Thread: New Russian Fighter

A bit of good stuff posted but its a bit incomplete, if we leave the politics out of it at the moment.

Before that I will chuck in a bit of business fact. weapons systems may be built by different companies but they are built hand in hand. If you wish to strap an American missile on to a Russian fighter you will quickly fined that there are no more missiles available to you. Apart from the fact that it would be a major exercise and an expensive one, if achievable at all.

now about Indonesia, it was not that long ago that Indonesians were raging in the streets and shouting," Indonesia much people no land, Australia much land no people". At that time it was really serial do-da and a task that got me 6 weeks in a Jakarta jail.

At about the same time Indonesia invested in an instant Navy, 126 ships were delivered from the Russians ( in default at that time).
Add to that the purchase by Indonesia of a bunch of F18s ( i think it was F18s) as well as the factory to build then locally.
As well as Indonesia’s policy of swelling its militias ranks to the point of toping 2 millions under arms

The only missing peace of the hardware jigsaw was landing craft or the ability of getting there hardware onto Australian shores.

The proverbial sticky stuff hit the spinning round thing big time when the intell of Indonesia starting to build its own craft. A bit like a cut down and lower version of a LSD of ww2.

what wasn’t known was tactics" the where and when" but the how was rather easy to sussout.

There first objective would be the establishment of there beach head. either an occupied site or a barren site. barren sites well they have plenty of acreage to choose from, occupied well that’s basically broome or Darwin.
If it was to be an occupied site it would need to be of a size with an infrastructure to support 0.5 to 1 million troops and support, ( mainly water). an unoccupied site and every thing would have to be shipped over including water.
We could also assume that Indonesia would be able to form a Cap over there ever there beach head would be.

Stage one, they would need to form air superiority over there intended landing area. They have 2 tools to achieve this, 1 there own fighter aircraft. We needed some to match this hence the hornets, the F1-11 are out of there liege in this arena. 2nd interdiction by sabotage, an easy thing for this to happen in Australia mainly because the average Australian is just so un security aware.
The landing itself. its a bit hard to hide 100 or even 50 ships heading in the same direction, this is where the F1-11 would come into there own, Hopefully Australia had maintained air superiority by that time. along with the subs who we hope would have been shadowing the Indonesian fleet and it would be a safe assumption that the fleet would leave the northern shores of Indonesia and swing way out west if heading for broome or a quick trip around to the east if going for Darwin.

ok what the aussie pollies did, about the Russian navy cant do much, but the yanks had just cut a deal with Indonesia to sell then F18s, so what happened we got some f18s as well but wait there’s more a hole bunch of mothballed F1-11 seem to have found there way from and American desert to an aussie airstrip, all nice and shiny and with new power plants electronics etc.

i will save NZs role in all this for now.

Originally Posted by clean32

A bit of good stuff posted but its a bit incomplete, if we leave the politics out of it at the moment.

Before that I will chuck in a bit of business fact. weapons systems may be built by different companies but they are built hand in hand. If you wish to strap an American missile on to a Russian fighter you will quickly fined that there are no more missiles available to you. Apart from the fact that it would be a major exercise and an expensive one, if achievable at all.

now about Indonesia, it was not that long ago that Indonesians were raging in the streets and shouting," Indonesia much people no land, Australia much land no people". At that time it was really serial do-da and a task that got me 6 weeks in a Jakarta jail.

At about the same time Indonesia invested in an instant Navy, 126 ships were delivered from the Russians ( in default at that time).
Add to that the purchase by Indonesia of a bunch of F18s ( i think it was F18s) as well as the factory to build then locally.
As well as Indonesia’s policy of swelling its militias ranks to the point of toping 2 millions under arms

The only missing peace of the hardware jigsaw was landing craft or the ability of getting there hardware onto Australian shores.

The proverbial sticky stuff hit the spinning round thing big time when the intell of Indonesia starting to build its own craft. A bit like a cut down and lower version of a LSD of ww2.

what wasn’t known was tactics" the where and when" but the how was rather easy to sussout.

There first objective would be the establishment of there beach head. either an occupied site or a barren site. barren sites well they have plenty of acreage to choose from, occupied well that’s basically broome or Darwin.
If it was to be an occupied site it would need to be of a size with an infrastructure to support 0.5 to 1 million troops and support, ( mainly water). an unoccupied site and every thing would have to be shipped over including water.
We could also assume that Indonesia would be able to form a Cap over there ever there beach head would be.

Stage one, they would need to form air superiority over there intended landing area. They have 2 tools to achieve this, 1 there own fighter aircraft. We needed some to match this hence the hornets, the F1-11 are out of there liege in this arena. 2nd interdiction by sabotage, an easy thing for this to happen in Australia mainly because the average Australian is just so un security aware.
The landing itself. its a bit hard to hide 100 or even 50 ships heading in the same direction, this is where the F1-11 would come into there own, Hopefully Australia had maintained air superiority by that time. along with the subs who we hope would have been shadowing the Indonesian fleet and it would be a safe assumption that the fleet would leave the northern shores of Indonesia and swing way out west if heading for broome or a quick trip around to the east if going for Darwin.

ok what the aussie pollies did, about the Russian navy cant do much, but the yanks had just cut a deal with Indonesia to sell then F18s, so what happened we got some f18s as well but wait there’s more a hole bunch of mothballed F1-11 seem to have found there way from and American desert to an aussie airstrip, all nice and shiny and with new power plants electronics etc.

i will save NZs role in all this for now.

So perhaps it is a real good thing that after Port Arthur, and many types of guns were banned, lots of Australians living in the Country farming areas we buying sewer pipes and end caps to bury their guns--as long as if we are ever invaded that they remember where they buried them.

I well remember mates in the ADF and Reserves training against the mythical 'Masuria' (sp?) from the north, a country whose tactics, troops, etc looked suspiciously like a near northern neighbour, but when we used to talk about it (and remember, they were all only grunts, RAEME's etc) we kept getting back to lines of supply.

IMO northern Australia just isn't doable for a full on invasion/occupation, it's pie in the sky, unless you are the Yanks.

Originally Posted by rick130

IMO northern Australia just isn't doable for a full on invasion/occupation, it's pie in the sky, unless you are the Yanks.

Imagine 300 000 troops with logistics parked in and around broome, say 2/3 the way down to Perth, maybe even Perth? and 2/3 the way across to Darwin and ½ way in towards Alice. Also lets assume that the 2 air forces have extinguished themselves and its down to boots wheels and tracks.

What would happen next?

Bottom line, do the Indonesians have the capability/capacity for a long term occupation of a hostile environment and hostile inhabitants that far from home ?

I honestly have no idea but would guess not, so it's never concerned me. Harassing raids for political persuasion yes, full on occupation I juts can't see.

Originally Posted by rick130

Bottom line, do the Indonesians have the capability/capacity for a long term occupation of a hostile environment and hostile inhabitants that far from home ?.

YES

and think about it, its not that far, if boat peaple can turn up in rotting old fishing boats powerd by 50 year old lister motors etc

hostile environment and hostile inhabitants?? enviroment thay can over come just like the aussies that live up that way but as for hostile inhabitants, aussies are getting fatter not faster LOL.

Originally Posted by rick130

I honestly have no idea but would guess not, so it's never concerned me. Harassing raids for political persuasion yes, full on occupation I juts can't see.

um the worlds 4rd largest population vers Australia??

Or put it another way 3.5% of the worlds population vers 0.30% ( check the numbers its some thing like that)

The feds are not totally stupid they spent 100s of milions moving the army and airforce to the area where they were needed look at whats up north that might be attractive to indon worlds largest diamond mine largest alumina mine huge amounts of iron ore and very few people the whole population of the NT and north of WA is what 1 mil? as far as i know the sevices still train to oppose an insurgency from indon as our biggest threat it was the reason for Norforce and the Pilbara regt being formed. As a bomber the f111 still has no replacment or equal even the super hornets dont come close but with 2 ac carriers that we are calling LHDs we could come close.
yes Musria (spelling) is/was a mythical muslim nation to our north we were not allowed to call them indonesia

OK asked some questions to check on what I posted before.

Indonesia purchased 12 F16s and the factory to build them

A bit of the NZ thing. like the ADF and there FN-40s, what’s happened to RNZAFs A4s, well they are still there.

The A4 is a misunderstood aircraft, slower than a F1-11 and much smaller, it is a how ever little flying dump truck. but its biggest advantage is that its a hot little ship. now as NZ always had 1 squadron of A4s based in aussie and usually playing with the aussie navy. Why? when aussie has much more and faster aircraft. well simple the A4 is also the backbone of the Indonesian airforce, they have 33 of them. But like NZ they are now mothballed as well

any way we are talking about the past, Indonesia is no longer killing Chinese in the streets, that government has fallen, been replaced, arrested charged convicted and some executed.