Thread: Holden - how long before the end?

Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

I think this is what you were really trying to say.

The thing is, in regards to the Camry, I might (if I had the money at the time) have bought one for the wife or daughter, but no way I would buy one for myself!
Sure, they're reliable, fairly safe, and hold their resale value well, but like most of the Asian-designed vehicles since the nineties, they have no character or "soul" - they're like household appliances. If the light goes on when you open the door - great! If it doesn't, you go and buy a new one. There's no emotional investment or attachment.
Most of us have bought a refrigerator at some time. But do you get a secret little thrill each time you walk into the kitchen and see it sitting there waiting for you?
For all their faults, Land Rovers of all kinds have character in abundance - that's why I'm on this forum, and why I have a driveway full of them!

Originally Posted by donh54

The thing is, in regards to the Camry, I might (if I had the money at the time) have bought one for the wife or daughter, but no way I would buy one for myself!
Sure, they're reliable, fairly safe, and hold their resale value well, but like most of the Asian-designed vehicles since the nineties, they have no character or "soul" - they're like household appliances. If the light goes on when you open the door - great! If it doesn't, you go and buy a new one. There's no emotional investment or attachment.
Most of us have bought a refrigerator at some time. But do you get a secret little thrill each time you walk into the kitchen and see it sitting there waiting for you?

The way I put it, the Camry is the beige of motor vehicles.

Only thing that kept them selling:

Step 1: Take big boofy V8 and Jam into body
Step 2: Jam nice wheels on
Step 3: market to testosterone fueled Males

They can’t tow anything serious, they can’t carry anything serious, so they’re just an audible boofhead machine... no legal practical capability at all...

Further evidence of this is the American solution - more power through bigger size. Shows a great lack of engineering prowess by the designers - where Europe develops high output V8s of much smaller capacities the USA solution is just more displacement.

Sure, I did the whole V8 thing...
VK Director
XE ESP 351
XC GS Panel Van
D1 5.0 Stroker with Powerdyne Blower
And a few others...

But they were, in hindsight, nothing but Ego strokers...

Holden kept this mindset and lost its core clients - capability, comfort, features, quality and frugal performance...

Long gone are the days of the family towing the Viscount with the Holden/Ford Sedan/Wagon... modern stuff just couldn’t do it...

Interesting comments.

The other factor is economies of scale in a global marketplace of multinational companies. Australia is just too small a market to justify its own vehicles.
You have to sell worldwide to make the investment justifiable. If GM had sold the Commodore in the USA and Europe it could have been viable, but instead GM protected its own vehicles and kept the Commodore out, so the numbers just weren't there. Same goes for Ford and, to a lesser extent, Toyota.

When the time America last July to get a new car , we got a new one , a Holden astra. After some price and online comparisons of what was available to us , this ticked enough boxes. Still happy with it despite note getting driven enough or far enough. At the time of purchase they did try and push the commodore quite a bit. We have no need for anything that big and heavy , it would be a tight squeeze into the garage , and those available weren’t available with a manual gearbox which we both prefer. All up the European “ Holden” is fine , no matter what the badge

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

If GM had sold the Commodore in the USA and Europe it could have been viable

It did.

Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

It did.

But even the US has been moving away from V8-powered rear wheel drive saloons/estates. It's all crossovers now. It didn't sell particularly well over there.

Holden should have spent the last five-ten years on a marketing campaign spruiking the European designed and built models and some R&D to make them more attuned to Australian conditions.

Originally Posted by 1950landy

I owned 9 Holden's( they were all great cars ) then I bought a VB Commodore ( not that you could call it a Holden) have not bought a GMH product since . My son in law has had Commodores I refuse to work on them , I changed the starter motor on one of them once , I would rather do 10 Falcon starter motors . Not sure how the new Commodores will go being made by Citroen Group . I owned a Citroen C4 once it was on a par with the VB.

Geez, the VB, VH and VN are a snap to work on....

Citroens.... yikes!

I stopped buying them after the VT. Had an HQ, HJ, HX, VB, VH, VN, VP and VT. And a Torana. The VN was the best one I owned IMO - only issue in 350,000KM was the fuel pump dying once. After a whack on the fuel tank I still got home ok and I bunged a new one in it.

The VE I had as a work car for 4 years was diabolical - 3 times on a tilt tray and once in limp mode back to the dealers. Faulty wiring loom (a weeks repair) and 2 ECU’s.

Had 200,000KM on it when it went back after it’s lease - it was completely buggered then - suspension was toast, engine guzzled oil (was serviced exactly to OEM recommendations) and trans had no idea what gear it needed to be in and made horrid banging noises when pushed hard so I doubt that lasted much longer.

And I drive it exactly the same as my own cars and how I drive the VN, so it isn’t driver abuse just because it was a company car.

I feel sorry for the poor sod that bought that one at auction...

That’s my point - not all the other stuff, which I’m sure is a factor, but the biggest thing they’ve stuffed is how they make cars - either very bad ones or ones the market isn’t interested in (or both).

Having been a Holden man all my life, I find it sad the way the marque is going - I’m not just ragging on them because I’m a ford man or anything, just that I think they’ve kicked a huge own goal which could cost them everything.