Thread: Big storm and no power in SA

Originally Posted by AndyG

Educate me, after stripping out subsidies how is solar and wind power cheaper than coal power. Wind, solar have many attributes, but I don't think cheapness is one of them, especially when you factor in backup power for those nights with no wind.

Electricity is a competitive market. Once built, wind and solar have much lower operating costs. So they can offer electricity to the market at a low charge.

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Sorry, Capex cost over effective life cannot be ignored.

Or if you prefer, the ATO Depreciation Rate for Solar is 5 year, Wind 20 years.

I am sure you take purchase price into consideration when buying your own gear

[ame]http://www.tai.org.au/sites/defualt/files/WP118_7.pdf[/ame]

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Electricity is a competitive market. Once built, wind and solar have much lower operating costs. So they can offer electricity to the market at a low charge.

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They are heavily subsidised, with STC's or LGC's.

https://www.rec-registry.gov.au/rec-.../what-is-a-rec

Wind and solar are dearer forms of energy, brown coal is still pretty much the cheapest for, of power available, 1. You can't say "once built" as its like saying once a house is built the rent is cheap.. 2. Wind most certainly is not cheap when it comes to operating costs, it's actually extremely expensive and requires a lot of maintenance

Please inform yourself prior to posting again or atleast begin with, I think...

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Electricity is a competitive market. Once built, wind and solar have much lower operating costs. So they can offer electricity to the market at a low charge.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

[ame]http://www.eia.gov/forecasts/aeo/assumptions/pdf/table_8.2.pdf[/ame]

A few current facts, troublesome things, and some numbers that surprised me. Didn't realize sequestration was so expensive !

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Electricity is a competitive market. Once built, wind and solar have much lower operating costs. So they can offer electricity to the market at a low charge.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

If that was the case, then with the closure of Hazelwood, the electricity bills should be decreasing.
So, why are they telling us they will be increasing?

[ame]http://www.pc.gov.au/inquiries/completed/carbon-prices/report/carbon-prices.pdf[/ame]

The levelised cost of electricity (LCOE) is a widely-used measure of the cost of
electricity generation technologies. Estimates of the LCOE are sensitive to
assumptions about factors such as capital costs, the useful life of assets and the
technical efficiency of generation technologies. As such, they should be treated as an
indicative guide to the relative costs of various technologies.
The Electric Power Research Institute (2010) reported estimates of the LCOE of
various sources of electricity in Australia, including:

coal-fired electricity (without carbon capture and storage) ? A$78-91/MWh

combined-cycle gas turbines (without carbon capture and storage) ? A$97/MWh

wind ? A$150-214/MWh

medium-sized (five megawatt) solar PV systems ? A$400-473/MWh.
Smaller domestic PV systems are likely to have higher costs again. The high LCOE for
solar PV is one of the reasons that policies that subsidise solar PV have high implicit
abatement subsidies.
Source
: Electric Power Research Institute (2010).

Originally Posted by AndyG

Educate me, after stripping out subsidies how is solar and wind power cheaper than coal power. Wind, solar have many attributes, but I don't think cheapness is one of them, especially when you factor in backup power for those nights with no wind.

Isn't coal subsidised too?
I think I have see figures like $1.8b a year.

Originally Posted by vnx205

Isn't coal subsidised too?
I think I have see figures like $1.8b a year.

I have seen no evidence supporting that view. Perhaps you would like to supply some?
In the news reports I have read on Hazlewood, they cited part of the reason for closing was because taxes on coal had risen 300%.

http://reneweconomy.com.au/coal-prod...-a-year-77543/

http://reneweconomy.com.au/australia...-report-43490/

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-1...bsidie/5881814

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ener...y_of_Australia

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politi...01-ghe807.html