Thread: Law & Order is STUFFED.

Fully agree. This is not terrorist-related. The only reason these raids took place is to silence those who would expose government crimes.

The ABC raid was in retaliation for stories exposing that our troops had killed unarmed women and children.
The News Corp journalist raid was retaliation because the journalist reported on government plans to increase government spying on us - you and me and everyone.

Don't swallow the claims by Morrison and Dutton that the government had nothing to do with the raids. The raids happened BECAUSE the government referred these matters to the AFP.

And don't make the silly argument that if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to hide. Many innocent people get hunted down in these situations.

Did you see that facial recognition cameras were used to scan the crowd at the State of Origin game at Suncorp Stadium last night?

Remember, the next knock on your door may be your turn...

Kerry O'Brien says AFP raids on the ABC and Annika Smethurst 'go to the heart of democracy' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

I'd rather see a guilty person get off than see an innocent person convicted.

Blackstone's ratio - Wikipedia

In criminal law, Blackstone's ratio (also known as the Blackstone ratio or Blackstone's formulation) is the idea that:

It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer.^[1]

As expressed by the English jurist William Blackstone in his seminal work, Commentaries on the Laws of England, published in the 1760s.

The phrase was absorbed by the British legal system, becoming a maxim by the early 19th century.^[2] It was also absorbed into American common law, cited repeatedly by that country's Founding Fathers, later becoming a standard drilled into law students all the way into the 21st century.^[3]

Benjamin Franklin's version of Blackstone's Ratio is very commonly quoted

Other commentators have echoed the principle; Benjamin Franklin stated it as, "it is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer"

On the other hand .....

Authoritarian personalities tend to take the opposite view; Bismarck is believed to have stated that "it is better that ten innocent men suffer than one guilty man escape".^[7]Pol Pot made similar remarks.

Fortunately most people and most jurisdictions agree with William Blackstone and Benjamin Franklin rather than Bismark and Pol Pot.

Couldn't care less who raids who, if incriminating evidence is found ("ïncriminating" in terms of the law, whether you like or agree with that law is irrelevant), then the law has been broken,......if nothing is found, then all is good, no one is charged, life goes on.
I say Journos need to be accountable, same as anyone else, ESPECIALLY when Government secrets are exposed......I do NOT agree with confidential, secret, Govt stuff being exposed, no matter who's in Govt, or whose secret it is,....if it's supposed to be secret & classified as such, then it should remain so.
Pickles.

Having just watched the media conference by the Acting AFP Commissioner I am of the opinion that these "raids" have nothing to do with freedom of the press - which I support but within reason.

The issue being investigated is the unlawful release of Top Secret, Secret and AUSTEO documents which is a major offence - the subsequent publication of editorials by the media based on this information is not being investigated - at the moment.

The AFP have the person who released the information and that person has confessed (apparently no water boarding involved). However, despite the "confession" the AFP need evidence to further support their case against the individual and in the AFP's mind this evidence exists in the homes and offices of the journalists involved.

Now the AFP have a history of bending the law to suit and we will have to wait and see if these actions are indeed a threat to the 'Freedom of the Press' but at the moment the official line is that these actions are the acquisition of evidence to support the unauthorised release of classified information charge.

We will see, but I agree in the "freedom of the press" but in doing this journalist should not be breaking the law themselves or encouraging others to do so - but if information comes their way then journalists should be free to publish it.

Garry

I watched that too. I think it's reasonable to accept what the AFP say unless and until it's proven wrong. We should not assume that any time a Goverment instrumentality including a police force says something it is not true. We might as well become an anarchy if that is the broad approach. That's not to say healthy skepticism is not a good thing, but the knee jerk reaction of the sky falling just because journos get 'raided' (isn't that an overreach by the ABC News and others) is a bit much.

Cheers

Originally Posted by Pickles2

Couldn't care less who raids who, if incriminating evidence is found ("ïncriminating" in terms of the law, whether you like or agree with that law is irrelevant), then the law has been broken,......if nothing is found, then all is good, no one is charged, life goes on.
I say Journos need to be accountable, same as anyone else, ESPECIALLY when Government secrets are exposed......I do NOT agree with confidential, secret, Govt stuff being exposed, no matter who's in Govt, or whose secret it is,....if it's supposed to be secret & classified as such, then it should remain so.
Pickles.

I'm not saying journalists shouldn't be accountable

the problem is government and it's institutions can no longer be held accountable for abuse, by journalists and whistle blowers, as they were able to, until very recently.

if your acting for the government you cannot be found criminally liable for criminal acts / abuse carried out in the line of duty, according to the new act it seems

if your a journalist who exposes those criminal acts / abuse, you can / will be, it seems, held criminally responsible according to the new act

that of itself is a major problem IMHO

wanders off.....

I'll just repeat, these raids happened BECAUSE the government referred the leaks to the AFP. No referral, no raids.
I certainly think the people should know if the government is secretly plotting to spy on them, or if government employees murder unarmed innocent women and children.
Stop being mushrooms and stand up for freedom, before more of it is stolen away.

Mod hat on. Don't turn this political.