Thread: Corona Virus

Originally Posted by superquag

Good perspective. However, You can take useful steps re: a DVT on a long flight / drive / Train ride.
Patent medicines (aspirin) or herbals , fitness beforehand, compression socks, regular movement etc etc. My risk modified by My efforts. Or not. - My choice.
But a 'vaccine' ? - Nothing possible after being jabbed. Unknown mild - serious - fatal side effect ? That is the hesitancy.

I get the hesitation mate I really do. In the end the vaccine is the lesser of 2 evils really. It is that simple. We have largely been immune here compared to other countries due to isolation. But we will be exposed to Covid19 once our boarders open fully. And that means we need a herd immunity and that comes from a vaccine.

Worth accepting too the overwhelming accounts of the best medical and scientific minds about the known insidious effects of Covid 19 even on young otherwise healthy people and the reasonable fears that long term heart and lung conditions from Covid19 will be felt. Not with a high percentage but enough to be a real worry.

Cheers

Originally Posted by ozscott

I get the hesitation mate I really do. In the end the vaccine is the lesser of 2 evils really. It is that simple. We have largely been immune here compared to other countries due to isolation. But we will be exposed to Covid19 once our boarders open fully. And that means we need a herd immunity and that comes from a vaccine.

Worth accepting too the overwhelming accounts of the best medical and scientific minds about the known insidious effects of Covid 19 even on young otherwise healthy people and the reasonable fears that long term heart and lung conditions from Covid19 will be felt. Not with a high percentage but enough to be a real worry.

Cheers

Check the earlier version of the WHO.... where they allow 'herd immunity' to also come from (recovery) Natural infection. Latest WHO definition specifically limits 'Herd Immunity' to being a product of 'vaccination' ONLY. - ??? !

Speaking of Evil, and this from the Dutch RIVM - their "CDC". They've had enough deaths to get a handle on ages etc. These COVID figures include 2 to 6 serious underlying conditions, "co-morbidities"

For comparison, the Dutch allege a normal 'flu takes out an average of .....0.16%

Mortality of various virus:-

Ebola kills 50% with
Smallpox at 30%, and
SARS (SARS-Cov1) at 9.6%

But, SARS-C0v2 or 'COVID-19' is very much 'age-ist' and
under 20, forget it.
Up to 40 it's 0.0003% with
up to 60 on 0.0035%. (nearly 10x the 40 year olds...)

60 - 70 rates at 0.02%
Over 80 and you're history,,, 0.5%, but remember, you've got to have at least two co-morbidities. Otherwise you're in danger of Recovery.

More grist for the mill... Bare numbers, without the headlines.

The Leading Causes of Death in the US for 2020 | Cardiology | JAMA | JAMA Network - add to those Medical Mistakes...

Originally Posted by vnx205

I know that overseas travel is difficult at the moment, but when it resumes will you stay at home because the risk of a clot is so much greater than the risk of a clot from the AZ vaccine?

The risk needs to be kept in perspective.

So the answer to your question is that I am prepared to take the risk of about 4 in a million.

i think thats a good point, but why take a risk at all, when there is an alternative vaccine with lower risks.

What everyone seems to be forgetting is that in the trials of the AZ vaccine, the incident of blood clots in trial participants was nearly twice as many in the placebo group as the Az group.

So on that basic information and in relation to blood clots you are safer taking Az than not taking it .

Originally Posted by superquag

Check the earlier version of the WHO.... where they allow 'herd immunity' to also come from (recovery) Natural infection. Latest WHO definition specifically limits 'Herd Immunity' to being a product of 'vaccination' ONLY. - ??? !

Speaking of Evil, and this from the Dutch RIVM - their "CDC". They've had enough deaths to get a handle on ages etc. These COVID figures include 2 to 6 serious underlying conditions, "co-morbidities"

For comparison, the Dutch allege a normal 'flu takes out an average of .....0.16%

Mortality of various virus:-

Ebola kills 50% with
Smallpox at 30%, and
SARS (SARS-Cov1) at 9.6%

But, SARS-C0v2 or 'COVID-19' is very much 'age-ist' and
under 20, forget it.
Up to 40 it's 0.0003% with
up to 60 on 0.0035%. (nearly 10x the 40 year olds...)

60 - 70 rates at 0.02%
Over 80 and you're history,,, 0.5%, but remember, you've got to have at least two co-morbidities. Otherwise you're in danger of Recovery.

More grist for the mill... Bare numbers, without the headlines.

The Leading Causes of Death in the US for 2020 | Cardiology | JAMA | JAMA Network - add to those Medical Mistakes...

I don't know where those numbers come from, but looking at published Covid death rates worldwide, we see a pretty consistent case fatality rate of between one and three percent which is vastly different from the numbers you are quoting. For example, Australia has had about 29,000 cases and 909 deaths (3.1%), the UK 2.9%, USA 1.8%, Canada 2.1%.

Of these figures it is likely that Australia is the most accurate, because Australia has control of the pandemic, unlike most other countries, and there has been an absence of political pressure and chaos caused by overloaded medical facilities distorting reporting of the statistics.

The figures you quote above are incompatible with the excess death figures for the US in 2020.

Originally Posted by superquag

Check the earlier version of the WHO.... where they allow 'herd immunity' to also come from (recovery) Natural infection. Latest WHO definition specifically limits 'Herd Immunity' to being a product of 'vaccination' ONLY. - ??? !

Speaking of Evil, and this from the Dutch RIVM - their "CDC". They've had enough deaths to get a handle on ages etc. These COVID figures include 2 to 6 serious underlying conditions, "co-morbidities"

For comparison, the Dutch allege a normal 'flu takes out an average of .....0.16%

Mortality of various virus:-

Ebola kills 50% with
Smallpox at 30%, and
SARS (SARS-Cov1) at 9.6%

But, SARS-C0v2 or 'COVID-19' is very much 'age-ist' and
under 20, forget it.
Up to 40 it's 0.0003% with
up to 60 on 0.0035%. (nearly 10x the 40 year olds...)

60 - 70 rates at 0.02%
Over 80 and you're history,,, 0.5%, but remember, you've got to have at least two co-morbidities. Otherwise you're in danger of Recovery.

More grist for the mill... Bare numbers, without the headlines.

The Leading Causes of Death in the US for 2020 | Cardiology | JAMA | JAMA Network - add to those Medical Mistakes...

Couple of things. Firstly the total number of deaths is far more important than death rate. Because its so transmissible...that is the threat. Secondly, where do you get the figures you keep posting?

Cheers

Why the US approval of the AZ vaccine is taking so long. From the Smithsonian magazine. March 29, 2021.

Within 48 hours, AstraZeneca released its revised results with updated data. According to the statement, the vaccine has 76 percent efficacy at reducing symptomatic Covid-19 overall, and 85 percent efficacy in people 65 years old and older. A specific review of the 32,000 participants in the U.S. trial found no cases of the unusual blood clots that caused hesitation in Europe, per STAT News.




Why U.S. Approval of the AstraZeneca Covid-19 Vaccine Is Taking So Long | Smart News | Smithsonian Magazine

Originally Posted by vnx205

The risk of a blood clot from the AZ vaccine appears to be one in 250,000, or 0.0004%.
The risk of a blood clot for women of the contraceptive pill is one in 2,000 or 0.05%.
The risk of a blood clot on a long haul flight is one in 1,000 (or 0.1%)

I don't expect that you are on the pill, but how many women do you know who are going to stop taking the pill because the risk of a clot is many times greater than the risk of a clot from the AZ vaccine?

I know that overseas travel is difficult at the moment, but when it resumes will you stay at home because the risk of a clot is so much greater than the risk of a clot from the AZ vaccine?

The risk needs to be kept in perspective.

So the answer to your question is that I am prepared to take the risk of about 4 in a million.

I get it. But in the back of the mind is the fact that the flu vaccine, the pill and others have been around for a very long time, so any side effects are well known and documented by now. This AZ , like other COVID vaccines, have been hastily brought into service, without what I believe would be a proper safety net of time for any complications to be well understood. Now I've been injected with numerous vaccines for all sorts of diseases during my time in Military service. All of which had many, many years of development and use to fully realise the risk.


I know the Pfiser & AZ are all we have, and we have no choice but to take them if we want to be protected in this country. I also know Pfiser and AZ are only fully effective after two doses. None of us in Australia { excepting front line medical workers , aged care residents & workers , and our PM, [ noting not all of the above , with perhaps the exception of our PM, have had their second doses, why, some even haven't had their first dose yet. ]} none of us ATM are sure of getting the first dose before XMAS, let alone the second. I'm in the 1B group , over 70 with complications. If I get a first dose soon, will I get a second? There is no guarantee of getting a first any time soon, according to the centre which is doing the job. One dose is not fully effective, if the time between the first and second dose is longer than recommended, I understand we will need a booster. We can't even get a bloody first dose, what chance of a booster? And we have been told to be patient. It's easy for some one who has been vaccinated to tell people to be patient.

The USA , admittedly thru emergency powers have three vaccines that only require one dose. Any one of those vaccines would help clear up our backlog of vaccinations. Now we are told the risk is low , I'm prepared to take the risk with a one dose vaccine, even one distributed under emergency powers, over the risk of only one dose of our two dose vaccines , with no guarantee of a second dose. Our government should man up and admit they made a mistake , get a supply of the one dose, and vaccinate all of us, otherwise opening up our Nation and rebuilding our economy is just a fantasy. Anyway rant over.