Discovery 2 - Traction Control vs Front and Rear Lockers

**PhilipA** · 24th December 2020, 08:53 AM

I have to say that my first reaction was that it was a "Captain Obvious" post but I guess that there are some younger forum members who don't have direct experience with lockers and Troy is to be congratulated for putting the effort in to produce and edit the footage.

I also thought that Troy's TC was not working very well as mine seems to activate more positively .

More Captain Obvious observations.

1 TC performance depends on clean fluid with no air in the system. If your pedal is spongy as many D2 owners seem to report then your TC will not work well as it implies air in the system somewhere and possibly in the pump.
2 if you are using "fashionable" brake pads that require warm up then your TC will not work well.
3 If you do not keep the revs at 2200 or whatever and do not wait for the torque to be transmitted to the other wheel with traction then the TC will not work well for you. My impression is that Troy buttoned off much too early as evidenced by the car rolling backwards. If the TC was working enough torque would have been transmitted to the other wheel to maintain position unless the other wheel also started to spin. This is the main criticism of the D2 TC as it is reactive rather than proactive and tends to dig holes.

Unlike he later models which are dumbed down to the lowest common denominator TC in a D2 requires thought and some driving skill. With a CDL it will help with most situations but it is not as clean and quick( or slow) as lockers.

Of course the TC could also be enhanced by removing /disabling the stabiliser bars to give better articulation as the D2 is pretty stiff legged. My 77 had no stab bars and a detroit in the back and was a weapon, but had quite a few quirks like turning, bangs, sliding sideways on cambered slippery surfaces, and very hard on diff bearings and suspension bushes, and broken or twisted axles. The maxi in my 91 sometimes took quite a few swerves at an obstacle to engage and sometimes disengage while the Quaife was effective and didn't affect driveability much at all.

To my mind torque biassing diffs and TC would be a great combination ( if I could afford) unless I was to go on very tough trips regularly.
Regards PhilipA

**sierrafery** · 24th December 2020, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by PhilipA

To my mind torque biassing diffs and TC would be a great combination ( if I could afford) unless I was to go on very tough trips regularly.
Regards PhilipA

I've had an Ashcroft ATB - LSD on the rear and i can say that it didnt make much difference other than the TC kicked in less that's all, actually the result in the field is the same like with a well working TC if you know how to get the best out of it... had to remove it after 3 years cos it was worn out and clunked like hell

**rick130** · 24th December 2020, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by sierrafery

I've had an Ashcroft ATB - LSD on the rear and i can say that it didnt make much difference other than the TC kicked in less that's all, [snip]had to remove it after 3 years cos it was worn out and clunked like hell

Sounds like cracked/broken bellville washers in the centre. They are placed between the two side gears to give a degree of pre-load to the diff.
Did you dismantle it at all?
I'm really curious.

**Kaaaiju** · 24th December 2020, 09:28 AM

Did you use the right oil?

Originally Posted by sierrafery

I've had an Ashcroft ATB - LSD on the rear and i can say that it didnt make much difference other than the TC kicked in less that's all, actually the result in the field is the same like with a well working TC if you know how to get the best out of it... had to remove it after 3 years cos it was worn out and clunked like hell

**sierrafery** · 24th December 2020, 09:38 AM

Yes, i used the right oil and no i didnt investigate what went wrong in it cos as it didnt make a noticeable difference i simply neglected it and put back the original diff core. I considered it an uninspired investment and went further.

**DiscoDB** · 24th December 2020, 09:42 AM

Seriously......was just a simple demo on how the new lockers changed the performance of the OP’s D2.

Plenty of people have posted their experience which others have and already know without being called a D*** Head or Captain Obvious.

We need to encourage the sharing of experience and knowledge, and in Troy’s case - be thankful someone is prepared to give the Chinese Lockers a go.

**Slunnie** · 24th December 2020, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by sierrafery

I've had an Ashcroft ATB - LSD on the rear and i can say that it didnt make much difference other than the TC kicked in less that's all, actually the result in the field is the same like with a well working TC if you know how to get the best out of it... had to remove it after 3 years cos it was worn out and clunked like hell

Lot of fanboys of Ashcroft, I run some of their kit too and they support the LR community exceptionally well, but I would continue to encourage the Detroit Trutrac ATB as it has a more positive bias ratio and doesn’t have the wear issue. Really interesting feedback on the ATB with ETC in practice, thanks for this too.

**jezzarezza** · 26th December 2020, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by TroyMortimer

Hi guys,

thought I'd post this quick comparison of the disco using CDL and TC vs CDL and Front, CDL and Rear. This is loose slate rocks so its quite slippery and cross axel articulation. (Difficult to tell from the video)

I've had the lockers (Air in front and electronic in rear) now for a couple of months. Done a couple of trips and blown away by the difference.
There is always plenty of positive comments around traction control, however you can see the difference.

I can go so much slower up difficult tracks.

These are cheap Chinese brands, and so far so good. drop oil, everything looks good so far. finger crossed.

The question is if you could only afford either front or rear what would you go with. Playing around with only a single locker front definitely gets me over things smother. however the steering pulls straight which i don't like.
When looking up at tough track i normally just turn on the rear before it slips, haven't need both yet.
Where the front I've had to turn on when I'm stuck. so different approaches.

So if you do any off-roading, please consider a locker either front or rear

Hey mate, thanks for the post. Do you have links for where to get either of the lockers?

Thanks 👍

**jezzarezza** · 26th December 2020, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Slunnie

Lot of fanboys of Ashcroft, I run some of their kit too and they support the LR community exceptionally well, but I would continue to encourage the Detroit Trutrac ATB as it has a more positive bias ratio and doesn’t have the wear issue. Really interesting feedback on the ATB with ETC in practice, thanks for this too.

Sorry to hijack the OP but this is the first negative couple of posts I have seen in the Ashcroft ATB.

Is this “wear issue” the same for front and rear diffs? As the detroit is a similar price to lockers I’m weighing up my options... I drive sand mostly (ATB seems perfect here) but don’t want to get caught too short when doing more technical based wheeling...

I also appreciate the advice from PhilipA and sierrafery of enhancing TC by using OG brake pads and Low range when going uphill.

**Slunnie** · 26th December 2020, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by jezzarezza

Sorry to hijack the OP but this is the first negative couple of posts I have seen in the Ashcroft ATB.

Is this “wear issue” the same for front and rear diffs? As the detroit is a similar price to lockers I’m weighing up my options... I drive sand mostly (ATB seems perfect here) but don’t want to get caught too short when doing more technical based wheeling...

I also appreciate the advice from PhilipA and sierrafery of enhancing TC by using OG brake pads and Low range when going uphill.

To clarify, I am a fan of Ashcroft, I run some of their kit, but I’m not a fanboy and see products for that they are.
The wear surface conversation I cant find in a search, I thought it was interesting, I haven’t stripped one. TWR7CX might be able to tip in some real info here.
The bias ratio is more positive in the TruTrac when comparing specifications between manufacturers.
The TruTrac is made as a front and rear units which give you maximum bias ratio in the forward drive direction at both ends, where the Ashcroft ATB is the same unit fitted front and rear.

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