Thread: All 2019/20 bushfire comments here.

A heads up on the use of reserves in the fight.

© SMH ADF reservists prepare at Holsworthy Army Barracks.The legislative authority to do this has been in place since soon after Federation. Section 28 of the Defence Act (1903) allows the Governor‐General to approve a call-out of the reserves for continuous full-time service to assist commonwealth, state, territory or foreign government authorities and other agencies in situations involving Australia’s national security or affecting Australian wider defence interests. But there has never been a disaster of a scale big enough to motivate Australian governments to engage the complex protocols that allow it. The closest historical parallel is the response to Cyclone Tracy in December 1974, which involved the National Disasters Organisation, the RAN, RAAF, Army, Northern Territory police service and airlines.Importantly, the legislative context of the reserve force activation is to support community activities. There is no authority in the constitution or the Defence Act for the Commonwealth to take control of a significant national emergency response. The ADF will not lead state responses or be involved in specialised emergency responses where they have no training or certification to act.

Bold decision puts ADF specialists to work

Originally Posted by Homestar

Ok, time out everyone. This thread has got way too Political. Will be sifting through it now and weeding out all the Political content - if you have a post that disappears, that will be why.

No more please, leave all that in CA.

Noticed this in a news report. You have more influence than I thought.

According to

The New York Times,

a chalkboard sign placed recently outside the bookshop in the NSW village of Cobargo reads "Post-Apocalyptic Fiction has been moved to Current Affairs". Like the rest of us, the ADF will have to get used to the new normal these fires have thrust upon the country.

Sometimes the ordinary people get it right.


Thank God for Australia's army of 'ordinary people'

Making sense of a crisis. The Conversation. For an unbiased report .

6 January 2020

Today's newsletter sponsored by RMIT Academic rigour, journalistic flair

Editor's note When I awoke in the NSW south coast town of Bermagui on the last day of 2019, I should have twigged straight away. At 8am the sky was a gruesome orange-black, the surrounding bush freakishly quiet. Our mobile phones had no signal. Outside, my car was coated in soot. We knew fires were burning more than 100km up the coast at Batemans Bay, but Bermagui had seemed a safe distance away. Suddenly, it wasn’t. Fire was bearing down on the seaside town, burning so fiercely it created its own thunderstorm. Residents evacuated to the beach after emergency text messages at 4am, but with our phone service down we’d slept on, oblivious. When my partner and I woke and worked out what was happening, we too bundled our bewildered young son into the car and fled. With all roads out of Bermagui closed, we spent New Year’s Eve at a local club which had hastily been converted into an evacuation centre. Many evacuees were from the nearby fire-hit town of Cobargo. They watched, hands over their mouths, as the club’s giant plasma screens beamed images of their once-charming town, now a jumble of rubble and corrugated iron. We lay our doonas down between rows of poker machines and lined up for dinner with hundreds of other evacuees. Food supplies in the town had already run short – the shelves of the local Woolworths were all but empty. To feed the hordes, volunteers began rationing dinner portions to just half a sausage and a slice of bread. They had no idea where tomorrow’s meals would come from. When a road was finally opened, we escaped through blackened landscapes where sheep wandered paddocks with the wool burnt off their backs. My three-year-old son, sensing the mood, asked why his dad and I were so quiet. All this raises inevitable questions. To what extent is climate change driving these fires, and how much of that is Australia’s fault? Do we need a permanent, paid rural fire-fighting force to deal with this “new normal”? Are our fuel, food and communications systems resilient enough to cope with these disasters? And how do we cope with the deep anxiety these fires provoke, on both a personal and societal level? Over the coming days and weeks, The Conversation will examine the tough questions emerging from this crisis. Our authors, experts in the field, will cut through the political spin and barrage of information to help you understand this national disaster, and what it means for our future. Today, the University of Tasmania’s David Bowman examines whether it’s time to ditch the traditional summer holiday, when thousands of people head to bushy areas in peak bushfire season. And while the fires absorb our attention, Monash University’s Neville Nicholls reminds us that cyclones, floods and heatwaves are also likely this summer. When the immediate threat of these fires has passed, many bigger questions will remain. The Conversation will continue to bring you the responsible, evidence-based journalism you need to be properly informed. Thank you for your continued support. Nicole Hasham Section Editor: Energy + Environment

My observations
This fire threat and destruction has been going on where I live for almost 2 months
Time and Time again property has been under threat and some times lost.
These fires have hurt many incomes and business.
My area is mostly small mixed business with tourism a large income for the area during holidays
The X mas holiday incomes is stuffed.
Many people have complained but about lack of resources, especially if they have lost property or income.
I have never seen the RFS and all the many other departments big and small work so well together and been so well equipped.
yes some little things and communications some times went wrong...….it mostly has going very well.
It is not possible to have a fire tanker on every street corner.
Fire bombing aircraft cannot be in the air all the time and can not water bomb at night or in extremely strong winds or heavy smoke.
The local RFS have been lacking very little, except for man power which is very tired.
The volunteer RFS works for Australia, because we a large country with a small population.
we cannot afford to have a large standing full time paid RFS which may or may not be fully used every 20 years .
There has been a push to some how unionise the RFS for many many years and needs to be a paid system for that to happen and why a push from some sides of government for change.
I have seen, national parks, Navy,Army fire fighting services work together using different radio systems and management systems.
I have seen the news media hype up many aspects of the fires and the government system to suit themselves to make you read papers or watch TV adds.
I know the RFS have never been better trained in every way.
The trucks they use are less than 10 years old and fully equipped from top to bottom.
The air assets at very great cost to our government have been provided on a scale like never before.
I have thought the American idea for their pine forest type fires using large aircraft with retardant was not worth the cost and suitable for Australian forests.
After seeing the DC10 jet working and knocking very large and active fire fronts down straight away and saving property I have change my mine.
I remember the days when the local fire shed used a 25 year old two wheel drive truck with basic tools and tank with a petrol briggs and straton pump and a single 25mm hose.
This and the fire shed was totally provided by the local community.
The volunteers showed up on a Sunday at the shed and knocked back a few beers and wear shorts and blue singlet on a fire at the local tip.
The Government and Insurance companies ect now pick up the tab.
Donations are still welcome.
I am disgusted with the hard time some people in hard hit towns have been treating politicians.
What are the pollies suppose to do.....**** on the fires and they didn't start them either.
<edited>
I am not happy about people complaining about the garbage bins not being picked up on face book ...must have nothing better to do.
Well done to a system which has mostly come together from top to bottom in short notice with big problems to try and solve.
I also noticed no greenies where chained to the bulldozers pushing over the trees.
Ron

Now that things have calmed down a bit, I would like to post some information about our ADF assets that are/ may be used . Contrary to lunch time binge drinking contactors , Choules was not sitting on the building 215 bottle dump at GI. [ there wasn't any room] The two LHD's have been very busy training for high end war fighting, and getting the Army's amphib. battalion up to speed. [ 2 RAR]. In all, the three large amphib vessels have been busy in various parts of the Pacific, learning their trade. The ADF certainly does not need a disaster like we have at the moment to gain experience. Heaven forbid. They have been busy training for just such a situation. The ADF can only do what it has been tasked to do.

YouTube Adelaide RIMPAC

YouTube Choules Talisman sabre

YouTube Talisman sabre


YouTube Choules cyclone assist.

ok one more Choules was practising for disaster relief in 2012. YouTube

There are plenty more but my typing finger has RSI.

Originally Posted by 101 Ron

My observations
This fire threat and destruction has been going on where I live for almost 2 months
Time and Time again property has been under threat and some times lost.
These fires have hurt many incomes and business.
My area is mostly small mixed business with tourism a large income for the area during holidays
The X mas holiday incomes is stuffed.
Many people have complained but about lack of resources, especially if they have lost property or income.
I have never seen the RFS and all the many other departments big and small work so well together and been so well equipped.
yes some little things and communications some times went wrong...….it mostly has going very well.
It is not possible to have a fire tanker on every street corner.
Fire bombing aircraft cannot be in the air all the time and can not water bomb at night or in extremely strong winds or heavy smoke.
The local RFS have been lacking very little, except for man power which is very tired.
The volunteer RFS works for Australia, because we a large country with a small population.
we cannot afford to have a large standing full time paid RFS which may or may not be fully used every 20 years .
There has been a push to some how unionise the RFS for many many years and needs to be a paid system for that to happen and why a push from some sides of government for change.
I have seen, national parks, Navy,Army fire fighting services work together using different radio systems and management systems.
I have seen the news media hype up many aspects of the fires and the government system to suit themselves to make you read papers or watch TV adds.
I know the RFS have never been better trained in every way.
The trucks they use are less than 10 years old and fully equipped from top to bottom.
The air assets at very great cost to our government have been provided on a scale like never before.
I have thought the American idea for their pine forest type fires using large aircraft with retardant was not worth the cost of suitable for Australian forests.
After seeing the DC10 jet working and knocking very large and active fire fronts down straight away and saving property I have change my mine.
I remember the days when the local fire shed used a 25 year old two wheel drive truck with basic tools and tank with a petrol briggs and straton pump and a single 25mm hose.
This and the fire shed was totally provided by the local community.
The volunteers showed up on a Sunday at the shed and knocked back a few beers and wear shorts and blue singlet on a fire at the local tip.
The Government and Insurance companies ect now pick up the tab.
Donations are still welcome.
I am disgusted with the hard time some people in hard hit towns have been treating politicians.
What are the pollies suppose to do.....**** on the fires and they didn't start them either.
I am not happy about people complaining about the garbage bins not being picked up on face book ...must have nothing better to do.
Well done to a system which has mostly come together from top to bottom in short notice with big problems to try and solve.
I also notice no greenies where chained to the bulldozers pushing over the trees.
Ron

I agree with most of what you said.
Note however that many Greenies are actually volunteer firefighters and have been out fighting the fires. It's wrong for people with an agenda to try to blame Greenies for these fires. Often it's the Greenie volunteer firefighters who are actually doing the hazard reduction. Glen Innes, where 2 people died, is an example.

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

I agree with most of what you said.
Note however that many Greenies are actually volunteer firefighters and have been out fighting the fires. It's wrong for people with an agenda to try to blame Greenies for these fires. Often it's the Greenie volunteer firefighters who are actually doing the hazard reduction. Glen Innes, where 2 people died, is an example.

You’re mixing environmentally conscious in with Tree Hugging morons.

Big difference.

One recognises the natural requirements of fuel control etc.