Thread: Corona Virus

Double Post.

Originally Posted by Eevo

dear Victoria,
sorry, not sorry,
sincerely
South Australia

Peter Harcher's take on it:

PM’s complacency is infectious. It’s time he caught the quarantine fever

"South Australia’s Chief Health Officer, Nicola Spurrier, says that the state’s quarantine protocols were not breached ....... So the system worked perfectly, and protocols were observed, according to the SA government. The shutdown of Victoria for a week is all part of the smooth functioning of the SA hotel quarantine, apparently. Good try, team. It’s a debacle and today Victoria is paying for it."

I guess that from SA Health's point of view if the infections aren't in SA then the system was successful.

And how did it happen?

“On one occasion, Case B opened his room door to collect his meal, then 18 seconds later Case A opened his door to collect his meal,” according to the report from SA Health this week. “This was during the time Case B was infectious but prior to staff knowing.”

This seems to have been the critical moment where infection passed to Case A, who then went to Victoria, unwittingly spreading the virus as he went. Notably, SA Health claims that there were “adequate ventilation levels in the corridor” but that perhaps the “adequate ventilation” hadn’t had time to flush away the virus-laden air exhaled by Case B.

Clearly the ventilation in the corridor wasn't adequate ..... and as a result a city of 5 million is in lockdown.

Originally Posted by Arapiles

Peter Harcher's take on it:

PM’s complacency is infectious. It’s time he caught the quarantine fever

"South Australia’s Chief Health Officer, Nicola Spurrier, says that the state’s quarantine protocols were not breached ....... So the system worked perfectly, and protocols were observed, according to the SA government. The shutdown of Victoria for a week is all part of the smooth functioning of the SA hotel quarantine, apparently. Good try, team. It’s a debacle and today Victoria is paying for it."

I guess that from SA Health's point of view if the infections aren't in SA then the system was successful.

And how did it happen?

“On one occasion, Case B opened his room door to collect his meal, then 18 seconds later Case A opened his door to collect his meal,” according to the report from SA Health this week. “This was during the time Case B was infectious but prior to staff knowing.”

This seems to have been the critical moment where infection passed to Case A, who then went to Victoria, unwittingly spreading the virus as he went. Notably, SA Health claims that there were “adequate ventilation levels in the corridor” but that perhaps the “adequate ventilation” hadn’t had time to flush away the virus-laden air exhaled by Case B.

Clearly the ventilation in the corridor wasn't adequate ..... and as a result a city of 5 million is in lockdown.

Good ventilation is a bit of a double edged sword in some ways..


Where some older buildings & offices had a Central system with return air returning to a common Rtn Air grille& filters usually at the end of a corridor with the air exhausted from the rooms via Door relief Grilles, low down in the door.
When air was exhausted from all rooms on that corridor, the corridor was well ventilated because normally each well designed system used a Fresh Air make up damper connected to the outside air for supply. That was the "olde" method & a good one under normal circumstances. The Corridor was then well ventilated with some recycled air + fresh air..

Today, in many cases each room/suite has it's own self-contained & recirculated air system (can be ducted or High Wall Splits) & it is highly unlikely that it has it's own Fresh Air makeup, meaning air within those rooms does not get fresh air in to pressurise those rooms ie. Air in = air out. You may have noticed the proliferation of Balcony mounted Condensing units?

Used as a Quarantine Facility conditions are different.

It is reasonable to assume that much possibly contaminated recirced air is in those rooms. Sure, it would be heated & cooled & maybe more economical on running costs which was the initial plan as opposed to a Central Plant & gives the occupants a choice whether they use it or not, which if done on a Central Plant upsets the Air Balances.

Maybe some Room Air is extracted via Toilet & Bathroom fans but there is no guarantee it's Make Up air is cleansed or filtered as normal. Make up would probably come in via the corridor under the door or Rarely, a window. (they don't like windows opened for practical reasons) Usually filters on these self contained units are supposedly routinely cleaned on a regular basis by Maintenance Staff but these days that might not be occurring as it should.

I have found hotel rooms that IMHO have never, repeat never, been cleaned due to lack of access or slack staff & in some cases I have had to clean these filters myself when staying at these accommodations just to satisfy my own standards.

You'd have to wonder what bacteria those filters & duct work are retaining. So it was always a case of two folded Handkerchiefs over my gob just in case..

Unfortunately it always seems to come down to poor design, cost & crap Management to make sure these fan coils are properly maintained.


These days I can't imagine many Maintenance staff are prepared to enter these rooms willingly to do their work. Well not unless they are gowned up & wearing PPE. On a Central plant the filters are usually at a common point near the Fan coil Unit.

I also do wonder which responsible person had signed off of these premises after thoroughly & closely inspecting individual setups or were these decisions made without such an inspection & just taking the word of an employee of the establishment. Has happened.


Unless a dedicated supply air outlet is located in one far end of the corridor the corridor will get little air movement.


Certainly something has gone off the rails either in SA or Vic. or both, but I sincerely hope that can be stopped in it's tracks.

Originally Posted by 4bee

Good ventilation is a bit of a double edged sword in some ways ...... .

The Singaporeans were onto this early on - the busses they were using to transport people from the airport to quarantine had compartments with separate and independent air systems.

Originally Posted by 4bee

Good ventilation is a bit of a double edged sword in some ways.. Where some older buildings & offices had a Central system with return air returning to a common Rtn Air grille& filters usually at the end of a corridor with the air exhausted from the rooms via Door relief Grilles, low down in the door. When air was exhausted from all rooms on that corridor, the corridor was well ventilated because normally each well designed system used a Fresh Air make up damper connected to the outside air for supply. That was the "olde" method & a good one under normal circumstances. The Corridor was then well ventilated with some recycled air + fresh air.. Today, in many cases each room/suite has it's own self-contained & recirculated air system (can be ducted or High Wall Splits) & it is highly unlikely that it has it's own Fresh Air makeup, meaning air within those rooms does not get fresh air in to pressurise those rooms ie. Air in = air out. You may have noticed the proliferation of Balcony mounted Condensing units? Used as a Quarantine Facility conditions are different. It is reasonable to assume that much possibly contaminated recirced air is in those rooms. Sure, it would be heated & cooled & maybe more economical on running costs which was the initial plan as opposed to a Central Plant & gives the occupants a choice whether they use it or not, which if done on a Central Plant upsets the Air Balances. Maybe some Room Air is extracted via Toilet & Bathroom fans but there is no guarantee it's Make Up air is cleansed or filtered as normal. Make up would probably come in via the corridor under the door or Rarely, a window. (they don't like windows opened for practical reasons) Usually filters on these self contained units are supposedly routinely cleaned on a regular basis by Maintenance Staff but these days that might not be occurring as it should. I have found hotel rooms that IMHO have never, repeat never, been cleaned due to lack of access or slack staff & in some cases I have had to clean these filters myself when staying at these accommodations just to satisfy my own standards. You'd have to wonder what bacteria those filters & duct work are retaining. So it was always a case of two folded Handkerchiefs over my gob just in case.. Unfortunately it always seems to come down to poor design, cost & crap Management to make sure these fan coils are properly maintained. These days I can't imagine many Maintenance staff are prepared to enter these rooms willingly to do their work. Well not unless they are gowned up & wearing PPE. On a Central plant the filters are usually at a common point near the Fan coil Unit. I also do wonder which responsible person had signed off of these premises after thoroughly & closely inspecting individual setups or were these decisions made without such an inspection & just taking the word of an employee of the establishment. Has happened. Unless a dedicated supply air supply is located in one far end of the corridor the corridor will get little air movement. Certainly something has gone off the rails either in SA or Vic. or both, but I sincerely hope that can be stopped in it's tracks.

Edited 2:52pm Just checking on a few things, as you do. I see the Playford Hotel in it's hey day was previously the Grosvenor Hotel. In my time the Grosvenor had a Trane Centrifugal system installed connecting each room separately with Chilled Water therefore a Self Contained system in each room as above & probably NO Fresh Air makeup for rooms or Corridors. So if all that very expensive plant hasn't been replaced & it was new plant then I am not surprised there has been a problem. The Dining Room was on six (?) old Westinghouse Packaged Units but that may have been upgraded with the new Playford owners. They may have got the chop by now being something like 60 years old.

I just went to the Royal Exhibition Buildings and had a 5 minute wait to be seen. Was in and out, including the 15 minute wait after the shot, in under an hour.

As my kids would say, too easy.

They had plenty of Pfizer too, and judging from the numbers sitting in the 15 minute waiting area, it looked like they had more people getting that than the AZ.

Originally Posted by 4bee

Edited 2:52pm Just checking on a few things, as you do. I see the Playford Hotel in it's hey day was previously the Grosvenor Hotel. In my time the Grosvenor had a Trane Centrifugal system installed connecting each room separately with Chilled Water therefore a Self Contained system in each room as above & probably NO Fresh Air makeup for rooms or Corridors. So if all that very expensive plant hasn't been replaced & it was new plant then I am not surprised there has been a problem. The Dining Room was on six (?) old Westinghouse Packaged Units but that may have been upgraded with the new Playford owners. They may have got the chop by now being something like 60 years old.

Seriously, you should tell someone - know any journos?

Originally Posted by Arapiles

The Singaporeans were onto this early on - the busses they were using to transport people from the airport to quarantine had compartments with separate and independent air systems.

Singaporeans aren't stupid & there are some pretty wised up people on staffs, M & F. I recall something about that method in transporting folk but it seemed to fade away. So, Sing.1 Oz nil. I don't suppose anyone in Canberra or elsewhere, wondered why they were doing that or bothered to find out. EDIT. Only the Late Max Fatchen. He was good for a laugh each weekend on how he saw life on the farm.. Too many years have gone by now & it must be probably 50 years back. & probably most of the health dept weren't even born then. Except the Chief Health Officer & she still looks 24 & gorgeous.


No Cookies | The Advertiser