Thread: Cyclists.

a guy on a bike today was holding up traffic. traffic banked up for about 2km.
riding in the middle of the left land at walking pace.

whats the problem i hear you ask?

there is a god damn mother ****ing bike lane half a meter to his left that he should be using.

I'm positive there are some cyclists that aren't ever going to 'fit in' on the roads without a law mandating mirrors. I've mentioned it before, as when I cycle I use a mirror and never have an unexpected incident, most cyclists don't get it. So in keeping with our nanny state evolution, government should consider making mirrors on bikes mandatory (and a bell!).

Below is a very good read from a cyclist forum, where an experienced, mature and intelligent bloke, tries PATIENTLY to expose the safety and 'harmony' that instantly comes from having a mirror on a bike.

What is revealed in this thread, is an overwhelming backlash from his comrades, failing to grasp the enormous benefits all backed up with well written expos's of this gentleman's experiences that back up his mirror suggestion. Even I was shocked at how some of these muppets fail to grasp the simple notion of situational awareness, we have a massive battle ahead if we expect the majority of cyclists to take even SOME responsibility for their own safety.

Here is an insight to the cyclists view...and SEVEN PAGES of mostly critical replies some encouraging dangerous lane blocking on high speed roads???

Where bike mirrors could have prevented three incidents this morning - Adelaide Cyclists

Where bike mirrors could have prevented three incidents this morning

Posted by john mills on March 9, 2016 at 14:34 in Cycling in Adelaide
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The big picture #1- I believe that bike mirrors save lives - both of bike riders and also motorists

The big picture #2 - with a heightened awareness of the new safety rules re passing distances I feel that many motorists are doing their best to do the right thing and be extra careful to pass cyclists safely. But with the 'them Vs us' war that continues to fester I think cyclists should do their best too to make it easier for motorists to pass safel (without being silly or dangerous on our part of course). So, if we ride in such a way that either infuriates motorists, or in fact endangers them, then we create even more enemies and that just escalates the 'war'.

The three incidents on our 6 rider group ride. I was at the back for these incidents. I was the only one that had a mirror . . . . -

1. We rode through a new suburb for about 1 km where there was a bike lane, and the single lane road was divided with a concrete median strip up the middle.

At least one rider, the one in front of me, rode the whole distance practically on the white line on the right edge of the bike lane. I was at the back. There was a car crawling along at our speed just behind me, not wanting to pass. I was riding in the middle of the bike lane, if not a little to left of middle. There were two other cars behind the first, all being held up.

The same scenario played out for nearly another km after that, when another couple of cars were also held up by the bike riders. (I had given up calling "Car back" to said rider earlier in the ride when on two occasions when I called their was no response from him.)

I feel that if he had had a mirror, and used it of course, he might have done 'done the right thing' and moved fully into the bike lane rather than 'sitting on the white line'. I don't think he new the car was there, as it was a modern car with a quiet motor, and I was about 5 metres behind that rider. So the car would have been at least 10 metres behind him, and I could barely hear it myself.

2. A bit later we were riding on a busy road in Gawler East - Calton Road. Again I was at the back, and there was a fair gap, about 20m between myself and the other riders. There was a lot of traffic in both directions, and this is a narrow, single lane road. I noticed that there was at least one rider riding two abreast in the bunch of 5 riders ahead. And the other riders were no where near the edge of the bitumen. There was a 4x4 being held up. I assumed they were chatting. Apparently the rider out in the middle was having trouble with her gears, I was told later. But again, if any of the group had a mirror, they could have said - 'let's get off the road to solve the problem, we are holding cars up'. Finally the 4x4 was able to get around, at speed. That driver was so incensed she pulled up and yelled at us as we went past. I feel we had created another 'enemy' in the war, and no doubt many more as the story gets spread around!

And again, if only the riders had mirrors . . . .

3. On the way home two riders decided to stay on the main road between Lyndoch and Gawler. The rest of the group were on the Jack Bobridge bike track which was elevated at this point. So I had a good view of this incident. They went flying past us. At the same time two cars overtook them. Both cars blasted their horns in anger. The two riders were about 40 - 80m metres apart. So the same scenario for each rider, about 6 or 10 seconds apart. I took careful notice just after the second rider was tooted, as he was adjacent me. It was a sweeping blind corner to the left. The second rider was riding on the white line. There seemed to be about 80cm - 1m of paved verge to the left of the white line. I think it was an 80km/hr speed limit at that blind bend.

Because I have many km of riding on these B class highways, on long distance Audax rides, I have personally had a lot of time to think about safety on blind corners and blind crests. If there is no car coming up from behind, then there is no problem. But if there is, I move as far to the left as necessary so that I do not either force the overtaking car to slow down to my speed, or cause the driver to risk crossing the double line at a dangerous place.

Sometimes there is a nice wide paved verge and I just need to move right over to the near of the verge. Sometimes there is no verge and so Leave the bitumen, carefully and move over onto the dirt. Of course this often requires me to brake on the bitumen first, so that I don't risk skidding in loose gravel and falling. (I use 25mm and 28mm tyres to make it safer to leave the bitumen and ride on loose surfaces. Often I need to do this on straight, narrow roads where there is not enough width for a bike, and two vehicles all passing at the same point.) So if I do need to leave the bitumen I need to know well before the last moment, so that I have time to lose some speed first. And all this needs to be done in plenty of time for the overtaking car to see what I am doing. Hence the use of a mirror when ever I see an upcoming blind corner or crest, or a car or truck coming towards me on a straight road.

But, these two riders had no mirror. And obviously have not thought through the implications of riding 'on the white line', around a blind corner, on a narrow road, with overtaking vehicles needing to offer at least 1.5m clearance. A bit hard to do safely on a bend at 80km/hr. Even with no mirror they could have moved right over to the left of the bitumen, well left of the white line. But with no mirror, and therefore no well rehearsed procedure to use the mirror approaching a blind corner, they just barreled along oblivious to other road users.

So why am carrying on. Because I am quite angry and upset. Sorry. But of course when I tried to explain all these issues I got practically no where. I was cut off at every attempt with some of those riders just coming up with all sorts of reasons why the motorists were at fault. Or that they shouldn't be forced to ride in a bike lane because there might be glass and they don't want a puncture. Or "the other day a motorist did this to me . . ."

And the simple message I am trying to get across is - get a mirror. Know what is happening behind". Once you know, then you can decide what action is appropriate. But id you don't even know, or don't know how to use a mirror in a systematic way (aka blind coners, crests, approaching vehicle on a narrow road) . . .

Imagine the scenario if one of those cars overtaking those two bikes had encountered a car coming around that corner. There right wheels just on the double lines, or just over, try not to hit the bike, the car coming the other way, cutting the corner a bit because they were going fast . . . Head on collison! Or bike rider hit. OK, the cars should have slowed down and stayed behind the bikes till around the corner. But try telling that to the friends and relatives at the funeral(s). When people have been killed, it is not much help to know who was guilty. All for the lack of a $25 mirror!

There are some cyclists who will never fit in. Just as there are some motorists who will never fit in, and are so incompetent (or worse sociopathic) that they endanger others on the road, be it pedestrians, cyclists or other vehicles.

When I ride I don't expect extra special care and attention, what I do expect is that everyone has appropriate and equal care and attention for all road users. That care and attention requirement of course varies according to scenario, like at school times being aware there could be kids about, or weekends there could be riders about, or in the cbd there will be pedestrians etc.

If that means me pulling over on the bike to let vehicles through, or on a bunch ride moving to single lines to do the same that's fine. It's no different to me pulling over when I am towing the camper trailer. Quid pro quo, if it is not safe to pass then the vehicle should wait behind until it is safe.

Personally I don't use a mirror as I have found a head check and ears are sufficient. There are cyclists who ride with earphones, I don't understand how they know what is around them. But then I see plenty of drivers with headphones in also.

Sadly there are clowns out there, no matter what the mode of transport. Some are just incompetent, unfortunately some are unbalanced and should be removed from the road regardless of what type of transport they roll with.

Greatsoutherland,..Great post,..don't know where you get the patience.
Yes, cyclists, just to the right of the right line, ...with HEAPS of space in the bike lane,...I described the same thing in a recent post,....how many times have I seen it?....literally thousands of times,...holding up the traffic in single lanes, because car drivers are frightened to get too close,because they DO have respect,.....see it all the time.
But of course if I mention it, I'm "anti cyclist"?...Yeah right.
Pickles.

There are reasons not to ride in a bike lane which runs alongside traffic lane.

Sometimes they are alongside parked cars. The council bigs itself up on providing cycling infrastructure but in reality they are a serious dooring risk. The cyclist knows that and rides wide, the motorist gets the impression the cyclist is being unreasonable.

They can also be debris traps where they are effectively the hard shoulder. Passing traffic tends to sweep debris into them (bogans throwing bottles out of the window don't help either). Unless the road sweepers come through regularly the lane becomes unsafe.

The dooring problem I see a lot in town, the debris more out of town.

Not excusing the clown who rides wide without reason, just flagging there may a reason next time yo used a cyclist out of / on the edge of the bike lane

Simon

Originally Posted by Simon

Sometimes they are alongside parked cars. The council bigs itself up on providing cycling infrastructure but in reality they are a serious dooring risk. The cyclist knows that and rides wide, the motorist gets the impression the cyclist is being unreasonable.

in this particular instance, car parking on the side of the road was removed to make the bike lane.

Then, absent some other reason that was not obvious, they may well be one of the clowns I referred to.

Just like the car at a ped crossing (light governed) yesterday, who decided to drive at me to force through simply because the green man had turned to flashing red after I had started to cross.

Originally Posted by Simon

Then, absent some other reason that was not obvious, they may well be one of the clowns I referred to.

i suspect clown.