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Thread: Carbon Tax. Well someone had to bring it up!

  1. #311
    DiscoMick Guest
    Just becaue you believe in creation doesn't necessarily mean you believe that theory about the earth only being 6000 years old. Climate history shows the earth is millions of years old. We've been in an ice age for a million years. Before that the earth became too hot for the dinosaurs. I believe in creation but that's no reason to dispute the accepted science about the earth's history. Evolution and creation are simply two ways of explaining the same thing (one scientific and one poetic); no problem with that. It's like one person saying he is in love using poetry and another giving a scientific explanation of the effects of love on the body; same topic but different language. That's fine with me.

  2. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnF View Post
    Here is an item from an E-mail Newsletter [Creation Research "Evidence News 17/11 - 20th July 2011‏"] that I do get.

    "4. COAL BURNING STOPPED GLOBAL WARMING, according to an article in PNAS 5 July 2011, doi: 10.1073/pnas.1102467108, also reported by Reuters 5 July. Researchers from Boston and Harvard Universities, USA and University of Turku, Finland have sought to explain why the earth did not warm over the decade from 1998 to 2008, in spite of rising carbon dioxide levels. They begin their abstract with this admission: “Given the widely noted increase in the warming effects of rising greenhouse gas concentrations, it has been unclear why global surface temperatures did not rise between 1998 and 2008.” The researchers noted during this time there was a decrease in solar radiation and cyclical shift from an El Niño pattern to a La Niña climate pattern, but they concluded that the cooling effect came mainly from an increase in coal burning, mainly in China, which produced more sulphurous emissions. They also suggest “The post 1970 period of warming, which constitutes a significant portion of the increase in global surface temperature since the mid 20th century, is driven by efforts to reduce air pollution in general and acid deposition in particular, which cause sulfur emissions to decline while the concentration of greenhouse gases continues to rise.”
    Link: Reuters

    ED. COM. The decade in question was replete with dire warnings of catastrophic global warming due to increasing man-made carbon dioxide, but as these researchers admit in a mainstream, peer reviewed scientific journal, there was no warming between 1998 and 2008. There was also no warming between Thursday last week and Monday this week, and that is no more ridiculous than thinking that a comparison of the temperature in 1998 and 2008 tells you anything about climate change. Climate change is a long term phenomenon. In relation to climate, the difference between 1998 and 2008 isn't really any more relevant than the difference between last Thursday and this Monday. Look at the graph below and you will see why the frequently quoted 1998 to 2008 is obviously an example of cherry picking dates to suit a flawed argument. Can you honestly look at that graph and say that the trend over the last couple of centuries has not been upward? There has been no more warming since then either. If these researchers’ conclusions are correct, what a dilemma for the environmentalists! They loudly proclaim we must do whatever it takes to stop global warming, but they can hardly promote increasing chemical pollution. The solution to the problem is stop thinking that human activity warms and cools the earth and therefore we can control the climate. As the researchers admit solar radiation decreased and ocean currents changed during the decade of their study, but we cannot control these. Climate researchers, environmentalists and politicians need to humble themselves and admit the earth’s climate is under the control of the Creator God who does control the sun and the oceans. Surely the opposite is true. How can you use an article that shows that man made sulphurous emissions are masking the effect of greenhouse gases to dismiss the notion of human activity affecting climate? Surely it is proof that it does have an effect. They can then put their efforts into doing the things we can control, such as cleaning up chemical pollution, planting trees, and other things that are good stewardship of the earth. (Ref. climate, politics, weather)"

    It is interesting that during the 1800s when much coal was burnt to power industry-- their motors driving their machines were steam-- that the global temperature actually cooled down, not increased.

    Oh and the current Tweed Sun Newspaper has an article that points out that an increased CO2 does not increase the temperature, but decreases the temperature. So much for global warming.
    My reading of what you have posted is that it says global warming is occurring and that its effect is being partially and presumably temporarily masked by other forms of pollution.


    1973 Series III LWB 1983 - 2006
    1998 300 Tdi Defender Trayback 2006 - often fitted with a Trayon slide-on camper.

  3. #313
    85 county is offline AULRO Holiday Reward Points Winner!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATH View Post
    Hi 85 County.
    I'm sure the USGS is well able to take into account those things you state in your post, much better able and qualified than those turkeys in parliament, or you and I.
    And no where can I see where I was being alarmist but you're obviously a warmist so you can read what you like into any ones post.
    AlanH.
    what makes you acuse me of being a wormist?? is it because i pointed out the error inthe rubbish you posted?
    i doint think that makes me a wormest! it just makes me correct and you wrong.
    the United states Geology service is where i got my information from.

  4. #314
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    I thought a "wormist" was someone who loved worms. No accounting for taste I suppose.
    AlanH.

  5. #315
    Davehoos Guest
    come on mates CARBON TAX this has nothing to do with global warming.

    Its a carbon tax/pollution tax.No politition has claimed this will achieve anything but change your activities and make you feel good.
    they have all agreed politition and science combined that its sucess cant be measured for 100+ yrs.

    the government web site shows it will cost me extra $300 per year.
    they give us $400 in compensation.anybody else done the maths.

    with accounting like that why would yoou vote these fools in.
    and where is the web site that shows the cost in 2018.

    this isnt about "deadly" global warming-my bum hurts every time I hear that.its about realection and tax redistrobution.
    tax reform is less popular than labour reform.and we need these more.

  6. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davehoos View Post
    come on mates CARBON TAX this has nothing to do with global warming.
    It does if you accept the proposition that one effect of the carbon tax will be that people will change their habits and industries will find less carbon intensive and therefore cheaper ways of operating. There is evidence to suggest that such changes might help slow down global warming.

    So some people see a connection between those two things which is much stronger than the connection between carbon tax and some of the other things that have been mentioned.

    I am guessing that you don't accept at least part of those propositions. If that is the case, then you probably wouldn't see a connection and that's fine, except that some people do accept those propositions and therefore see that comments about global warming could have some relevance.

    1973 Series III LWB 1983 - 2006
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  7. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davehoos View Post
    come on mates CARBON TAX this has nothing to do with global warming.

    Its a carbon tax/pollution tax.No politition has claimed this will achieve anything but change your activities and make you feel good.
    they have all agreed politition and science combined that its sucess cant be measured for 100+ yrs.

    the government web site shows it will cost me extra $300 per year.
    they give us $400 in compensation.anybody else done the maths.

    with accounting like that why would yoou vote these fools in.
    and where is the web site that shows the cost in 2018.

    this isnt about "deadly" global warming-my bum hurts every time I hear that.its about realection and tax redistrobution.
    tax reform is less popular than labour reform.and we need these more.
    Thats the opinion of the Liberal Party only due to their blanket policy to oppose everything put forward - you can see this in their shifting views. Scientists and economists on the whole disagree with the Liberal party.
    Cheers
    Slunnie


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  8. #318
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    I believe climate change is real enough and has happened since the year dot. What I don't believe is the effect that our carbon emmissions are supposed to have on it, spouted by the gov. and their science bunnies who rely on them for funds.
    And whenever I see government being enthusiastic about anything, I get very suspicious, especially when it involves wads of our hard earned being transfered to them.
    What is really necessary is less people in the world, less hacking down of forests where ever they are, including Tasmania, and less pollution of all kinds.
    And less bloody useless politicians!
    AlanH.

  9. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATH View Post
    And whenever I see government being enthusiastic about anything, I get very suspicious, especially when it involves wads of our hard earned being transfered to them.
    AlanH.
    ??
    A bit over half of the money raised will go to taxpayers to offset the increased prices they will face and almost half will be directed into developing low carbon technologies.

    That doesn't leave much for the politicians.

    1973 Series III LWB 1983 - 2006
    1998 300 Tdi Defender Trayback 2006 - often fitted with a Trayon slide-on camper.

  10. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by ATH View Post
    .................................................. .............
    What is really necessary is less people in the world, less hacking down of forests where ever they are, including Tasmania, and less pollution of all kinds.
    And less bloody useless politicians!
    AlanH.
    Legetimate comment, but it is interesting that we the people on the developed countries (and the biggest consumers) we ask the poor countries to stop logging or not develop their natural resources but when we have to sacrifice the cost of $ 10 or $ 20 a week we do not like it.

    If we ask Brasil or Indonesia to stop logging it is a reponsible request but when people are asking to stop the logging in Australia then are categorized as Green ferals or other qualifications.

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