Corona Virus

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Originally Posted by 350RRC

The excess deaths are literally the smoking gun.

DL

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Agreed. - A far more truthful metric than the emotive word "Cases"... - tested "positive" on a PCR, days off at home in bed, or hospital, or ICU... Better yet are OLD (previous) numbers, such as this (UK) graph from the first quarter (week 13) of this year. - 27,xxx deaths from ALL respiratory diseases over previous 5 year, compared to this year of ALL respiratory disease PLUS 'covid' deaths... of 25,xxx deaths !!!! TWO thousand lives saved. Oops. - Possible explanation Seasonal Flu went on holidays....

Yes, this coming "corona virus's" which includes common or garden "flu" season is just starting, so excess mortality 2020-21 will be intersting...


Attachment 165685

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Originally Posted by NavyDiver

odd! Most people I know who have had it knew with out the test. [bigwhistle]

Multiple countries are hiding it by not testing. Russia and a few others have dead people overflowing sadly. Hope they have a win in vaccine soon. Date is still several months way sadly

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Just for your (personal) illustration, work out the % of those you know (above) who are in, kindly put, a doubtful state of metabolic health...
those beyond "middle" age, especially if chubby or beer-gutted.

If I was a betting man, I'd wager over 75% of those who correctly self-diagnosed are Insulin-Resistant a.k.a. - Pre-diabetic or full-blown T2Diabetic.

Covid is thinning the herd by taking out the physically compromised, and T2 Diabetes is the REAL pandemic, followed by inadequate and inertia-bound Public Health (National) Systems, the US the worst example with a massive spend on "health" that does not reflect in their abysmall World Ranking.

I can't help but thinking we're getting it all backwards.... instead of spending squillions on chasing many vaccines of differing types and limited effectiveness, it would be better to work on public HEALTH education, as well as refining treatment protocols. There's more than a few cheap or old drugs which are more useful than Remdi$ivir ![bigsad]

And to be able to spend on prevention.... economies need to get going again, - ask any Victorian small business owner !

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Originally Posted by superquag

Just for your (personal) illustration, work out the % of those you know (above) who are in, kindly put, a doubtful state of metabolic health...
those beyond "middle" age, especially if chubby or beer-gutted.

If I was a betting man, I'd wager over 75% of those who correctly self-diagnosed are Insulin-Resistant a.k.a. - Pre-diabetic or full-blown T2Diabetic.

Covid is thinning the herd by taking out the physically compromised, and T2 Diabetes is the REAL pandemic, followed by inadequate and inertia-bound Public Health (National) Systems, the US the worst example with a massive spend on "health" that does not reflect in their abysmall World Ranking.

I can't help but thinking we're getting it all backwards.... instead of spending squillions on chasing many vaccines of differing types and limited effectiveness, it would be better to work on public HEALTH education, as well as refining treatment protocols. There's more than a few cheap or old drugs which are more useful than Remdi$ivir ![bigsad]

And to be able to spend on prevention.... economies need to get going again, - ask any Victorian small business owner !

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im blown away.

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Originally Posted by superquag

Agreed. - A far more truthful metric than the emotive word "Cases"... - tested "positive" on a PCR, days off at home in bed, or hospital, or ICU... Better yet are OLD (previous) numbers, such as this (UK) graph from the first quarter (week 13) of this year. - 27,xxx deaths from ALL respiratory diseases over previous 5 year, compared to this year of ALL respiratory disease PLUS 'covid' deaths... of 25,xxx deaths !!!! TWO thousand lives saved. Oops. - Possible explanation Seasonal Flu went on holidays....

Yes, this coming "corona virus's" which includes common or garden "flu" season is just starting, so excess mortality 2020-21 will be intersting...


Attachment 165685

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A much more likely explanation is that early measures intended to slow the spread of COVID-19 also reduced the spread of seasonal flu. That is exactly what you would expect to happen.
This more up to date graph shows that your graph has painted a misleading impression, either because it is simply out of date or because the authors cherry picked a period of time to mislead.

https://assets.weforum.org/editor/re...NGAYQxGMU.webp

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For example, at the highest peak, Spain had 155% more deaths in a week than usual, and the UK had 109% more, according to UK charitable body The Health Foundation.

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The ‘excess deaths’ measure helps more accurately estimate the total number of fatalities as a result of the coronavirus pandemic | World Economic Forum

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Originally Posted by superquag

Just for your (personal) illustration, work out the % of those you know (above) who are in, kindly put, a doubtful state of metabolic health...
those beyond "middle" age, especially if chubby or beer-gutted.

If I was a betting man, I'd wager over 75% of those who correctly self-diagnosed are Insulin-Resistant a.k.a. - Pre-diabetic or full-blown T2Diabetic.

Covid is thinning the herd by taking out the physically compromised, and T2 Diabetes is the REAL pandemic, followed by inadequate and inertia-bound Public Health (National) Systems, the US the worst example with a massive spend on "health" that does not reflect in their abysmall World Ranking.

I can't help but thinking we're getting it all backwards.... instead of spending squillions on chasing many vaccines of differing types and limited effectiveness, it would be better to work on public HEALTH education, as well as refining treatment protocols. There's more than a few cheap or old drugs which are more useful than Remdi$ivir ![bigsad]

And to be able to spend on prevention.... economies need to get going again, - ask any Victorian small business owner !

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8 people in Wales and 6 in the US i know personally. 1 is over weight. The rest are tough, fit and healthy. 4 had a week or so of flu like impacts. 3 had very mild symptoms. 2 have ongoing impacts from Covid19 a few of which were/are nasty. None are older then 55 with all but 4 well under 30. All of them have lost friends and neighbors to Covid19. Avoidance seems reasonable in my limited test space. I think Australia has done well and as long as we are careful should be able to enjoy events like last night. ( Well Done Tigers)

Fully agree re the US Me Me Me health system. One of my Welsh mates is involved with their NHS and a few yarns make my eyebrows rise at times[biggrin]

I have no issue with private health services at all. Basic and acute care should be available for all as it is here. I love Royal Melbourne Hospital for bolting me back together with steel plates and screws and a few pints of blood and Ramsay Health care for a month in a pool and gym[thumbsupbig]

On vaccines "“People are vaccinated one day, and the next day they have some bad medical event, and then they scratch their head and say, ‘Well, you know, I was fine until this happened,’” Dr. Gellin said." "Purely by chance, thousands of vaccinated people will have heart attacks, strokes and other illnesses shortly after the injections. Sorting out whether the vaccines had anything to do with their ailments will be a thorny problem,"

The several of the phase 3 test have removed well from random deaths and illness which thankful seem to have been on the placebo side of the tests. If and its still IF they work and have minimum or low level side effects we just might see some mid 2021. Hope so. I might be running by then.

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Originally Posted by NavyDiver

Hope so. I might be running by then.

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So might I - whilst waiting to have cartilage on my good knee trimmed (elective surgery cancelled twice now on the day before it was to be done) the surgical staple holding my bad knee together has decided to come out. I described it to my surgeon's secretary but I suspect that when they actually see it they will freak out. So, likely simultaneous arthroscopies on both knees ... should be fun.

I think from what I've read that there is not as much testing going on in the USA as would be considered desirable, so I doubt if it's right to blame extra testing for the record number of cases there.
If anything, there are probably a lot of undiagnosed cases because people are not getting tested, which seems foolish to me.
Flu cases are way down in this country, maybe around a quarter of normal, because of increased hand sanitation and social distancing, and I assume that has also happened in the USA.
So, if flu cases are way down, but excess deaths are way up, then something else must have caused those extra deaths, most likely Covid. So that means there are a lot of undiagnosed Covid deaths in the excess deaths figures.
Given there seem to be a lot of Americans who are determined to deny that Covid is real, it's likely many of the excess deaths are people who denied Covid was real, and died from Covid. Talk about denying reality until the bitter end.

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Originally Posted by NavyDiver

.........
The several of the phase 3 test have removed well from random deaths and illness which thankful seem to have been on the placebo side of the tests. If and its still IF they work and have minimum or low level side effects we just might see some mid 2021. Hope so. I might be running by then.

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Something worth thinking about - many will remember recently there was a death in the Oxford vaccine stage 3 test in Brazil. It as been confirmed that the death was of a test subject given the placebo, and that he actually died from covid-19. It has also been confirmed that he was a 28 year old doctor with no known health problems.

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Originally Posted by vnx205

A much more likely explanation is that early measures intended to slow the spread of COVID-19 also reduced the spread of seasonal flu. That is exactly what you would expect to happen.
This more up to date graph shows that your graph has painted a misleading impression, either because it is simply out of date or because the authors cherry picked a period of time to mislead.

https://assets.weforum.org/editor/re...NGAYQxGMU.webp


The ‘excess deaths’ measure helps more accurately estimate the total number of fatalities as a result of the coronavirus pandemic | World Economic Forum

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For a somewhat more up to date estimate

Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19, by Age and Race and Ethnicity — United States, January 26–October 3, 2020 | MMWR

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Originally Posted by DiscoMick

I think from what I've read that there is not as much testing going on in the USA as would be considered desirable, so I doubt if it's right to blame extra testing for the record number of cases there.
If anything, there are probably a lot of undiagnosed cases because people are not getting tested, which seems foolish to me.
Flu cases are way down in this country, maybe around a quarter of normal, because of increased hand sanitation and social distancing, and I assume that has also happened in the USA.
So, if flu cases are way down, but excess deaths are way up, then something else must have caused those extra deaths, most likely Covid. So that means there are a lot of undiagnosed Covid deaths in the excess deaths figures.
Given there seem to be a lot of Americans who are determined to deny that Covid is real, it's likely many of the excess deaths are people who denied Covid was real, and died from Covid. Talk about denying reality until the bitter end.

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You mean like?..... "I haven't got Covid I tell you......... Straight line.............................................. ........................................
Switch it all off Sister. T o D 1412. All agree? Yes Doctor. Ok lets wrap it up. I'll tell the rellies.