstown. Bah haha

Toyota Land Cruiser is the Country Girl, full of personality, a little class not too much and very down to earth, she loves getting dirty, and does her job well, pays her way, ages with grace and always looks good, she can carry your burdens and you can rely on her for the rest of your life. She can adapt to any situation can live it up back home in the bush or even shines at the Ritz, she is a Keeper, but don't be fooled you have to pay for her as she knows her value and what she has to offer.

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I think you got LandCruiser very wrong.

She grew up in the attic where her parents conditioned her to believe that she was wonderful, unbreakable and too good to be exposed to normal people. If she failed at anything it was never talked about and thus she believed she never failed.

When finally let out, her parents advertised for suitors. They lied about how reliable she was as a partner, how strong she was mentally and about her achievements in life. Simple Australian menfolk lapped it up, and despite knowing her taste was expensive, they lined up to take her out.

The first date revealed that she was seriously overweight and her legs could barely support her, she drank like a fish but hated water, she devoured oily foods, cost a fortune to feed and she had a strange flat face and boggly eyes.

But the simple Australian menfolk were besotted and overlooked her many faults as they vied for her affections and the prestige that it would bring.

She finally settled on a partner, drained his cash, forced him to work a second job and then she suffered a breakdown that would cost $40,000 to treat. Her partner tried to call her parents for assistance but they were no longer contactable.

[strangy]

Her parents were very proud of Princess despite the bandy legs, plastic teeth and a rare skin disease.
Princess could be often seen happily playing with her pet dog "bogan" she would drag "bogan" around the garden for hours.
Sadly "bogan" was actually dead but nobody had the heart to tell her....

...Hilux...


(Blatantly pinched from (Monty Python)

[Tombie]

The Land Cruiser is the Country Mutton Dressed to look like Lamb. Wearing a push up bra...

You think you're getting something hot but when the lights go on and the covers come off it becomes blatantly obvious you didn't get what you paid for...

[sheerluck]

....But with a proud sugar daddy owner who espouses her virtues like she's a 16 year old Russian gymnast. ;)

[Disco Muppet]

So basically defender owners spend all their money on Depends, because their girls are always leaking?
Unlucky.

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[steane]

So basically defender owners spend all their money on Depends, because their girls are always leaking?
Unlucky.

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I never thought of stuffing one of those up between the TC and GB. Could work...;)

[sheerluck]

So basically defender owners spend all their money on Depends, because their girls are always leaking?
Unlucky.

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I had to go and look that up :lol2:

[Babs]

Ha ha ha 😀 we are all so off Topic. But this is hilarious, sooo entertaining. Love it. Some funny reads.

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[Pickles2]

Ha ha ha �� we are all so off Topic. But this is hilarious, sooo entertaining. Love it. Some funny reads.

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Hello my "potential LS3" friend.
It's not your problem, but I disagree. I started this thread the subject of which was "Defenders On Carsales".
This thread has been hijacked, much of the stuff being posted now, has NOTHING to do with "Carsales", which was the reason & subject of my thread.
So Babs, NOTHING to do with you mate, but if any other members continue to hijack this thread away from its original purpose, I will report it.
So, Forum members, think of me as you will, I ain't "spitting the dummy", but fair is fair....so please keep "on topic"....ie, what is your comment on the number, quality, & price, of "Defenders listed on Carsales"?
Pickles.

[sheerluck]

Off topic? I know where there's a thread all about that. :angel:

But to answer your question Pickles, the supply of Defenders has fallen, and the price of them has risen, to the point where I have put a plea out for a wreck to use in a project.

I started looking only a couple of months ago, and supply/costs have changed quite significantly in that short time.

[MrLandy]

I've just had a look through car sales. Prices look universally high which is not surprising to me. Also interesting to see how many late model Defenders for sale. There must also be quite a few just trying it on. Time will tell. It would be good to hear from anyone actually trying to buy right now...are you calling them out on price? Or is this now the true market price?

Interestingly prices are not too dissimilar from Toyota 70 series prices.

[Tombie]

I like defenders. Excellent on sand.. Apparently some gets into the occasional driver though...
[emoji48][emoji48][emoji48][emoji48]

[Disco Muppet]

I've just had a look through car sales. Prices look universally high which is not surprising to me. Also interesting to see how many late model Defenders for sale. There must also be quite a few just trying it on. Time will tell. It would be good to hear from anyone actually trying to buy right now...are you calling them out on price? Or is this now the true market price?

Interestingly prices are not too dissimilar from Toyota 70 series prices.

Surely that's a massive mark against the Defender in the current market.
For the money you spend on say, a dual cab 79 series, you might as well buy a D4.
If I was in the market for a work Ute, I'd either be looking for a pre-puma Defender or a 1HD Toyota Ute. I do like the 1VD V8s, but they're too finicky and drink too much for my tastes. Both these options that I would consider would be vastly cheaper than the new ones it seems, allowing more coin for sorting issues, outfitting for work requirements, etc.
And to be honest I prefer the land cruisers. I like aircon that I can direct at my face, and the vent that can be aimed right between your legs is heavenly :angel: plus the 1hd is a great motor, I love my Td5 but I also have a massive respect for the 1HD. The only thing I don't really like about them is the leaf rears.

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[Pickles2]

I've just had a look through car sales. Prices look universally high which is not surprising to me. Also interesting to see how many late model Defenders for sale. There must also be quite a few just trying it on. Time will tell. It would be good to hear from anyone actually trying to buy right now...are you calling them out on price? Or is this now the true market price?

Interestingly prices are not too dissimilar from Toyota 70 series prices.
"Calling them out on price?.."Calling Out"?...well no, but I will just say that I think the listed prices are absolutely unreal, and to be truthful, NO, I don't think asking prices are being realized......Jeez, there's an Adventure 90 just listed for $82K???..How much is that over list?
Pickles.

[Daz7]

It would be good to hear from anyone actually trying to buy right now...are you calling them out on price? Or is this now the true market price?

I'm looking to buy as I've previously stated.

I'm amazed at how many new, or near to new Defenders are coming out of the woodwork by speculators, be they be private sales or dealerships.

Today a Grey 90 MY16 Adventurer with 29km (yes 29km) came up for sale at a dealership in North Sydney for $85k. Stupid price, but good luck if they can get a wood duck to go for it.

Another well specced MY16 that went off the market a few weeks ago, is now back on at the same $69k price at the same dealership. Its got 4500km on it.

A near identical MY16, same spec, same mileage Defender sold in a private sale this week, this was listed at $59990 at time of sale.

Funny thing is, theres a MY13 Defender for sale, its got 8000km's on it and is listed for $39k, been listed for ages. Redbook lists a private sale price range of 27-31k for it.
So presuming its worth the $31k or so, and based on the current asking price, I presume the seller would negotiate it down to $35k if they're keen to sell. At that price your only looking at 10% margin over rebook.

To be honest (and I'm looking at 90's only) near nothing is selling across the board. I can only suggest, that the market is dictating pricing is far too high. Some sellers are reducing prices, some slower than others.

Unless your perfect spec comes up, its a good time to sit back and watch. It's not as if theres a shortage of stock.

[DiscoMick]

$85,000 is silly money, just silly. Still, I hope the prices stay high to make mine worth more than I paid for it.

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[steane]

I like defenders. Excellent on sand.. Apparently some gets into the occasional driver though...
[emoji48][emoji48][emoji48][emoji48]

That comment made my day :D

[MrLandy]

$35-39K for an MY13 with only 8000km on the clock looks like a fair deal to me.

$85K? No. ..Offer what you think it's worth and walk away.

Prices were always going to rise when production ended. No surprise there. How long will it be sustained? Who knows, but I doubt Defenders will drop back to prices beforehand.

[Tombie]

Don't trust Redbook it's always undervalue as it's based on what the public declare on registration transfer.

Not many put the full price they paid to save some coin...

[Pickles2]

I'm looking to buy as I've previously stated.

I'm amazed at how many new, or near to new Defenders are coming out of the woodwork by speculators, be they be private sales or dealerships.

Today a Grey 90 MY16 Adventurer with 29km (yes 29km) came up for sale at a dealership in North Sydney for $85k. Stupid price, but good luck if they can get a wood duck to go for it.

Another well specced MY16 that went off the market a few weeks ago, is now back on at the same $69k price at the same dealership. Its got 4500km on it.

A near identical MY16, same spec, same mileage Defender sold in a private sale this week, this was listed at $59990 at time of sale.

Funny thing is, theres a MY13 Defender for sale, its got 8000km's on it and is listed for $39k, been listed for ages. Redbook lists a private sale price range of 27-31k for it.
So presuming its worth the $31k or so, and based on the current asking price, I presume the seller would negotiate it down to $35k if they're keen to sell. At that price your only looking at 10% margin over rebook.

To be honest (and I'm looking at 90's only) near nothing is selling across the board. I can only suggest, that the market is dictating pricing is far too high. Some sellers are reducing prices, some slower than others.

Unless your perfect spec comes up, its a good time to sit back and watch. It's not as if theres a shortage of stock.
Excellent post Daz,..that is exactly the way I see it.
There's all sorts of good info on all sorts of Defender stuff on the Uk Def 2 site, but from what I've read there, there's far greater "ramping up" pricing here than over there?!
Pickles.

[sheerluck]

Different weighting of buyers in the UK compared to here. Here the owners of Defenders are more your off-road 4wd type drivers, with a few commercial users, where in the UK it is mostly commercial users, farmers, government authorities who buy, with enthusiast and off road drivers low on the list.

[Geary]

I'm looking to buy as I've previously stated.

I'm amazed at how many new, or near to new Defenders are coming out of the woodwork by speculators, be they be private sales or dealerships.

Today a Grey 90 MY16 Adventurer with 29km (yes 29km) came up for sale at a dealership in North Sydney for $85k. Stupid price, but good luck if they can get a wood duck to go for it.

Another well specced MY16 that went off the market a few weeks ago, is now back on at the same $69k price at the same dealership. Its got 4500km on it.

A near identical MY16, same spec, same mileage Defender sold in a private sale this week, this was listed at $59990 at time of sale.

Funny thing is, theres a MY13 Defender for sale, its got 8000km's on it and is listed for $39k, been listed for ages. Redbook lists a private sale price range of 27-31k for it.
So presuming its worth the $31k or so, and based on the current asking price, I presume the seller would negotiate it down to $35k if they're keen to sell. At that price your only looking at 10% margin over rebook.

To be honest (and I'm looking at 90's only) near nothing is selling across the board. I can only suggest, that the market is dictating pricing is far too high. Some sellers are reducing prices, some slower than others.

Unless your perfect spec comes up, its a good time to sit back and watch. It's not as if theres a shortage of stock.

FWIW the local dealer told me that it was illegal for dealers to set a price that was significantly higher than rrp and relayed a story from one of his regulars that was trying to buy a new defender in Sydney and the dealer told him that he'd have to pay in two installments to avoid causing an issue. If this is true it could explain why dealers are putting a few kms on then listing as used.

[cafe latte]

FWIW the local dealer told me that it was illegal for dealers to set a price that was significantly higher than rrp and relayed a story from one of his regulars that was trying to buy a new defender in Sydney and the dealer told him that he'd have to pay in two installments to avoid causing an issue. If this is true it could explain why dealers are putting a few kms on then listing as used.

If this is true they are taking a big chance as it would be easy to prove what they are really doing.
Chris

[Daz7]

If this is true they are taking a big chance as it would be easy to prove what they are really doing.
Chris


FWIW the local dealer told me that it was illegal for dealers to set a price that was significantly higher than rrp and relayed a story from one of his regulars that was trying to buy a new defender in Sydney and the dealer told him that he'd have to pay in two installments to avoid causing an issue. If this is true it could explain why dealers are putting a few kms on then listing as used.

Normally the practise of the 20km demo cars, is to get them off the showroom floor to either bump up monthly new car sales figures, or to move certain models from the new to used yard. Theres normally some sort of bonus for the Dealership from the manufacturer to do this type of thing.

However, once its happened the dealer then has 90 days to get rid of the vehicle before it starts hurting them through their floorplan finance. Hence its worthwhile keeping an eye on stock thats been sitting around a dealers yard because near to 90 days your going to get a ripper deal.

Some of the issue's with the two instalments suggested by Geary, could be the car is over valued and the lease/finance company won't accept the whole amount as security over the loan. But we're just guessing without knowing the facts.

[Greg4427]

One support for the theory is they are listed,as 'used' and not demo, although they have demo kms on them.:mad:

[MrLandy]

However, once its happened the dealer then has 90 days to get rid of the vehicle before it starts hurting them through their floorplan finance. Hence its worthwhile keeping an eye on stock thats been sitting around a dealers yard because near to 90 days your going to get a ripper deal.

I suspect this is why I got a great deal on a demo with very low kms, back in 2014. It was around three months after first registration and it was too good to pass up. I knew prices would rise with the end of production too, but I was surprised they didn't really rise until well into 2016. I certainly don't regret my 2014 purchase!

[Babs]

True about not being able to sell above RR.
Used cars this doesn't apply.
Demo's and new, Yes are on floor plan.
Demo's have write back, they depreciate the vehicles, claim the depreciation and sell cheaper. They generally like to to keep them well under 10k klm as this is the most profitable.

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[tailslide]

They are certainly trying it on $76,990:

2015 Land Rover Defender MY15 110 (4x4) Havana 6 Speed Manual Wagon | Cars, Vans & Utes | Gumtree Australia Canning Area - Bentley | 1114630134 (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/bentley/cars-vans-utes/2015-land-rover-defender-my15-110-4x4-havana-6-speed-manual-wagon/1114630134)

[MrLandy]

Not really. It's got about $20K of extras on it, so probably worth about $70K

[Daz7]

When will they break the 6 figure mark.

Another new Heritage comes out off hiding and is on carsales today @ $94k.

Makes the one for $81k look cheap.

You wonder how peoples mindset works, I mean if an identical vehicle isn't selling at $81k, why would yours sell at $94k?

[Pickles2]

There's a lot more listed too.
When I initiated this thread, only in March, there were 69, now there are around 115!
Pickles.

[strangy]

Just picked up some bits from Sutton Land Rover in Alice.
There was a Defender sales brochure/book on the counter which I wanted.
Joking, Terry laughed and said it was $550 based on the Carsales prices for the actual vehicle,

[Pickles2]

Just picked up some bits from Sutton Land Rover in Alice.
There was a Defender sales brochure/book on the counter which I wanted.
Joking, Terry laughed and said it was $550 based on the Carsales prices for the actual vehicle,
Hope you grabbed the brochure, it's good value, shows all the options, colours etc, I've got a few of 'em for different years.
Pickles.

[MrLandy]

There's a lot more listed too.
When I initiated this thread, only in March, there were 69, now there are around 115!
Pickles.

Lots of attempted profiteering, some who would only sell if they got a huge price, but maybe also some who just foresaw now as a good time to sell. Prices are up for all Defenders, not just new ones. It will run another 6 months I reckon, then we'll really know.

I wouldn't sell mine, even for $100K

[cuppabillytea]

I couldn't sell mine for a $100K. well, maybe if I washed it. :p

[Didge]

As the late Rene Rivkin used to say of shares "sell in boom, buy in gloom" MrLandy, I'll bet you'd give it some serious thought if someone offered you $100K. I maintain my earlier statement on this thread that prices of current Defenders will go in the same direction as those of the Series models and that is down, down, down. I certainly hope they don't, but as I said earlier it will take until they're around 50 years old and become a collectors item (if they ever do) before prices really rise like those of other collectables eg VW kombis. Really, be realistic - who goes looking for a 200TDI or 300 TDi if they can afford a new one? Only the deluded :) and I hope the deluded are right cos I've got an old one :)

[MrLandy]

Yeah sure Didge, but then I'd think, what can I buy for $100K? Landcruiser? ...pfffft gas guzzling whale. Disco? Nah, toorak tractor. Range Rover? Not even half way there and too much fake walnut. Hmm ...GWagen? Still not enough coin. And none of them would make me smile like a Defender.

[ozscott]

Haha...i love it. Absurd prices are not justified by rose coloured glasses.

Cheers

[cafe latte]

As the late Rene Rivkin used to say of shares "sell in boom, buy in gloom" MrLandy, I'll bet you'd give it some serious thought if someone offered you $100K. I maintain my earlier statement on this thread that prices of current Defenders will go in the same direction as those of the Series models and that is down, down, down. I certainly hope they don't, but as I said earlier it will take until they're around 50 years old and become a collectors item (if they ever do) before prices really rise like those of other collectables eg VW kombis. Really, be realistic - who goes looking for a 200TDI or 300 TDi if they can afford a new one? Only the deluded :) and I hope the deluded are right cos I've got an old one :)

Cant speak for my Landy, but I would not part with my Defender for 100k, even a lot more, I dont need the money and I love my Defender. If I sold My Defender I would have to buy a Toyota which is a heavy fuel guzzling lump and I dont like it anyway. My missus even said if Defenders are worth so much now why dont you sell it, the words in response are not suitable for this forum.. I dont care what they sell for my Defender is mine, life is not all about money..
Chris

[steane]

As the late Rene Rivkin used to say of shares "sell in boom, buy in gloom" MrLandy, I'll bet you'd give it some serious thought if someone offered you $100K. I maintain my earlier statement on this thread that prices of current Defenders will go in the same direction as those of the Series models and that is down, down, down. I certainly hope they don't, but as I said earlier it will take until they're around 50 years old and become a collectors item (if they ever do) before prices really rise like those of other collectables eg VW kombis. Really, be realistic - who goes looking for a 200TDI or 300 TDi if they can afford a new one? Only the deluded :) and I hope the deluded are right cos I've got an old one :)

I disagree Didge. Plenty of people are looking for the Tdis. They are the last of the no electrics Land Rover powered cars. Prices for them are rising a lot here, in the UK and the US. They are considered the collectible Defender in many countries.

There are US companies searching the world for good Defenders to import, restore/modify and sell. They have a 25 year rule which means they are 3 years away from being able to cherry pick rust free 300Tdis in Australia and they will do it, its big business for them and the cars are in demand.

It's the old ones that are going to become expensive to buy. They already are, if you want a good one, but we'll look back and think they were cheap now. I predict good Tdis will cost more than the Pumas in the coming years. Won't sell mine but I might buy a couple more over the next few years.

Remind me what I wrote in 2026. You'll be amazed how uncannily accurate I was.;)

[Reads90]

I disagree Didge. Plenty of people are looking for the Tdis. They are the last of the no electrics Land Rover powered cars. Prices for them are rising a lot here, in the UK and the US. They are considered the collectible Defender in many countries.

There are US companies searching the world for good Defenders to import, restore/modify and sell. They have a 25 year rule which means they are 3 years away from being able to cherry pick rust free 300Tdis in Australia and they will do it, its big business for them and the cars are in demand.

It's the old ones that are going to become expensive to buy. They already are, if you want a good one, but we'll look back and think they were cheap now. I predict good Tdis will cost more than the Pumas in the coming years. Won't sell mine but I might buy a couple more over the next few years.

Remind me what I wrote in 2026. You'll be amazed how uncannily accurate I was.;)

I have one of the last 300tdi's mine was made September 1998.

Was going to sell it and get one of the last Pumas but then decided against it as my 110 ( as you stated ) has no electrics and I do like to take it off roading and overlanding. ( off to the Simpson later this year and been to Fraser so far this year. Plus other places )

I am glad I did not sell it as I believe what you are saying.

My 110 300tdi along with my 300tdi 90

109867

[MrLandy]

I think you're right to some extent Stean. 300 Tdi Defenders will continue to increase in value here as wel as USA. But I also think puma Defenders will too. They will be 'old' in 15 years time; by then they will also look very simple electronically in comparison with anything new in 2030. They already are in comparison to most new vehicles.