this would make me very nervous, record gun sales in US

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Originally Posted by rick130

Who ? and resistance against an armed, professional army ? Really ?

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Yep, worked in France in the 1940's.

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How people act and react in daily life has everything to do with it.
So many people don't act responsibly already and do plain dumb things when driving cars, people walking out in front of cars, etc, why would it be any different if it was open slather with handguns ?

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I don't recall advocating "open slather"

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At the moment if someone really wants to go shooting, with the legislative hoops they have to jump through they are more than likely going to be a little more responsible in their attitude and handling of same too.

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Except of course that the irresponsible people are the ones who get guns illegally and don't hold a firearms licence.

It's only the law abiding who suffer from tougher gun laws, that criminals aren't going to obey anyway!

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Having said that there were blokes I knew who were licensed shooters I would never go away with on a shooting weekend,

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Bloody oath. If someone tells me they like to get on the **** after a day's hunt and THEN go spotlighting... (for example) I won't be anywhere near there !

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How losing so many rights yet being able to keep a firearm is freedom I'm really not sure.

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I didn't mean owning firearms means freedom.
I meant that an increasingly authoritatrian government is a worry and that it can get worse and worse and worse until people have just had enough. Then what?
(and I don't just mean the USA, it can apply anywhere)

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Here in Oz we still have so many longarms and can still go hunting/target shooting whenever we want.

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Well, numerically perhaps but apparently I couldn't be trusted with my pump action shotgun or semi-auto .22 rifle.
Nor can we hunt "whenver we want". There are increasing restrictions on where and when we can hunt. There are a lot of reasons for that and not all are directly related to legislation though.

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The stats I've seen suggest more legal firearms in circulation now than before Mr Howard's infamous 'buyback'. (and yes, I was affected by that too, a stupid waste of time and money)

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Yes that's true, and yes, it was. Even the term "buyback" is insulting. First of all they never owned them in teh first place to "buy them bacK' Secondly it was a compulsory acquisition.

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There is so much disinformation from both sides of the debate it gets silly
People from the US I talk to are genuinely surprised we go shooting.
"Didn't you have all your guns taken away...." is a common response.
When they hear how often we actually go out hunting and shooting they are genuinely gobsmacked.

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Yes, some are.

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All because the pro-gun lobby in the US (read NRA) keeps spreading disinformation about the rest of the world.

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No, not really. Haven't you noticed that at every public speaking opportunity Howard gets he cites his gun laws as the achievement of which he is most proud?

I'd suggest that there are a LOT of people spreading disinformation - the so called "green" groups for a start. And "Gun Control Australia" which issues press releases which are baseless. GCA is much like the "council for civil liberties" or Harold Scrubys "pedestrian council". A few people in an office looking for anything to their own personal advantage or to feed their ego, or drum up business.

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I've learnt to take arguments from both pro and anti-gun control groups with a bucket load of salt.

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Rightly so.

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Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

You know him too? (except he's my second cousin's mate, that knows the guy who heard.) :o

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I was at the supermarket and overheard a guy tell this other guy in line in front of me that he knew a bloke who'd served in the special forces (he didnt say which country). Anyway this special forces guy knew another guy in the Seals, who had heard from a mate in the SAS that the chips at Red Rooster are better than the ones at Maccas and he's right !

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Originally Posted by billy bob

Australia holds the record for the most people killed in one massacre.

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A lot of people seem to be missing the point. Can anyone else see the irony in claiming a record for the most people killed? Where are we headed if this is how we view this subject. A point I would to make is, the USA has the strongest military in the World, and their " home guard" , the National Guard , are equipped better than most Armies in the World. So, their citizens can not be concerned about invasion, that begs the question, why are normally law abiding US citizens arming themselves. No one has satisfactorily answered that question. Bob

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Originally Posted by bob10

A lot of people seem to be missing the point. Can anyone else see the irony in claiming a record for the most people killed? Where are we headed if this is how we view this subject. A point I would to make is, the USA has the strongest military in the World, and their " home guard" , the National Guard , are equipped better than most Armies in the World. So, their citizens can not be concerned about invasion, that begs the question, why are normally law abiding US citizens arming themselves. No one has satisfactorily answered that question. Bob

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They think Obama is going to toughen up the gun control laws so want to get in and stock up before that happens.

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Originally Posted by bob10

A lot of people seem to be missing the point. Can anyone else see the irony in claiming a record for the most people killed? Where are we headed if this is how we view this subject. A point I would to make is, the USA has the strongest military in the World, and their " home guard" , the National Guard , are equipped better than most Armies in the World. So, their citizens can not be concerned about invasion, that begs the question, why are normally law abiding US citizens arming themselves. No one has satisfactorily answered that question. Bob

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The intent of the 2A is to arm the people for defence against a tyrannical govt. It is not for defence against an external force. It is the amendment intendeded to safeguard the rest of the constitution. As someone once said, "Washington didn’t use his right to free speech to defeat the British, he shot them."

I'm particularly intriged by this statement -

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Originally Posted by bob10

that begs the question, why are normally law abiding US citizens arming themselves. No one has satisfactorily answered that question. Bob

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One does not change from being law-abiding to criminal when you arm yourself. In fact it's exactly the opposite. They are just choosing to exercise their God-given right to arm themselves and be personally responsible for their own safety. Australians don't have that right.

They have realised that the police have no obligation to protect them. They are only obliged to do the paperwork.

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Originally Posted by PAT303

No one is going to invade us,no one is going to exterminate us and no one is going to put us in camps. Pat

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What about the government taking away your rights?
They could make themselves have enough power to do what they want and your rights will be washed down the drain.

I'm 100% certain that once you see or witness your own rights being trampled on you'll realise that the simplest solution would be allowing citizens to have an easy access to firearms and training for their own safety and protection. Our freedom is being able to defend ourselves, without firearms we wouldn't have freedom.

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Originally Posted by VladTepes

I was at the supermarket and overheard a guy tell this other guy in line in front of me that he knew a bloke who'd served in the special forces (he didnt say which country). Anyway this special forces guy knew another guy in the Seals, who had heard from a mate in the SAS that the chips at Red Rooster are better than the ones at Maccas and he's right !

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But the Burgers are better at Hungry Jacks! ;)

Back to the issue at hand, yes there are problems where the wrong people get a hold of guns, there are also problems of people who get hold of knives, machetes, bows and arrows, rocks and even automobiles.

Then there are problems where the wrong people can get hold of bombs.

It doesn't matter what laws are put in place the wrong people (mentally ill) and criminals will always be able to get access to or manufacture tools of destruction and death.

and another

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Originally Posted by waz

One does not change from being law-abiding to criminal when you arm yourself. In fact it's exactly the opposite. They are just choosing to exercise their God-given right to arm themselves and be personally responsible for their own safety. Australians don't have that right.

They have realised that the police have no obligation to protect them. They are only obliged to do the paperwork.

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What a disturbing statement. Anarchy is just around the corner , is it. No one has the "right" to take anothers life. Since when was this" God "given, only an American or a radical taliban member would think like that. [ meant in the nicest possible way] Bob

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Originally Posted by Land-Rover

What about the government taking away your rights?
They could make themselves have enough power to do what they want and your rights will be washed down the drain.

I'm 100% certain that once you see or witness your own rights being trampled on you'll realise that the simplest solution would be allowing citizens to have an easy access to firearms and training for their own safety and protection. Our freedom is being able to defend ourselves, without firearms we wouldn't have freedom.

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Mate, I don't know about the government, but you frighten me. Cheers, Bob