Which is better Off Road a D3/4 or a late model Defender? ... Puma 110

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Originally Posted by LandyAndy

Here we go try this in a Defender.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puaPTmxwwhg

OH,they did!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivlz6jRWmfg
Andrew

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Ok Frantic my apologies for taking so long to address your post, I accept one can't go to a glazier and get him to cut a window for a D3/4.

But so far none of the Defender mob have even acknowledged these video clips that Andy put up that show a RR and a D3 walking up and down that hill without a bother.
I bet the poor Defender driver didn't feel to good after bouncing backwards down that hill, lucky man I reckon that he did not roll it, having seen what happens to a Defenders roof after it rolls it is never pretty especially for those inside. I bet after thinking about it he didn't try twice.

So the Defender wins the 'glaziers test' and I guess the D3/4 wins the 'able to climb up a incredibly steep hill in total control and then turn around and drive back down test'. ... ;)

Why don't some of you Defender guys watch some of the Misadventure 4WD UTube videos to get true picture of what D4's, RRS's, Defenders, D1's and 2's and other assorted cars can do compared with each other in extreme off road situations. You all seem to just assume they are no good with no actual evidence.


As far as articulation is concerned, I once did the car ramp on opposite corners trick to test the difference between the articulation of my D4 and my son's lifted D1. I was quite surprised that the D4 had all 4 wheels on the ground but the live axle D1 had one wheel about 25mm off the ground. In fact he had trouble driving up onto the ramps because he was losing traction on the two diagonal wheels that were close to leaving the ground and he only had open diffs. No such trouble in the D4.


All this to say that the D4 has very good articulation in low range and probably more than any other independently suspended 4WD's short of a military HumVee.

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Originally Posted by TerryO

But so far none of the Defender mob have even acknowledged these video clips that Andy put up that show a RR and a D3 walking up and down that hill without a bother.

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Probably because a Youtube vid of someone cocking up proves nothing ? ;)

[edit] and dare I suggest a Tdci would've walked up there, that Deefer was a TD5 and a Tdci (meeting the criteria of this comparison) has more torque than a stock TD5 and it sports that excellent low/low that my Tdi (or any TD5) only matches with the Maxi Drive low range I installed.

Attachment 104376
Lifted the D4 [emoji51]
At least I can still lower it to get in the garage [emoji16]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKj8ODeIAv0[/ame]
Tdci traction control doing its job well it seems.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plOMSOpreSg[/ame]
So the 90 is capable by the same logic... which has the crutch of a shorter wheel base.

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Originally Posted by rick130

Probably because a Youtube vid of someone cocking up proves nothing ? ;)

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No, you've got the wrong videos. You watch 4WD Action to see people cocking up!!

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Originally Posted by Meken

Attachment 104376
Lifted the D4 [emoji51]
At least I can still lower it to get in the garage [emoji16]

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But when you lift it you reduce droop so limit your articulation. ;)

The same thing applies when most people lift a live axle 4WD. (unless you use longer dampers and relocate mounts, etc.)

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Originally Posted by gghaggis

Hmm - I was involved to some extent with Glenno's D4 build. When I saw the first "Low Range" episode and how the D4 was driven, I offered him a copy of my booklet for free. He candidly admits it took a while for him to digest the info and put it into practice. "Milo" is far from a "stock" 4x4 and I doubt there is an original part on it.

Methinks you're clutching at straws with this one.

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Compared to the d4 Milo is old school technology, regardless of how much of Milo is original or not. The point im trying to make is that you dont have to have NASA style technology to have a capable 4wd. Earlier in the posts i listed 11 points as to why the defender is a better off road vehicle. Take those eleven points and make an argument either for and against them.
The topic is offorad capability and i believe that a defender offers the simplest yet most capable 4wd ability in standard form with the potential for even greater capabilty with onyl a few mods compared to the disco limited space for improvement due to its fancy nature.

And as for the engine in the d4 offereing power like a rocketship similar to "star ship Enterprise" ,this beleive it or not is not a positive in many off road situations. The only situation i can think of is long sandy hills for example. 4wding is not about power but about keeping things as slow as possible and as fast as necessary. What you want is low down torque which spreads over the power curve. Our truck and dogs could be powered by 700hp scanias but no one uses them because contrary to popular belief on this website whats important is enough power to do the job to maintain reliability for as long as possible. You see too much power and torque equals mechanical failure. The disco is in my opinion the "scania" of 4wds. It reads well on paper: safe, comfortable, powerful, and full of fancy gadgets but id still rather pay for a kenworth with 150hp less power and know that it will haul all day everyday for many years without any dramas. The defender is built on these principles and that's why its often referred to as a truck. Its simplicity makes it ideal for 4wding.

Its cross over axle articulation under full flex offers better body clearance than the disco, its got the better angles of approach/exit etc, better fuel economy, bigger cargo area, bigger tyres that can actually be let down to suit different terrains properly (not 19 inch rims with stupid tyres), the spare tyre is located in a better position, everything can easily be replaced including the simple windscreen, long range tanks are easily installed, water tanks easily installed, its got a heavier pay load, better centre of gravity, the steering although vague on road makes so much sense offraod with the feedback allowing for precise wheel placement..........all i hear from the disco guys is "4wd of the year 9 years in a row"....lol....what a joke.
Give me facts, facts that prove different to the points listed above. Whether you like to admit it or not those things are important when touring/4wding. Its about simplicity, adaptability, capabilty and the defender has stood the test of time.

Give me facts, facts that prove different to the points listed above. Whether you like to admit it or not those things are important when touring/4wding. Its about simplicity, adaptability, capabilty and the defender has stood the test of time.[/QUOTE]

So well it's discontinued ....

Max torque @ 2000rpm for both cars
D4 combined 8l/100 Defer 110 - 11l/100
D4 sdv6 600Nm 2.5t
110 360Nm 2t
Numbers don't make sense